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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 30
10: Amazing... 6 15.00%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 12 30.00%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 11 27.50%
7 out of 10: Good... 8 20.00%
6 out of 10: Average... 2 5.00%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 2.50%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 0 0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-07, 22:30   Link #101
Nivek von Beldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvis View Post
Who needs about a giant laser when you can just fire a Nuke?

Nuke solves all problems.

I've been asking Nukes since the last season, because the Veigan will not play the MAD Card(they need the earth in good shape), but in this universe, either the Nukes ran out in the past centenary war(in the background is mention that war was very bloody), or locked in the asteroid with the super-tech of that war, or maybe the doesn't have the range to reach Mars...Yet

In general the people here think so bad, heck even Flit and other are more cool-headed so far, again wait how the series evolved if Flit trully become a Villain-Protagonist than the Fallen Messiah and Anti-hero he is now, wait for a while.

In general Kio know who is the enemy...Ezelcant and the Military Veigan, but still expect to either have an experience with a veigan like his father(like with the goth loli from the OP) or launch a wham line like... " All the Veigan are not more that space monsters", either way make wonder for the characther.

Still Natori... maybe Flit will start to 'train' and 'correct' her in a 'good' way step by step to become a decent captain(not Grodek-level, but as good as Mirrilia or Bright)
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Old 2012-05-07, 23:08   Link #102
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo View Post
I've been asking Nukes since the last season, because the Veigan will not play the MAD Card(they need the earth in good shape), but in this universe, either the Nukes ran out in the past centenary war(in the background is mention that war was very bloody), or locked in the asteroid with the super-tech of that war, or maybe the doesn't have the range to reach Mars...Yet

In general the people here think so bad, heck even Flit and other are more cool-headed so far, again wait how the series evolved if Flit trully become a Villain-Protagonist than the Fallen Messiah and Anti-hero he is now, wait for a while.

In general Kio know who is the enemy...Ezelcant and the Military Veigan, but still expect to either have an experience with a veigan like his father(like with the goth loli from the OP) or launch a wham line like... " All the Veigan are not more that space monsters", either way make wonder for the characther.

Still Natori... maybe Flit will start to 'train' and 'correct' her in a 'good' way step by step to become a decent captain(not Grodek-level, but as good as Mirrilia or Bright)
I kinda like where you're going with that. Have Zeheart kill his own subordinate (the Loli) in front of Kio after they've developed some sort of bond in one of those "randomly meet with the enemy in a neutral colony" episodes? That'd be sweet drama lol.
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Old 2012-05-08, 04:49   Link #103
orpheus2
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
I kinda like where you're going with that. Have Zeheart kill his own subordinate (the Loli) in front of Kio after they've developed some sort of bond in one of those "randomly meet with the enemy in a neutral colony" episodes? That'd be sweet drama lol.
To add futher, have Flit stumble upon Kio and the goth loli playing with each other while being reminded of his time with Yurin. He also gets front row seat in seeing his grandson failing to save her as he did before him. Essentially, history will repeat once again.
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:15   Link #104
aeriolewinters
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I don't think Fram would suffer that fate. I'm leaning towards her being saved, they won't pull the same thing twice, it's too obvious now if they do it.
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Old 2012-05-08, 06:33   Link #105
JediNight
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Some odd pacing choices this episode. I guess the preparing of the Diva was already happening before the launch of AGE-3. Otherwise the lazy unrushed speed of their crew assembly and launch is kinda odd. (In the scope of Kio supposedly fighting Zeheart the entire time)

The only really silly part I thought was how Zeheart was batting Kio around, then suddenly when the cannon attachment was launched he was a huge distance away and magically Zeheart couldn't get close to him.

Props for badass Obright though. Too bad he still doesn't get his own custom mech like Woolf had... And I really wonder we're they're going to go with such a hodgepodge crew.

Seems next episode is a throwback to MSG 0079 with the desert battle?
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Old 2012-05-08, 07:36   Link #106
orpheus2
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I don't think Fram would suffer that fate. I'm leaning towards her being saved, they won't pull the same thing twice, it's too obvious now if they do it.
I do not know but since this part of the series is a homage to ZZ and Victory, It might happen. After all, Victory was infamous for its high body count. Who would say the creators would want emulate that as well.
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Old 2012-05-08, 12:18   Link #107
Nivek von Beldo
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I don't think Fram would suffer that fate. I'm leaning towards her being saved, they won't pull the same thing twice, it's too obvious now if they do it.
Anything is possible, so long we've to wait, but how Zeheart was 'nerfed' as characther(well is natural without Asemu in the battlefield) even with the 'buff' as pilot(more deadly), still anything is possible... what if rather the Fram, is either one or the three kids(if they die, i'll be grateful) or worse...Wendy who suffer under Vegan Hands... we have our Rage mode and drama for Kio.

And the desert battle is the mix of both the desert arc(with Ramba) with the Tri-Black Starts, the Phantom 3 is pretty direct reference. that would be Nice
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Old 2012-05-08, 14:48   Link #108
Bonta Kun
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I was chuffed to hear Rina Satou in the previous ep and then when it looked like she would be the new captain of the Diva, was really quite exicted and boy they didn't let me down, totally loving her role atm.
Think probably my 2nd favorite captain after the awesome Miss Ramius Murrue.
Really looking forward to her part in this story.
Already seems there may be some Natora X Holmes sparks flying around already

Rest of the ep wasn't bad at all, still tbh I would have liked to see a new ship, Diva is cool n all but with the timeline make it's way so far forward, I thiunk it would have been a good idea for a new ship to appear.
Altho I understand the whole keeping the same "flagship" ship through out.

Also like the animation of teh Gundam with it's rather battered look after the battle, it's only then they can really put that kinda detail in but glad they did.

Was pretty good seeing the AGE system in action again, when was the last time they showed it?
Altho I wasn't exactly excited at what it made but given the circumstances I can let it pass.
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Old 2012-05-08, 17:27   Link #109
bighawke5
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So Vagan genocide evil, Flit genocide good, ok thanks for clearing that up.

The problem with the Vagans initially coming back was the fact that no one knew they existed. Plus if there are all these colonies around the Earth it's hard to believe a massive group of people can just move back without issue. Very possible we've got some population control in place. Of course shouldn't have been a problem later. Sadly by that point a crazy leader emerged and took things to a point where peace talks weren't going to happen.

So since we haven't seen good people with the Vagans we should commit genocide? It's certainly not possible at all that the leadership would only advance those who shared their beliefs right? That'd be like saying in WW2 all Germans should have been killed because all that the Allies met in battle were Nazi soldiers.

Personally I'd love to find where these people putting the Vagans in a noble light are. Why is it so hard for people to figure out that both Flit and Ezelcant can be wrong? The Federation started off wrong with leaving those people in that situation. Then the Vagans did the wrong thing in getting revenge and trying to forcefully take Earth for themselves. And Flit is wrong for the path he's going down. We have no idea what the people on Mars actually know about things. Easy enough to tell them that the people on Earth are a bunch of evil villains who are laughing it up on Earth while intentionally leaving them there. If the leaders don't tell them differently. Only advance those either willing to commit genocide themselves or are simply bad guys and you've got yourself a despicable army. All you need to do is tell the soldiers they are removing evil people to make room for their families who will be saved from further tragedy.

Both sides are going in the wrong direction here.
That's a beautiful dream. Unfortunately the worst part of circular arguments is that no one will ever stop. Still good to dream though.
yea thanks for summarizing in bold
"So since we haven't seen good people with the Vagans we should commit genocide? It's certainly not possible at all that the leadership would only advance those who shared their beliefs right? That'd be like saying in WW2 all Germans should have been killed because all that the Allies met in battle were Nazi soldiers."
i dont agree here because your example assumes all germans were advocates of hitler even though he ruled by fear and its certainly not true because if you asked each and every german annonymously, if truthfully in their hearts if they supported his views 100% without question i'm sure you'd find some that disagreed(i know from personal experience with elder family menbers and their acquintances). Plus that would be near impossible since thats astronomical amounts of people.

BUT here we have a controlled space, where we know for a fact that all vagans share ezelcant's belief hence yea i'd say "kill em all" vagans, that is . Am i right for wanting to commit genocide because of my belief? no, but as long as i do it to protect a much more significant amount of people i dont care. And also the fact that i know ezelcant is straight up doing HIS genocide for revenge makes my decision and view about the whole thing that much stronger and helps me sleep at night knowing i've killed that many evil. I can gladly go to hell after the fact. I'm sure thats what's going on within flit's mind lol

does it mean ezelcant's reasons are wrong? no, because i can't judge him since i'm not perfect. I can call him evil though based on my beliefs as annyone standing by their beliefs would. The truth though is Both sides are wrong, because genocides solves nothing and is too costly, leaving nothing but sour tastes in the mouth.

"Both sides are going in the wrong direction here.
That's a beautiful dream. Unfortunately the worst part of circular arguments is that no one will ever stop. Still good to dream though"
nicely worded sir, I seldom get too into disscussions about anime works and later recall "its all fantasy bud chillax" lol

Last edited by bighawke5; 2012-05-08 at 17:43.
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Old 2012-05-08, 17:47   Link #110
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by bighawke5 View Post
yea thanks for summarizing in bold
"So since we haven't seen good people with the Vagans we should commit genocide? It's certainly not possible at all that the leadership would only advance those who shared their beliefs right? That'd be like saying in WW2 all Germans should have been killed because all that the Allies met in battle were Nazi soldiers."
i dont agree here because your example assumes all germans were advocates of hitler even though he ruled by fear and its certainly not true because if you asked each and every german annonymously, if truthfully in their hearts if they supported his views 100% without question i'm sure you'd find some that disagreed(i know from personal experience with elder family menbers and their acquintances). Plus that would be near impossible since thats astronomical amounts of people.
Uh yeah that's why there were so many attempts to remove Hitler from power.

They did it in the hopes to set up a government that would at least be "favourable" to the Allies to negotiate peace.

The Nazis were pretty much the face of Germany and not everyone was with them and hence the resistance.

For the Vagans, someone from their end would have to offer the olive branch once Ezcelant is removed. The Federation has already shown it was willing to negotiate.
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Old 2012-05-08, 18:36   Link #111
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by bighawke5 View Post
yea thanks for summarizing in bold
"So since we haven't seen good people with the Vagans we should commit genocide? It's certainly not possible at all that the leadership would only advance those who shared their beliefs right? That'd be like saying in WW2 all Germans should have been killed because all that the Allies met in battle were Nazi soldiers."
i dont agree here because your example assumes all germans were advocates of hitler even though he ruled by fear and its certainly not true because if you asked each and every german annonymously, if truthfully in their hearts if they supported his views 100% without question i'm sure you'd find some that disagreed(i know from personal experience with elder family menbers and their acquintances). Plus that would be near impossible since thats astronomical amounts of people.

BUT here we have a controlled space, where we know for a fact that all vagans share ezelcant's belief hence yea i'd say "kill em all" vagans, that is . Am i right for wanting to commit genocide because of my belief? no, but as long as i do it to protect a much more significant amount of people i dont care. And also the fact that i know ezelcant is straight up doing HIS genocide for revenge makes my decision and view about the whole thing that much stronger and helps me sleep at night knowing i've killed that many evil. I can gladly go to hell after the fact. I'm sure thats what's going on within flit's mind lol

does it mean ezelcant's reasons are wrong? no, because i can't judge him since i'm not perfect. I can call him evil though based on my beliefs as annyone standing by their beliefs would. The truth though is Both sides are wrong, because genocides solves nothing and is too costly, leaving nothing but sour tastes in the mouth.

"Both sides are going in the wrong direction here.
That's a beautiful dream. Unfortunately the worst part of circular arguments is that no one will ever stop. Still good to dream though" nicely worded sir, I seldom get too into disscussions about anime works and later recall "its all fantasy bud chillax" lol
Uhh.....we don't know that all the Vagans share Ezelcant's beliefs, just that his army does, kinda like how the Waffen SS shared Hitler's beliefs. In fact we don't even know what Ezelcant's beliefs are. So far he's said he wants to create a world where people don't have to kill each other or worry about disease. But that could just be what he wants Zeheart and his armed forces to hear, you know a motivational/manipulative tool.

Ezelcant and the Vagan army have been ruthless in their campaigns against the Federation, but we can't say for certain that their goal is genocide. It's a common and time tested tactic to target civilians in asymetric warfare. After all the Vagans seem to operate more as a guerilla, albeit a highly technologically advanced one.
Remember, one man's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter. To the Federation citizens getting blown up by Zheart's ship Ezelcant is a terrorist, but to the Vagans dying because of Mars Rays he is a hero.
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Old 2012-05-10, 09:48   Link #112
KaiDamien
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-Damn i'm totally in love with this gen MS. Be it the Vagans or the EFFs.
-Now that the EFF is supposed to be unified,i'm surprised that there are people like the base commander. As a whole the EFF should be working together dammit, not trying to decrease the chance of winning the war.
-The fight between Zeheart and Kio& Flit was lackluster like hell.I was even surprised AGE-3 could hang in there that long. Not to mention how the hell Kio managed to get the attachment on when the previous scene was AGE-3 being lock in a close combat fight with Ghiraga.And Zeheart didn't even bother shooting the attachment down? That's just wow. The part where AGE-3 was waiting for the new weapon feels very forced, its as if the writers just want to show the new weapon and just don't care about what happens while AGE-3 was waiting for the weapon.
-The part where the Abis team got into formation with AGE-3 was pretty cool, not to mention grunt units fighting in formation with AGE-3(though it was only for a while) AGE-2 was part of Woolf's team but AGE-2 never felt like he was never part of the team ; Woolf's team doesn't even feel like a team, it just feels like people coming together to do random burst of fire.
- I'm still surprise Zeheart needs the mask. With all the technological advance, i find it hard to believe that the Ghiraga isn't up to his X-Rounder standars.I guess its just comestics or that Zeheart has grown ridiculously powerful.
- Arghhhh, no Dorene???? When she first appeared i got a feeling she was the evil mastermind

Last edited by KaiDamien; 2012-05-10 at 10:02.
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Old 2012-05-10, 14:38   Link #113
atilim
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Ezelcant and the Vagan army have been ruthless in their campaigns against the Federation, but we can't say for certain that their goal is genocide. It's a common and time tested tactic to target civilians in asymetric warfare. After all the Vagans seem to operate more as a guerilla, albeit a highly technologically advanced one.
Remember, one man's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter. To the Federation citizens getting blown up by Zheart's ship Ezelcant is a terrorist, but to the Vagans dying because of Mars Rays he is a hero.
From a outsider (read Federation) point of view Vagan are actively aiming at civilians and buildings while almost ignoring the army.

The whole war was started by wiping out a unarmed civilian colony. I fail to see any military advantage by attacking a civilian colony.

Even if their direct goal isn't killing every single person on earth and earth affiliated colony they aren't really helping their case by randomly firing in a city.
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Old 2012-05-10, 16:41   Link #114
Revolutionist
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From a outsider (read Federation) point of view Vagan are actively aiming at civilians and buildings while almost ignoring the army.

The whole war was started by wiping out a unarmed civilian colony. I fail to see any military advantage by attacking a civilian colony.

Even if their direct goal isn't killing every single person on earth and earth affiliated colony they aren't really helping their case by randomly firing in a city.
they are firing at everything in their sight, which again doesn't help their case but they aren't just ignoring mobile suits to go after the civilians.
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Old 2012-05-10, 17:49   Link #115
atilim
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they are firing at everything in their sight, which again doesn't help their case but they aren't just ignoring mobile suits to go after the civilians.
The ships bombardment of the city in eps 30 and the destruction of the first colony suggest otherwise.

The only thing missing is that the MS actively stop fighting Fed. and just ignore them because that is the only thing left.

And funny thing during Age 1 they actually did ignore the mobile suits and focused on just destroying the city. Can't blame them though when non of the weapons before Age 1 couldn't even scratch their armor.
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Old 2012-05-10, 18:20   Link #116
Nivek von Beldo
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Yes the Veigan were always in a 'Sweeping' Mission(ie Cleaning any sing of the 'treacherous' Federation who let us behind) with the Colonies(who unlike Other gundams...here they are states of their own and have good freedom in the federation...the Irony,XD).

Maybe that is all the product of Fanatism, Remember they were let along to die via Space AIDS thanks to Mars Radiation and think that the whole federation plan that all along, is natural, something i think Ezelcant manage to well(maybe is true the fan theory and Ezelcant is either a long line of clones or a Cyborg?) so long.

Thus in the next chapter preview... we have our Ramba Ral fight combined with the Tri Black Star attack?
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Old 2012-05-10, 21:16   Link #117
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Nah Cold Sleep could naturally extend Ezelcant's lifespan. Unlike Aeolia Schenberg that has a plan and backup plans that make sense and beneficial for humanity Ezelcant's plan is mostly winging it and self destructive for Vegans.

Yes yes Aeolia Schenberg got shot in the head. Not that he didn't expect a possible power grab but he does trust future generations to do what is right. Ezelcant is a micro-manager with his indoctrination brain washings.
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Old 2012-05-10, 21:42   Link #118
Nivek von Beldo
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Nah Cold Sleep could naturally extend Ezelcant's lifespan. Unlike Aeolia Schenberg that has a plan and backup plans that make sense and beneficial for humanity Ezelcant's plan is mostly winging it and self destructive for Vegans.

Yes yes Aeolia Schenberg got shot in the head. Not that he didn't expect a possible power grab but he does trust future generations to do what is right. Ezelcant is a micro-manager with his indoctrination brain washings.
Aeolia Plans were ridiculous all along(so much Utopic, tipical of scientific) and you're right in all the intentios of Ezelcant, but he alive for almost more than 65 years as a 'senior'(more that fifty years old as a minimum) and still both Medicine and Cold Sleep can have a limit... isn't it?(Or not thanks to Zeheart)

In general Ezelcant is Hiding the true reason of the plot very well, he would have use is card better(regardless canon) but still playing with a upperhand... still waiting the Three Asunos Facing him the final battle.
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Old 2012-05-11, 14:37   Link #119
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well, I'm not trying to justify Zeheart's tactics, but when you do all the fighting from battleships and mobile suits it becomes a lot easier to kill people. It's not the same dropping a bomb, or in this case a high powered beam onto a bunch of buildings as actually being on the ground and looking people in the face before you shoot them.

It takes a really sick person to gun down a mother and her child, but anybody can do it with say a tomahawk missile from 5k miles away. It's less personal and can be chalked up to collateral damage.
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Old 2012-05-13, 05:40   Link #120
JediNight
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The entire battle at Oliviernotes so far has been stupid, though. It just makes no tactical sense.

Why would you spend 20+ years carefully infiltrating Earth, hiding mobile suits in buildings, etc. to give you the ultimate surprise attack -- only to squander that surprise on attacking the civilian population? Thereby giving the military forces ample time to sortie?

If they had gone straight for the military base, they probably could have destroyed many of the mobile suits before they could launch, and the Diva right in her berth.
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