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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 47 38.84%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 31.40%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 15.70%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 7.44%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.65%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.65%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.83%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.65%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-07, 00:46   Link #121
mAc Chaos
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Pretty much all mages who follow their creed are amoral and only focused on their research.
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Old 2012-05-07, 00:57   Link #122
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
Been a lurker here for a while now....anyway

Great ep although I realized something completely unrelated to kiritsugu, I've never played the F/SN VN or read the F/Z novels but are most mages just as obssessed about reaching the Root as tokiomi and kiritsugu's father that they would do morally questionable things to get there?
other then a few exceptions, Yes the majority of mages are that obsessed with reaching the Root. Tokiomi is actually one of the nicer ones who goes about it. If you look at the list of Dead Ancestors (27 most powerful vampire in naurervse, the majority were mages).

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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
Pretty much all mages who follow their creed are amoral and only focused on their research.
they prefer to call it pushing the limit of human understanding.
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Old 2012-05-07, 01:33   Link #123
matapat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Even if the character's narration didn't carry over, ufotable have done what they can with the medium and have often managed to convey the character's internal strife and development through clever and effective visual keys. Which, granted, may have been overlooked by some, as well as forgotten by others as a result of the seasonal break between the two halves of the series, but the development is still there. Subtle character development is a fine art, as well as one not often seen in anime, and I would say Kiritsugu has been a very good example of it. Now, that's not to say this episode didn't help deepen his character, but it certainly wasn't necessary to "make" him.
Yeah, I agree the subtle nuances from the first season did a lot as well, but something more direct like this is nice too. All the screen time other characters get sometimes makes you forget Kiritsugu is supposed to be the main character, which until this episode was sometimes lost due to the lack of narration, even though I prefer it this way.
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Old 2012-05-07, 07:32   Link #124
Mitsu Aoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
Been a lurker here for a while now....anyway

Great ep although I realized something completely unrelated to kiritsugu, I've never played the F/SN VN or read the F/Z novels but are most mages just as obssessed about reaching the Root as tokiomi and kiritsugu's father that they would do morally questionable things to get there?


The decision to turn your back on becoming a mage like what Kariya did becomes more appealing the more I watch F/Z.


On a completely unrelated note was the country that island was in ever mentioned in the LN? The word "alimango" happens to be a word for crab in my country (I live in the Philippines)
http://travelingluck.com/Asia/Philip...go+Island.html


Google much. And there are only few South East Asian countries that has Christianity and Basketball influence. Yes those old trucks.
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Old 2012-05-07, 07:35   Link #125
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Though, Emiya did say "it's a failure", so there's a high chance Shirley didn't make it to be a real Dead Apostle and was merely the Dead after all.
Either way she is dead.
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Old 2012-05-07, 10:04   Link #126
Raviel
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Originally Posted by Mitsu Aoi View Post
http://travelingluck.com/Asia/Philip...go+Island.html


Google much. And there are only few South East Asian countries that has Christianity and Basketball influence. Yes those old trucks.
I see, needed some confirmation from someone else ehehe...

If that is the case I can see a bit of fridge brilliance as to why the church was able to respond so fast despite the island looking relatively remote
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Old 2012-05-07, 10:42   Link #127
Ithekro
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Well considering it is the same universe, go with the Tsukihime option.
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Old 2012-05-07, 21:05   Link #128
DragoZERO
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Posted this in the image thread but since it's on topic and so good, I thought I'd share it here as well.


Source: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=27113730


Source: http://seiga.nicovideo.jp/seiga/im2032907
TL:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
--yes, to change the world.

If it's you, you can do it.

I guarantee it.
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Last edited by DragoZERO; 2012-05-07 at 21:46.
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Old 2012-05-07, 23:29   Link #129
jeroz
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Quote:
--yes, to change the world.

If it's you, you can do it.

I guarantee it.
I just wonder are we underestimating the impact those lines had on little Kerry. The belief that Shirley instilled into him that he has the capability to make a difference, compounded with his guilt of previous hesitation, is probably the reason he took the rash action. If anything, his actions here are best be categorised as "misguided". Had Shirley not giving him the confidence prior to this he probably wouldn't feel as though he had to be the one making the difference. One could only imagine the guilt he suffers after seeing the aftermath of his moment of weakness. He had to made up for his past mistake, and his sense of justice overcomes the love for a family member.

Yes the anime didn't show enough emotion nor his internal turmoil while shooting, and I would love to see some flashbacks during the scene, but that one scene with his frail smile demonstrated how broken he is afterwards. Does he regret killing his own father afterwards? It's still too soon to tell since there are more to come in terms of flashbacks.

It's not just "herp derp you make my girlfriend dead so I have to shoot you". A lot has been laid out in this episode in terms of Kiritsugu's twisted sense of heroism, and I expect more to come in future episodes.
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Old 2012-05-07, 23:46   Link #130
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I think Emiya is going to suffer "batman Syndrome". The people around him may idolize him as one of them but then they realize he is just some 1% rich kid playing with fancy gadgets.
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Old 2012-05-07, 23:48   Link #131
Archer
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
Yes the anime didn't show enough emotion nor his internal turmoil while shooting, and I would love to see some flashbacks during the scene, but that one scene with his frail smile demonstrated how broken he is afterwards. Does he regret killing his own father afterwards? It's still too soon to tell since there are more to come in terms of flashbacks.
The most interesting aspect of that scene isn't what's being shown, it's what wasn't shown. Right before Kiritsugu stabs his father up to when Kiritsugu starts pulling the trigger on the gun, we do not see his face at all. There was an intentional effort on hiding that until after he finished stabbing him. It's only when he starts shooting him that you see his blank face.

The reaction that Kiritsugu had when he first made his decision is incredibly ambiguous, which makes it all the more interesting to see if (when?) it is revealed.
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Old 2012-05-07, 23:57   Link #132
jeroz
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Just realised something. Compare with Madoka Magica

Spoiler for spoilers for the series:

However Kiritsugu wasn't able to muster the strength to do so, and his path becomes a lot more torturous. He has no one to respond to, he cannot pay back the debt he owes, and his life becomes about salvaging what's left of him, whether it be clinging on to his empty ideals or the fact that he's still alive. Did he treat Shirley's words as promises? How much of an impact did those lines have on him?

Again, I probably need the full picture before I can make a proper assessment. We know that he turned out bad after his time with his teacher, and I just want to know what happened there.
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Old 2012-05-08, 00:07   Link #133
erneiz_hyde
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If Kiritsugu is feeling guilt over not killing Shirley, I can see he still hasn't completely lost "the boy" in him. Actually, I think I can now see him as one big boy regardless even with all the pragmatism. An angry and frustrated big boy. Maybe this is what made Iri drawn to him...

Btw it got me thinking. The Executioner of course would want Emiya dead, but what about the Mage's Association? Did they want him dead too? Wouldn't his research regarded as valuable by them? Or is research regarding Dead Apostles regarded taboo even among Mage's Association?

Speaking of which, Kiritsugu didn't inherit the Emiya magic crest, did he?
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Old 2012-05-08, 00:14   Link #134
Seitsuki
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Since I doubt it'll ever be covered by the anime:

Spoiler for from BT:
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Old 2012-05-08, 01:05   Link #135
LunarMoon
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Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Since I doubt it'll ever be covered by the anime:

Spoiler for from BT:
If they covered the explanation for the origin bullet, then I don't see why they wouldn't cover that, especially if they end up dedicating the entirety of episode 19 to the second half of the flashback.
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Old 2012-05-08, 09:17   Link #136
Eragon
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Well, this was a good episode. Really great execution to show the downfall of Kiritsugu. The only thing I'm not happy about is the fact that Shirley drank that potion of her own free will. Her admiration for Noritaka's work seems, imo, hardly enough reason. It would have been better if Noritaka had actually been using her as a guinea pig.
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Old 2012-05-08, 10:41   Link #137
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
I just wonder are we underestimating the impact those lines had on little Kerry. The belief that Shirley instilled into him that he has the capability to make a difference, compounded with his guilt of previous hesitation, is probably the reason he took the rash action. If anything, his actions here are best be categorised as "misguided". Had Shirley not giving him the confidence prior to this he probably wouldn't feel as though he had to be the one making the difference. One could only imagine the guilt he suffers after seeing the aftermath of his moment of weakness. He had to made up for his past mistake, and his sense of justice overcomes the love for a family member.

Yes the anime didn't show enough emotion nor his internal turmoil while shooting, and I would love to see some flashbacks during the scene, but that one scene with his frail smile demonstrated how broken he is afterwards. Does he regret killing his own father afterwards? It's still too soon to tell since there are more to come in terms of flashbacks.

It's not just "herp derp you make my girlfriend dead so I have to shoot you". A lot has been laid out in this episode in terms of Kiritsugu's twisted sense of heroism, and I expect more to come in future episodes.
I bet some people are underestimating it. It is hard to illustrate something like this with no narrator. But, I think they did a good job. You can see that Shirley believed in him the same way Iri does. The similarities between Shirley and Iri is what is going to make summoning the grail so painful for Kiritsugu. I can't talk about it yet but at the end of the series I'll spell out all of the tragedies related to Kiritsugu.

Having someone like Nasu come up with the premise and Urobuchi spelling it out... Urobuchi really was the perfect person to write Zero. No one else could have done it.
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Old 2012-05-08, 13:14   Link #138
Xagzan
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All I can say after that is, sweet hell, someone give that kid a hug
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Old 2012-05-08, 20:25   Link #139
jeroz
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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Well, this was a good episode. Really great execution to show the downfall of Kiritsugu. The only thing I'm not happy about is the fact that Shirley drank that potion of her own free will. Her admiration for Noritaka's work seems, imo, hardly enough reason. It would have been better if Noritaka had actually been using her as a guinea pig.
That's the greatest part about the tragedy in this episode. There's no clear villains, it's just a chain of mistakes and conflicting ideals. You can't hate on anyone, but instead lament at what could've been.

I doubt Shirley knows what that drug actually do, she probably think it's something that will be beneficial to the human body, an elixir. Though just like any other medicine if you don't get the dose and component correct you can still kill yourself with anything, let along something that haven't even been animal tested. As smart as she is, I doubt she understood the complications.
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Old 2012-05-08, 22:23   Link #140
Kaiba
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That's the greatest part about the tragedy in this episode. There's no clear villains, it's just a chain of mistakes and conflicting ideals. You can't hate on anyone, but instead lament at what could've been.

I doubt Shirley knows what that drug actually do, she probably think it's something that will be beneficial to the human body, an elixir. Though just like any other medicine if you don't get the dose and component correct you can still kill yourself with anything, let along something that haven't even been animal tested. As smart as she is, I doubt she understood the complications.
Well, if I'm not wrong, Shirley would be capable of surpassing the limits of humanity after drinking that thing and possible live for a far longer time. There's... just a few side effects that are a tiny problem.
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