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Old 2012-05-08, 03:47   Link #41
sky black swordman
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
sky black swordman @From what we know about Ise from all this vol . I dubt he would act like you say. Also ,i think Rias show more than one time how much she care about ise. Hell from vol 2 she totally fall for him.I think the Rias(and that can be say for the other as well) make pretty clear in this vol what they think about Ise and that they not like/care about him because the Sg but because who he is.
About the marriage thing i agree with NoirX and the other that say like him. Sirzechs don't want that the marriage happen, but he can't do anything at that time and he know that no one in the gremory group can do anything. That's why,when he see how Ise was determined he chose to trust him for Rias sake. I think Graifya word when she give the seal with the griffon inside to Ise where clear enough about this. Also we know pretty well what he think about Ise now ...Sirzechs see Ise a his own little brother.
Maybe you guys are right on Sirzechs I will leave it at that.
And for the other thing in vol 1 taking in to consideration what you said and Issei's character your right he would never say this .
But Q's is what if he did?

I am not saying she did not care about him or anything but it looks like to me she from what I saw in the anime Rias only took an interest in Ise because she saw something in him or gave her some sort of feeling. The SG perhaps?

So after Ise died at Yuma's hand she appeared and tried to revive ise as devil servent and learned she was right about Ise being special because she needed 8 pawn pieces to revive him.
So Rias originally made him her servent and revived him because of his SG.
Of course after this their relationship changes as she gets to know him and what he does for her.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-08 at 04:25. Reason: forgot add other things.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:09   Link #42
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sky black swordman@ I don't think that was the case. You think was the Sg ,but from both anime and Ln they give me the feeling that was something else that attract one to the other.But this is what i think from what I read/watch . Also it 's pretty hard answer you question because if Ise would do that,at that time would be another Ise and not the Ise that we know.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:13   Link #43
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sky black swordman@ I don't think that was the case. You think was the Sg ,but from both anime and Ln they give me the feeling that was something else that attract one to the other.But this is what i think from what I read/watch . Also it 's pretty hard answer you question because if Ise would do that,at that time would be another Ise and not the Ise that we know.
True I will drop it because Issei would not be Issei if he did that.
And are proably right about the whole attract one to the other thing this LN also is about romance.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-08 at 04:33.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:40   Link #44
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Retaining to kiba's cut arm.

Is it going to be another case like Saraog in vol 10?
It's going to hinder his movements for awhile, not even a Pheonix tear can completely heal it right?

I still don't like how ascalon = 1 mutated piece.
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:16   Link #45
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@ Soji and sky...(too long to type) Rias' main reason for reviving Ise is because she noticed that she had to use 8 pawn piece to revive him as a devil, she noticed that Ise had BG later on. The romantic feeling can't be used as reason for reviving because before Vol.2 it still can be questioned(whether its real love or just high affection for something precious)

@Jellal Kiba's arm should be fixable since the Phoenix Tear only heals wound that the potion has contact with so it didn't heal the arm instead only close the wound. If he wants to recombined his arm again, then he needs to wield his arm like what Cao Cao did in Vol.9
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Last edited by NoirX; 2012-05-08 at 07:38. Reason: Correcting explanation thx to sky
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:43   Link #46
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Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
@ Soji and sky...(too long to type) Rias' main reason for reviving Ise is because she noticed that she had to use 8 pawn piece to revive him as a devil, she noticed that Ise had BG later on. The romactic feeling can't be used as reason for reviving because before Vol.2 it still can be questioned(whether its real love or just high affection for something precious)

@Jellal Kiba's arm should be fixable since the Phoenix Tear only heals wound that the potion has contact with so it didn't heal the arm instead only close the wound. If he wants to recombined his arm again, then he needs to wield his arm like what Cao Cao did in Vol.11
Yeah it is just like I said in my previous post. She knew during the reviving ritual or supected Ise had a strong SG because she could not use the other pieces she to revive or they where not enough to revive him.
And like you said later learned that the SG was one of the Thirteen Longinus The Boosted Gear.

So like I said before Rias originally made him her servent and revived him because of his SG.

Oh and it was not in vol 11 that Cao Cao did that but in volume 9 during his first one on one with Issei.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-08 at 06:56.
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:43   Link #47
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NoirX @I don't say that the reason was love,i agree with you here. But like you say in this line
Quote:
The romactic feeling can't be used as reason for reviving because before Vol.2 it still can be questioned(whether its real love or just high affection for something precious)
Something was there,we just dont know what.
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Old 2012-05-08, 08:34   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Jellal View Post
Retaining to kiba's cut arm.

Is it going to be another case like Saraog in vol 10?
It's going to hinder his movements for awhile, not even a Pheonix tear can completely heal it right?

I still don't like how ascalon = 1 mutated piece.
Twilight Healing > Phoenix Tears. Still, it most likely would be a bit of a hindrance to use that arm for a while.

We don't know that Ascalon was a mutant piece, we just know it was one pawn. Now if you're saying a mutant piece wasn't strong enough, remember mutant pawns are at least 8 pawn's worth.

As for why Rias revived Issei as a devil in the first place?

It looks like a whim, but there are several factors.

1.) She's been watching him for a while, so she knows what kind of guy he is, and how loyal he is to his friends and family.

2.) There is SOMETHING about him that the Fallen Angels (at that time an enemy faction) considered a threat, so it would be good for the Devils to possess that. (She did not know at the time that she would be getting Ddraig.)

3.) His desire for her was so strong that she was summoned personally, a subordinate would not do. That seriously goes against all protocol, and demanded further investigation, but if he died, that would be impossible.

Lastly, I suspect that Rias gave Issei unlimited viewing privileges of her body because she knew that that more than anything else would win his undying loyalty. She, of course, was absolutely correct.

It really helps that the Gremory clan treats its servants well. As for those servants who rebelled in Vol 12, remember, the Gremory and Sitri clans are exceptions. Those servants were most likely treated quite badly and always reminded that they are just "trash" except for their Sacred Gears, and when the opportunity arose to rebel, they did.
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Old 2012-05-08, 10:21   Link #49
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It really helps that the Gremory clan treats its servants well. As for those servants who rebelled in Vol 12, remember, the Gremory and Sitri clans are exceptions. Those servants were most likely treated quite badly and always reminded that they are just "trash" except for their Sacred Gears, and when the opportunity arose to rebel, they did.
I think n0m@n implied somewhere in his summary that the reason some reborn devils rebelled were not only because they were treated badly, but also because some of them were reborn against their will because they had Sacred Gears since birth (I could be wrong).

Since we are talking about Rias reviving Ise in Vol. 1, how did Rias know that she couldn't use Bishop / Rook / Knight on Ise? Do high-class devils get some device measuring a person's worth in Evil Pieces along with their chess set? Or is it pure instinct?
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Old 2012-05-08, 10:43   Link #50
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Awrya@
Rook = 5 pawns
Knight = Bishop = 3 pawns
Ise needs 8 pawns, it's mathematically impossible use a knight or a bishop or a rook on him.
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Old 2012-05-08, 10:47   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
I think n0m@n implied somewhere in his summary that the reason some reborn devils rebelled were not only because they were treated badly, but also because some of them were reborn against their will because they had Sacred Gears since birth (I could be wrong).

Since we are talking about Rias reviving Ise in Vol. 1, how did Rias know that she couldn't use Bishop / Rook / Knight on Ise? Do high-class devils get some device measuring a person's worth in Evil Pieces along with their chess set? Or is it pure instinct?
Can't say instinct for sure, its more like compatibility. You just know the exact value of the person that you intent to reincarnate
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:01   Link #52
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Rias explains it to Ise in volume 1:

“When I was trying to reincarnate you, the only pieces I had left were 1 Knight, 1 Rook, 1 Bishop and 8 Pawns. To make you into my servant, I could only use all 8 pieces of Pawn. The other pieces didn’t have the power to reincarnate you."

Last edited by Kutra; 2012-05-08 at 11:39.
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:29   Link #53
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@Kutra Rias explains it which is why i said she just know the value(not instinct)
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:44   Link #54
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Corrected

I know you're right, but the Rias' answer was more complete.
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Old 2012-05-08, 12:33   Link #55
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@Kutra I know that Rias used all 8 pawns to revive him, but I tried to focus more on the fact that she knew Ise couldn't be revived with any other pieces; not about mixing pieces.

@NoirX Is that stated in the novel because I can't remember reading it?
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Old 2012-05-08, 14:00   Link #56
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Awrya@ Well she do the same with Asia. She use bishop without thinking too much from what i remember.
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Old 2012-05-08, 15:19   Link #57
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Rias already knows that Asia has the Twilight Healing Sacred Gear. She will be documented about.
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Old 2012-05-08, 21:59   Link #58
sky black swordman
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Azure-Priest Like I said before in my other post's it is as I said before.

And on the " As for why Rias revived Issei as a devil in the first place? It looks like a whim, but there are several factors."

If we use what we saw in the anime tells us more that LN did not LN only implied it some what . It shows us Rias felt something or sense sonething more then likely the SG or the Dragon sleeping in him.

On 1 the first part is right but the second part is not.

On 2 Is right. His connection with fallen angel said something about him after at he time he was a normal human so why a falllen angel be around him or with him.

On 3 thats right. but its more like he lust after her breast's as he was dying. Remmember at the time he was in love with yuma and even thought about marrying her if possible in the future. and even though she killed him he still at that time loved her. So he summoned her because of his lust and desire for her breast and body.

And on the lastly part I think you maybe right. rias may have manipulate his feelings and emotions to make him loyal to her.

Awrya on where that line is vol 1 its in new life.

On Asia being revived yeah. It is as Kutra said Rias already knew about the SG and what it can do so she wanted it .

On that subject I wonder if that was the only reason Rias revived Asia I mean if you think about what Azure-Priest posted on the "lastly part" I think her reviving Asia may have solidified Issei's loyalty and affections toward her.

Think about it at the time Asia was more important to him and cared about her more then Rias and the group. He had very little or no loyaly toward her or her group at all. He shows this by talking back to Rias.
He even said to Rias face to let him out of the group so he can go save Asia even though he knew he was not strong enough to save Asia and was likely to die in the attempt but was more then ready to die to try and save her. His loyalty was toward his friend Asia then his master Rias.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-09 at 00:53.
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Old 2012-05-09, 05:33   Link #59
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sky black swordman@ Wait ...slow down here. Why you soo death set to make Rias a manipulative girl?.We know pretty well why she don't want ise do go there and also why she bring asia back to life.Honestly i don't really know why you try to make both ise and rias what they are not. If you think Rias is this kind of character you really need to re-read the whole ln. Because seem to me we see a different character.
Also i was sure we already agree that not was because the SG and Ddraig that she bring him back to life.And we back to square one? Really it seems you are looking for thing that are not here.
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Old 2012-05-09, 06:00   Link #60
sky black swordman
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sky black swordman@ Wait ...slow down here. Why you soo death set to make Rias a manipulative girl?.We know pretty well why she don't want ise do go there and also why she bring asia back to life.Honestly i don't really know why you try to make both ise and rias what they are not. If you think Rias is this kind of character you really need to re-read the whole ln. Because seem to me we see a different character.
Also i was sure we already agree that not was because the SG and Ddraig that she bring him back to life.And we back to square one? Really it seems you are looking for thing that are not here.
I know Sorry about that Soji. I will drop it because I know Rias and Issei Characters well and I know that I try to make both ise and rias what they are not and looking for things that are not there sorry about that. I will reflect on this soji.
And no I dont need to Re read the whole LN I know.
I know Ise is not like that .
And I know Rias is not like that and she is not a a manipulative girl.

The only time when she look like she could was in vol 7 with Ross but then that show us how good she is at buying someone off or bribing someone and may also show us she may have a promising career as sales woman.

Well then on to a new topic then. has anybody got one?
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-09 at 06:24.
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