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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 55 43.65%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 30.95%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 17.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 5.56%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.79%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.79%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.79%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-15, 12:21   Link #161
Xagzan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I know what you mean. It was devastating to watch indeed.

Spoiler for Long:


Got a little carried away there, but that's just how complex and fascinating Kiritsugu's character is. Speaking of which, this is definitely a good time for those who haven't checked out Season 1's Sound Drama to do so, since it shows the events which took place in Kiritsugu's life between this episode and the beginning of the series, which definitely add to his character (as well as Iri's). A shame they couldn't animate that as well.
His whole character just has multiple levels. I love it.

Are we allowed to ask for links to at least transcripts for sound dramas (translated naturally)? You mentioned Iri being the person who understands him better than anyone, and now I find myself wondering, how did that come to be? We haven't really gotten much backstory for them in the anime, and I am an anime only viewer on this, so I haven't seen much in the way of intimacy between them. And if there were scenes like that in season 1, I forget.
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Old 2012-05-15, 13:37   Link #162
Kanon
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm surprised the term "superhero" hasn't been used yet. Has that been intentional?
Just a different translation. The term Shiro used in F/SN (Seigi no mikata) has already been used multiple times, but it was translated literally to "ally of Justice" rather than "superhero" here. At least that's how it is in the subs I watch.
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Old 2012-05-15, 18:52   Link #163
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by kemal_1915 View Post
People always miss the main point, don't they?
groaning about all the alternative methods for saving Natalie is useless to understand what Gen wants to say
in these two eps, he wanted to ask the audiences (readers):"You are willing to sacrifice one to save many people. BUT, what if the "one" is your loved one and the "many" is mere strangers?"
Yes, I believe that are many ways to bring Natalie back from the situation
but this is dodging the question and leave it unanswered
Gen really wanted to slam the question onto our face and force us to answer it
thinking about the plot-hole and alternatives is ok but we should focus on what he wanted to present
Agreed. I feel that what makes watching fictional stories like this interesting is dissecting the characters and reflecting on the themes and questions posed by the author. Focusing seemingly entirely on the scientific accuracy of the devices used to construct said questions seems to me like a waste of time and missing the point, but alas, I guess that's what's fun for some people. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
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Old 2012-05-15, 19:30   Link #164
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
He's the hero the world deserves, but not the one it needs right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Just a different translation. The term Shiro used in F/SN (Seigi no mikata) has already been used multiple times, but it was translated literally to "ally of Justice" rather than "superhero" here. At least that's how it is in the subs I watch.
Seriously!? Wow... that changes things for me. Superhero is a liberal translation though. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 2012-05-15, 20:10   Link #165
mAc Chaos
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Well, it makes sense.

A hero is someone who saves people, but is still a human. He looks out for his loved ones.

So a super hero is someone who goes above and beyond what's possible, and saves everyone.
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Old 2012-05-15, 20:13   Link #166
DragoZERO
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It does make sense, but it's still a creative translation since justice is literally used. But to be honest, I like superhero more since you can compare it to the ideological superhero we find in comics and movies.
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Old 2012-05-15, 20:24   Link #167
mAc Chaos
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Well, it's the same thing used in the games too, I think.
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Old 2012-05-15, 20:48   Link #168
Alaya
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Agreed. I feel that what makes watching fictional stories like this interesting is dissecting the characters and reflecting on the themes and questions posed by the author. Focusing seemingly entirely on the scientific accuracy of the devices used to construct said questions seems to me like a waste of time and missing the point, but alas, I guess that's what's fun for some people. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
I think there's a question that is asked in Fate series in general. What is Hero/Ally of Justice? Is it someone, against all odd, trying to achieve their ideal? Is it someone who willing to sacrifice few to save many? Or is it someone who would bear a condemnation of the world to save someone he/she loves?
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Old 2012-05-16, 01:33   Link #169
jeroz
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I have a feeling that Urobuchi loves to explore the concept of regret. Kiritsugu suffers because even though he hides his emotions so well, he still has regrets as to if this flawed belief of his is the best way to do so. Even if he regrets his past, he's stuck on a path that doesn't allow the previous sacrifices to be wasted. The more he moves on the more pain he will inflict upon himself, and the bigger toll is placed upon his humanity.

Caster-Ryunosuke died while finding their true desire. Lancer-Kayneth died while being totally unfulfilled even the smallest wishes they had. Assassin is left like a ragdoll, and Tokiomi didn't have time to react to the betrayal from his best disciple.
All of them left the stage under different circumstances, and you can see the different reactions they had. The bigger the regret, the more painful the death is. At the moment neither Rider nor Waver seem to have any big lingering wishes, Kirei and Gilgamesh seem to have found their joy, Kariya is still striving for that aimless goal, and it seems like Kiritsugu is gambling on the grail, Saber as well. Different factions have different attachment to the outcome of this grail war, and it would be very interesting to see under what circumstances do the remaining participants exit the stage.
Will they leave knowing they had done what they could? or will they be left lamenting the missed opportunities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemal_1915 View Post
People always miss the main point, don't they?
groaning about all the alternative methods for saving Natalie is useless to understand what Gen wants to say
in these two eps, he wanted to ask the audiences (readers):"You are willing to sacrifice one to save many people. BUT, what if the "one" is your loved one and the "many" is mere strangers?"
Yes, I believe that are many ways to bring Natalie back from the situation
but this is dodging the question and leave it unanswered
Gen really wanted to slam the question onto our face and force us to answer it
thinking about the plot-hole and alternatives is ok but we should focus on what he wanted to present
he also showed us his opinion that both "yes" (kill Natalie) or "no" (let Shirley go) will make him (us) suffer
then, what is that "justice"? where that "justice" is found? Should we still stick with that "justice"?
this is only an age-old moral dilemma and re-told by Gen
and I think he is good at doing it
10/10
It's human nature whenever they witness a tragedy to ask themselves if it can be prevented. It's a basic survival mechanism really.

The only problem is that not many knew that all the options had been sealed already, and prefer to have hollywood/anime physics to do its job. Hilarious really.
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Last edited by jeroz; 2012-05-16 at 01:44.
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Old 2012-05-16, 07:08   Link #170
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Alaya View Post
I think there's a question that is asked in Fate series in general. What is Hero/Ally of Justice? Is it someone, against all odd, trying to achieve their ideal? Is it someone who willing to sacrifice few to save many? Or is it someone who would bear a condemnation of the world to save someone he/she loves?
That was one of the big differences between the three routes and one of the big reasons that I love the game so much.
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Old 2012-05-16, 08:48   Link #171
Haak
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Though in this case, it's probably also worth including "willing to bear the condemnation of the world to save everyone".
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Old 2012-05-16, 10:53   Link #172
blue_sora
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So the preview screenshots for Ep 20 are already out. We already reached the 20th mark, huh? Feels like just yesterday that the second season starts...

Spoiler for EP 20:
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Old 2012-05-16, 10:58   Link #173
Qilin
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Originally Posted by blue_sora View Post
So the preview screenshots for Ep 20 are already out. We already reached the 20th mark, huh? Feels like just yesterday that the second season starts...

Spoiler for EP 20:
Why is it that Waver and Maiya look so much alike?

Coincidence? Or something much more sinister?
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Old 2012-05-16, 12:08   Link #174
blue_sora
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Why is it that Waver and Maiya look so much alike?

Coincidence? Or something much more sinister?
It's just the character designs. Honestly, the first time I saw the novel cover and the anime trailer, I can't tell them both apart.
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Old 2012-05-16, 14:12   Link #175
brandon279
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Kiristugu is a bastard, nothing new.

really, he is just sick.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:42   Link #176
LunarMoon
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Kiristugu is a bastard, nothing new.

really, he is just sick.
Would having allowed billions of people to die somehow have made him "well"?
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Last edited by LunarMoon; 2012-05-16 at 17:06.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:50   Link #177
GDB
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Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
Would have allowing billions of people to die somehow have made him "well"?
Come on, it wouldn't be billions. Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, MAYBE millions... but billions? There aren't that many people in New York.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:50   Link #178
Haak
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Billions is a bit extreme, but yeah allowing vampirism to breed in a dense city like New York would probably not have been wise.

And then there's the whole "How the fuck do we explain this to the muggles?" issue that the Magus Association would eventually have to deal with.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:55   Link #179
LunarMoon
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Come on, it wouldn't be billions. Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, MAYBE millions... but billions? There aren't that many people in New York.
All it would take is for a single bee to be released into the airport and for one bitten person to hitch a ride to either Tokyo or London. Assuming that there was the slightest delay in undeath, the result could have made Europe's Black Plague look like a nasty case of the mumps.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:56   Link #180
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Come on, it wouldn't be billions. Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, MAYBE millions... but billions? There aren't that many people in New York.
millions would have die directly in NYC but billions would have been affected by the financial tidal wave form the destruction of NYC.
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