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Old 2012-04-28, 04:18   Link #101
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagi View Post
I'm just waiting for FFXIV to go f2p, and follow the example of Star Ocean Online 2.
I don't think this will happen. FFXI is still subscription-based. I don't think it's in Squeenix's nature to give anything away for free.
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Old 2012-04-28, 04:26   Link #102
Sagi
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I don't think this will happen. FFXI is still subscription-based. I don't think it's in Squeenix's nature to give anything away for free.
It could always happened, I mean FFIV is such a flop commercially.
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Old 2012-04-28, 09:46   Link #103
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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
The F2P business is the next boom. Some mid-tier AAA studios are exclusively F2P now (Petroglyth Games, Gas Powered Games, Wargaming.net, Splash Damage), and more will certainly follow given the promise of stable income, large profits, and ample investment from the outside. Recently, console productions have been greenlit, so the model won't be exclusive to PCs.

From a gamer's perspective, F2P may be a double edged sword. On one hand, the barrier to entry is low, making it a great model for those on a limited budget. Players can spend as much or as little as they want, and the whole game can be freely sampled from the get-go Additionally, genres (i.e. mech shooter, flight sim, strategy game) and brands that were once difficult to pitch are returning.

However, the benefits come at the expense of single-player content and balanced design. A game also dies once the service dies (although to be fair, this now affects packaged software, such as Diablo III and SimCity). Given the effort that goes into finding/restoring lost films and making old games playable on new hardware, archivists are sure to be annoyed.

I'd imagine that in a year or two, we'll see a more segmented industry, with indie, mobile (generally known for casual games, but this is changing), self-contained AAA, and F2P AAA games all targeting the hardcore fan.
Yep, publisher, developer and consumer are a lot more open toward the F2P business model these days especially MMOs.

Unfortunately, Japanese corporation is quite resistant to changes so I highly doubt Square Enix will adopt the new model anytime soon. Personally, i felt the Square Enix have lost it's brand power these days compare to Blizzard and Bioware. It's going to be uphill battle for subscriber unless they toss in a better deal.

As for dead games, yeah.. it's a problem that no one have an answer for as of yet. Maybe they could release server source code at later dates? But I highly doubt many big company will do that. It might be one of those issues that people just got used after awhile.
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Old 2012-04-28, 11:21   Link #104
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I sure hope japanese corps don't adobt the f2p model.
If the other asian f2p games are anything to go by, they would first release for the domestic market and english translations would come years later, if at all.
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Old 2012-04-28, 20:29   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
What do you think of the costs of subscriptions, DLC, expansions, and other expenses of playing modern video games? Comments are open to any and all costs of being a gamer: console, pc, mmo, etc.

Here's some topics to get people started:

1. Are MMO subscription fees outdated?
2. Is it fair to charge beyond the initial purchase to unlock content already on the disk?
3. Is it fair to pay full retail cost for a digital copy of a game?
4. Are virtual console titles (like old NES games) over priced?
5. Should virtual content be locked to account instead of device?

Note that you don't have to answer all of these at once. They're just ideas to get people talking. Feel free to bring up other stuff as long as it's related to the topic.
1) Don't even bother with pay to play
2) Not unless it's a MASSIVE amount of content like enough for an expansion. If they want to add tid bits, it should be free.
3) Nope. They don't give you physical product. If you want one, you have to provide your own disc. Hell, you have to use your own internet connection to get the product as well, and that costs money for some people per gigabit. Fortunately they offer discounts a plenty on platforms like Steam.
4) I suppose it depends on if you consider there to be minimum price for them, but I'd say yes, since you don't get a physical copy either.
5) Yes (isn't this the current norm?)

I feel I should mention that I think there are worthwhile advantages that digital distribution offers (if your disc is f'd, you can still get a copy without paying for it again, connection pending). But I don't know if they necessarily outweigh my dislikes of it (I'm the guy that still prefers books over e-books).
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Old 2012-05-07, 17:09   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
1. Are MMO subscription fees outdated?
2. Is it fair to charge beyond the initial purchase to unlock content already on the disk?
3. Is it fair to pay full retail cost for a digital copy of a game?
4. Are virtual console titles (like old NES games) over priced?
5. Should virtual content be locked to account instead of device?
1. No. F2P is just another take, and just for the record it's a more "user friendly" and "accessible model" but at the same time there is NO "good" F2P model. The F2P model is essentially player exploitation. The best (for the consumer) models are the ones that leverage on F2P for their player base; essentially as a F2P player you are "content" for the P2P players--you are paying your subscription by keeping P2P players in the game! This is probably the most "innocent" of the models but very easily goes into "pay so you don't suck" or "pay to win" in worst case scenarios. There are a few gems out there in the wild, but most are just pure exploitation. Some recent trends in F2P include "play or pay or you lose your progress" and "pay to get revenge on the rich 12-year old that just beat the crap out of you with money".

2. I do a rough calculation on the money something is worth before I consider it's price. In that sense it's irrelevant to me if you get it though 3 payments or 1 payment as long as I see it as worth it cumulatively. That said, very few things are worth their price, particularly the $60+ ones. Nickle and dimming you with DLC is just the tip of the iceberg...

3. You're getting "less" so obviously: NOPE. Though frankly worse things happen; like price fluctuations between regions.

4. Don't care.

5. Shit you pay for should belong to you. Nuff said.
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:09   Link #107
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
Apt video for Digital vs Physical for pricing which was put up today.

edit: lol, RWB, one day.. one day.. it'll work for us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Bleh, Jim Sterling is often hit and miss when it comes to his articles. For someone who does gaming journalism/blog, he doesn't have enough understanding of how the market operates and publisher-retailer relationship or he is just purposely stirring the pot up for view counts.

go look up ESA 2011 Sales report page 11 and you ll see why digital retailers cannot undercut traditional retailers pricing yet. It's also why regional pricing varies despite being on digital download distribution.
Well, Jim Sterling has always been about satire and opinion, so it should be treated as such.

That being said, I don't see how this shows the digital platform can't undercut retail prices yet. Indeed, the lower sales should be an encouragement to do so, since it will increase their market position. Right now, there's a lower digital market mainly because the retail market has a strong position, true, but also because there is no real reason to buy digitally. You are, after all, paying the same price. Why not stick with retail?

Digital will only become attractive when it has an advantage over retail, and one advantage the platform can lord over retailers is a lower price.
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:29   Link #108
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I can walk into Gamestop and their "PC game" section is about 4 linear feet of pathetic, abused, often used drivel. Prominently displayed is a big catalog you can order download games from. Seriously past the tipping point of charging the same for virtual and physical.

The chain stores (Target, etc.) really ought to just free up the space - there's almost no movement at all in product and the shelf is obviously stocked by clueless idiots.

Collector's editions should be the focus of brick'n'mortar. You know, maps, posters, shirts, and cool stuff in the box.
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Old 2012-05-08, 13:30   Link #109
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I don't see the issue because a) Steam sales are pretty much constant and b) I never buy a game when it's brand-new unless I really, really wanted it in which case a $60 price tag isn't going to dissuade me.

I do wish the $60 + DLC price model would go away though, especially for digital content. The last game I bought was preordering Torchlight II, which cost a grand whopping $15 since a couple friends and I went in on a 4-pack.
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Old 2012-05-08, 13:56   Link #110
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I was actually talking about digital distribution in general. Steam sales are a good thing for steam. Not so good for other online platforms who don't do such sales.

And they still don't excuse charging you the same retail price even though less costs were present on their side and you as a customer get less for your money.
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Old 2012-05-08, 15:24   Link #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I was actually talking about digital distribution in general. Steam sales are a good thing for steam. Not so good for other online platforms who don't do such sales.

And they still don't excuse charging you the same retail price even though less costs were present on their side and you as a customer get less for your money.
Of course they don't. AT&T charges me $30 a month for 3GB of mobile data despite their network being newer and their technology being better to the point where providing mobile data costs significantly less than it did a few years ago.

Yet a few years ago AT&T sold unlimited data for $25 a month. Way more than 3GB, and it was cheaper, too! But back then mobile data was more expensive to offer. The technology gets cheaper and easier, but the prices go up? This is all wrong from a pragmatic standpoint.

The problem is this: they don't care about the consumer. They only care about profits, and they'll naturally charge whatever they can get away with; whatever people will be willing to pay. They'll charge whatever they can charge. EA started the trend of the $60 new release and now everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. The market will bear that cost for big-name titles, so they're perfectly able to charge that, even if they have lower costs and overhead, even if we don't get a box with a spinny disc in it.

The only way to make digital distribution go down in price is to either a) stop buying the $60 new releases until they come down in price (highly unlikely to happen) or b) patronize only the stores that sell digital copies of games much more cheaply than their physical counterparts.

The latter is far more likely and is already happening with Steam... EA may refuse to put their biggest titles on Steam in favor of Origin to keep the price at $60 longer, but other publishers don't have the same power EA does. They'll have to fall in line or risk losing money.
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Old 2012-05-08, 15:32   Link #112
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It's still a terrible decision even from a profit-central standpoint. Take EA, with origin they have a chance to boost the popularity of origin. All those complaints will simmer down if customers can get their shiny EA titles cheaper on origin, which stabilizes the platform and allows them to eventually overtake retail stores in their profit margin, effectively eliminating not only expensive extra productions and trade steps, but also downgrade the competition of the used game market.
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Old 2012-05-08, 15:49   Link #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's still a terrible decision even from a profit-central standpoint. Take EA, with origin they have a chance to boost the popularity of origin. All those complaints will simmer down if customers can get their shiny EA titles cheaper on origin, which stabilizes the platform and allows them to eventually overtake retail stores in their profit margin, effectively eliminating not only expensive extra productions and trade steps, but also downgrade the competition of the used game market.
We see that, sure. They don't. This is the same shit that's been happening with the record industry and the film industry. They don't see how the old business models are phasing out and new models are being created.

Instead, they see the newer companies as competition to be crushed, the new models as dangerous new trends to be smashed. They want to maintain the status quo despite the fact that they could make even more sickeningly large amounts of money if they'd just move with the times.

Unfortunately they always seem to see moving with the times as a huge risk, even when it's really not, and they'd rather move heaven, hell and earth with their bare hands to keep everything exactly the same than change.

This is why we have record labels suing tweeners for downloading MP3s and shit like SOPA trying to be passed as law. Because these companies refuse to adapt. Just because EA sells video games does not make them immune. They adapt quickly to the trends that benefit them the most in the immediate short-term (chopping up games and selling tons of DLC, for instance) and they resist those that might benefit them in the long-term (selling digital-only copies cheaper than boxed copies).
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Old 2012-05-09, 05:45   Link #114
Jazzrat
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, Jim Sterling has always been about satire and opinion, so it should be treated as such.

That being said, I don't see how this shows the digital platform can't undercut retail prices yet. Indeed, the lower sales should be an encouragement to do so, since it will increase their market position. Right now, there's a lower digital market mainly because the retail market has a strong position, true, but also because there is no real reason to buy digitally. You are, after all, paying the same price. Why not stick with retail?

Digital will only become attractive when it has an advantage over retail, and one advantage the platform can lord over retailers is a lower price.
I'm not in the industry so all these are based on my interpretation and correlation off the report.

The problem for digital distribution is the need for a credit card and teenagers who don't have access to one makes up a good portion of the market. Not to mention other issues like internet connectivity, buyer behaviour and trend.

So your traditional retailers are very important to a publisher to access that market and it matters a lot if it's a nationwide big chain like Gamestop.

If you priced it lower, you're basically stealing customers from your client but the fact remains that even if it's cheaper to buy online, the majority of your consumer can't get it online cause they don't have a credit card. So don't poke the bear eventhough you're trying to steal it's honey behind it.

This is why instead of offering more for digital purchase, some publishers actually gives extra stuff for physical copies that you purchase off certain chains. If more teens have credit cards (or some form of electronic wallet), publisher will be a lot more aggressive in cutting out the middleman. While digital sales are picking up, it will be awhile before we see publishers in a position to undercut retailers.

edit: also, i believe this is a key factor why there's digital regional pricing and why there's delay for regions outside US when it comes to digital releases.
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Old 2012-05-09, 06:23   Link #115
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Credit card arguement is kind of silly, you can use debit services like Paypal for many things, or one of those pre-load credit cards (which kids can have, since its not really a credit card).
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:33   Link #116
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Mebe should have posted this here since it's vaguely relevant, but I kinda forgot about this thread.
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Old 2012-05-25, 10:35   Link #117
Keroko
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Australia is one of the most glaring examples, but games indeed do cost too much. Big budgets are slowly stopping to be a valid excuse with movies, which often have the same if not higher budgets, selling their DVD's for a third of the average game price.

The digital retail system points out quite vividly that this is all greed, since the lack of a difference in price between a retail and digital copy clearly points out that the usual excuses of cost (creation, marketing, shipping, retailing) are partially a lie, since the last two don't quite exist as such for digital copies.
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