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Old 2012-05-14, 18:44   Link #781
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And she did all that. In fact, what she told Nagisa before going out to distract the enemy were the same exact words that Tsubasa used to describe the purpose of the test at the end. This shows Chieri really understood the test, even if she didn't know it was a test.

If Mayuyu thought that Chieri was isolating herself and that was an issue, she was right, but she was wrong thinking that would make her fail, because even if she didn't tell her anything, Chieri still would have found the answer on her own. She's that kind of person, or at least that's how she seems to me. She isn't perfect, but she has an incredible ability to adapt and learn, even if what she needs to learn is to be more of a team-player. She's already changing in that expect too, as shown by that heartfelt embrace with Yuka at the end of the episode.
But Chieri only got that chance because Nagisa raced through danger to go over to her. She spent her time fighting by herself and if it wasn't for Nagisa's efforts she would have ended up failing.

I think Chieri has a lot of potential as a character and has a lot of skills. But I do think she would have failed this test if she didn't have people she was friends with previously taking this. The key was in the end she did make the right choices that helped her pass. That warning was important since without it she might have kept on trying to fight by herself. I'm sure she'll be fine in the end. Might have needed a bit of a nudge, but she didn't just shrug off that warning and helped make herself one of the girls that passed.

With this test you really don't get too many chances. Give the girls a chance to get used to each other and build up that familiarity before putting them into what seems like a life or death situation. Rough test.
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Old 2012-05-14, 18:49   Link #782
mochichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckroll View Post
Mayuyu having a quiet one-on-one word with Chieri is hilarious. This is such a deep show! Lol.
It was like a paradox moment...
Chieri voiced by Mayuyu talking to the Mayuyu of the anime...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
Man. At the end of that scene I was thinking. Oh no Chieri is gone already? Oh well I guess she can add motivation to Nagisa and friends. That's good too! That scene looked like they were sending her to heaven.

The battle scene was great, but what exactly were the girls supposed to do against giant robots with nothing more than small caliber assault rifles and hand grenades vs the equivalent of a main battle tank. Hmmm...

I introduced this show to a bunch of otaku I know. Some of them ran away immediately after hearing Aitakatta, but a few stuck around. Maybe this show can bridge the gap between ota and wota?

Even I'm having this strange fascination with AKB right now. Spent al night watching AKBINGO. Minegishi is amazing. Why is she not top 10 grrr
I think the battle was just toughing them up.
Putting the trainees through suffering to make them stronger and build team works. The intention wasn't to survive because Chieri "died" but she's still in.

Also some fans said it could symbolize the suffering and hardship the real AKB went through in the beginning.

Alot of people doesn't like..Miichan camera whore personality
She's my top 10 but I get why. Sometime she's smart and clever about it by saying funny things to gain camera times, sometimes she's just jumping infront of the screen.... Even her character in Majisuka Gakuen 2 is call Shaku or screentime...
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Old 2012-05-14, 19:10   Link #783
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
But Chieri only got that chance because Nagisa raced through danger to go over to her. She spent her time fighting by herself and if it wasn't for Nagisa's efforts she would have ended up failing.
But both were fighting alone. Nagisa went over to her only when she realized they were the only ones still standing, but it's not that she had a plan or anything. If Chieri didn't distract the mech they would have been fucked anyway.

But I don't think that's the point. They didn't have to win to begin with. What Tsubasa wanted to see is how determined to protect the stage they were. I don't think she was expecting any sort of team work from them, unless you count Yuka carrying an unconscious Sonata as team work .

All in all, I just don't see Chieri failing even if Mayuyu didn't tell her anything. She still would have given her all (and saved Nagisa if she got into trouble), and that would have been enough IMO.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-05-14 at 19:58.
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Old 2012-05-14, 19:58   Link #784
sa547
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As with any band, there should never be the letter "I" in it, because the whole gang has to read from the same sheet of music, then move as one, and think as one. But there would be a lot more for them to go through, as the girls' individual eccentricities and tensions would affect their overall performance.

However, the position of "Center" is highly-coveted and very important: she isn't just the charismatic face of any team within the AKB franchise holding a fancy title, she also gets the rest of the team to focus, to follow her lead in choreography and singing, and IMHO, project her energy to the audience.



BTW, for those who were wondering who were Sasshi and Paruru in previous episodes:

Sasshi = Rino Sashihara (Team A)
Paruru = Haruka Shimazaki (Team 4)
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Old 2012-05-14, 20:06   Link #785
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
gets the rest of the team to focus, to follow her lead in choreography and singing.
Isn't the captain of the team who's supposed to do this? And I know the captain is not necessarily the center...
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Old 2012-05-14, 20:10   Link #786
sa547
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Isn't the captain of the team who's supposed to do this? And I know the captain is not necessary the center...

I think the center is more like the central image, so I agree that her charisma has to project her energy to the audience more than anyone else.
On the other hand, the Captain is in overall command, as she discusses with the team in matters of performance, discipline, coordination, as they make plans and preparations for upcoming events, and would go work alongside with the Center; she (presumably) is to act as a guidance counselor should any of the team members have a problem; like a class president and a vice-president, she and the Center represents the team in closed-door meetings with the Producer. If there is any discrepancy in the way her team performs, the Captain alone takes the brunt of responsibility and have to do a lot of explaining to the Producer.
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Old 2012-05-14, 20:19   Link #787
Sylphic
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How much leeway do these centers and captains get any way?

The dance is choreographed by a pro. The producer is the boss and has the final say in how the group is going to perform. The lead producer chooses the song, art, and anything else related to the whole production package.

So what the captain even do? The center just has to dance good because everyone is watching.
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Old 2012-05-14, 20:58   Link #788
Kaoru Chujo
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Deeply silly and wonderfully entertaining. I found ep3 quite moving, in fact, despite the multiple illogicalities. Just reasonable enough. Kawamori got me, too. And so did the music. I'm not sure whether the CG dancing was wonderful or awful, but I enjoyed it.
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Old 2012-05-14, 21:08   Link #789
mochichan
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Well...Their theater manager Togasaki said once in FLASH that they were considering dropping Oya Shizuka from the group but Team A members came up to him and asked to keep her because she's working hard. It made the management considered about keeping her. I think praises from other members can really influence the management's decision.

In concert, the management and the teams just teach them to do things but everything else is left to the captains to making sure that the other girls are learning it or scold them when they mess up. The captains also look out for the members and make sure everyone got their equipment, scripts, know the choreo etc.

3:38-->8:45

oh also i've heard that recently, the teams were told to pick the songs they want for one of their concert's set list.
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Old 2012-05-14, 23:00   Link #790
sa547
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Speaking of TGSK, I wonder if he'll make an appearance/incarnation in the show, because he seems to be a total badass, and he reminds me of a USMC drill instructor with the distinctive "Smokey" hat (if the AKB49 manga is to be believed).
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Old 2012-05-14, 23:29   Link #791
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for a minute there, i thought all the generic grunt girls were all meeting a gruesome end, until they mentioned the paintballs.....

& Kirara is starting to annoy me, some space jellyfish only of capable of saying LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Old 2012-05-14, 23:47   Link #792
mochichan
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Maybe after Kirara absorbed enough idol aura, it will evolve into a giant alien bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Speaking of TGSK, I wonder if he'll make an appearance/incarnation in the show, because he seems to be a total badass, and he reminds me of a USMC drill instructor with the distinctive "Smokey" hat (if the AKB49 manga is to be believed).
I kinda thought Mariko is TGSK in the show since she's taking care of the trainees.
or maybe TGSK can be like the guardian to the great GodKi-P shrine lol.
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Old 2012-05-15, 00:11   Link #793
sa547
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Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
& Kirara is starting to annoy me, some space jellyfish only of capable of saying LOLOLOLOLOLOL
At least way more benign than Ai-kun's cousins, and for a creature much smaller than that, the Kirara can perform "stupid pet" tricks like spacefolding.

Cute pets has been a Kawamori tradition since SDFM.

BTW:
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Old 2012-05-15, 03:40   Link #794
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Caught the latest episode just now. Slightly bitchy girls are great. Haha, thus far, Yuuka and Chieri are my favourite characters.

About the supposed ota/wota divide. I don't really follow idols so I don't know anything about it, and on the one hand I'm sure and it makes sense to me that there really would be that kind of tension between the two fanbases--but actually, aren't there really quite a number of productions which sort of blur the lines between "idol" and "anime"?

For example, I just got done watching a concert DVD for a live Milky Holmes performance. If I understand correctly, Milky Holmes the idol group exists specifically to promote the Milky Holmes media franchise--or alternatively, the Milky Holmes media franchise exists specifically to promote the idol group Milky Holmes. For an anime connected explicitly to a "3D" idol group/franchise, Milky Holmes has managed to be fairly popular.

Then there is the entire aspect of "Live shows" which are associated with anime itself which (I'm under the impression) have gotten significantly popular even beyond these two examples. Symphogear, for example, was promoted heavily in connection with Nana Mizuki. I didn't follow Guilty Crown, but I've heard that there was a live concert ticket associated with the BD volumes. A while ago I also ran across some youtube videos recording live events associated with the musical artist responsible for Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei's opening songs and a number of the female cast from the anime.

Then there is the other seiyuu/idol group associated anime I'm enjoying this season, Natsuiro Kiseki, which features the main girls of Sphere. Basically, the point is that it seems to me like anime otaku aren't actually all that averse to 3D events or promotions associated with their anime. Just as there are anime which exist in specific connection to certain real world idols/performers (AKB0048, Natsuiro Kiseki, Milky Holmes, arguably Symphogear), there is also a lot of crossover from seiyuu/anime productions into idol-like activities. So in that light, is it really completely accurate to say that (I dunno, like for example: the majority of) idol wota and anime ota hate each other?


Anyway, back to the AKB0048 anime. lol, episode 3 was really something. Back when I was watching episode 1 I was pervaded, to an extent, with a strong sense of "although the execution is impressive, this show's themes constitute essentially a whole lot of convenient, self-congratulatory material". However, it was ridiculous enough that I didn't mind just rolling with it and enjoying the anime. With episode 3, though, I've been currently forced to upgrade my impression of this series' thematics/narrative intention to simply "audacious". The fact is, lol, that this anime (and therefore the story it tells) is associated with a real life entertainment group. Beyond that, even, the voice actors for the series are even members of that organization. In essence, then, what we can interpret is that this anime freely invites/encourages us as the audience to draw parallels between the themes/ideals/challenges of the characters in the anime to the ideals/meanings/purpose of the original group as well. And, by taking itself seriously and attempting to portray a genuine story, it comes startling close to actually succeeding in making us do so.

Basically, this is really fucking impressive self-promotionary material, lol. Which makes it even more fun to watch.
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Old 2012-05-15, 04:56   Link #795
Sylphic
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Caught the latest episode just now. Slightly bitchy girls are great. Haha, thus far, Yuuka and Chieri are my favourite characters.

About the supposed ota/wota divide. I don't really follow idols so I don't know anything about it, and on the one hand I'm sure and it makes sense to me that there really would be that kind of tension between the two fanbases--but actually, aren't there really quite a number of productions which sort of blur the lines between "idol" and "anime"?

For example, I just got done watching a concert DVD for a live Milky Holmes performance. If I understand correctly, Milky Holmes the idol group exists specifically to promote the Milky Holmes media franchise--or alternatively, the Milky Holmes media franchise exists specifically to promote the idol group Milky Holmes. For an anime connected explicitly to a "3D" idol group/franchise, Milky Holmes has managed to be fairly popular.

Then there is the entire aspect of "Live shows" which are associated with anime itself which (I'm under the impression) have gotten significantly popular even beyond these two examples. Symphogear, for example, was promoted heavily in connection with Nana Mizuki. I didn't follow Guilty Crown, but I've heard that there was a live concert ticket associated with the BD volumes. A while ago I also ran across some youtube videos recording live events associated with the musical artist responsible for Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei's opening songs and a number of the female cast from the anime.

Then there is the other seiyuu/idol group associated anime I'm enjoying this season, Natsuiro Kiseki, which features the main girls of Sphere. Basically, the point is that it seems to me like anime otaku aren't actually all that averse to 3D events or promotions associated with their anime. Just as there are anime which exist in specific connection to certain real world idols/performers (AKB0048, Natsuiro Kiseki, Milky Holmes, arguably Symphogear), there is also a lot of crossover from seiyuu/anime productions into idol-like activities. So in that light, is it really completely accurate to say that (I dunno, like for example: the majority of) idol wota and anime ota hate each other?


Anyway, back to the AKB0048 anime. lol, episode 3 was really something. Back when I was watching episode 1 I was pervaded, to an extent, with a strong sense of "although the execution is impressive, this show's themes constitute essentially a whole lot of convenient, self-congratulatory material". However, it was ridiculous enough that I didn't mind just rolling with it and enjoying the anime. With episode 3, though, I've been currently forced to upgrade my impression of this series' thematics/narrative intention to simply "audacious". The fact is, lol, that this anime (and therefore the story it tells) is associated with a real life entertainment group. Beyond that, even, the voice actors for the series are even members of that organization. In essence, then, what we can interpret is that this anime freely invites/encourages us as the audience to draw parallels between the themes/ideals/challenges of the characters in the anime to the ideals/meanings/purpose of the original group as well. And, by taking itself seriously and attempting to portray a genuine story, it comes startling close to actually succeeding in making us do so.

Basically, this is really fucking impressive self-promotionary material, lol. Which makes it even more fun to watch.
I wouldn't say that otaku and wota hate each other but they have their differences which are quite significant. Otaku don't really have anything against 3D as long as it's affiliated with something 2D. Look at how otaku embrace their seiyuu and singers for their roles. And then after the seiyuu or singers become famous enough they command their own following. Look at Nana Mizuki, May'n, Kugimiya Rie, Toyosaki Aki, and Hirano Aya (before she screwed herself over) as examples of fame extending far beyond 2D. There are a bunch of idols that have been born out of voice acting roles. The most prominent examples probably being Nakagawa Shouko and Imai Asami.

But this is the point I was trying to raise before, these actors are popular because they do something good (i.e. singing or voice acting or being ) and their fame is born from that. Otaku worship moe but they also worship ability. Look at Nico Nico Douga and how Otaku will worship composers for hatsune miku that are good or good dancers or good musicians.

When you look at AKB48 members, they're not actually good at anything. They don't blow you away with their dance. They definitely don't blow you away with their singing. While this may suffice for the pop world, this is insufficient for otaku. They don't worship someone because they look good. Hell, 2D will always look better.

The otaku market is actually viewed as easy pickings by the record industry and fast track for singers who can't get a breakthrough. This is because once otaku embrace something, they will embrace it maniacally. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to get their attention. AKB is not alone in achieving 0 traction with otaku. Sphere has been trying for AGES. That's why Natsuiro Kiseki is a god send for them. Momoiro Clover, and 9ine are also spectacular examples of complete and utter failure in this regard.

Also, this last part is my opinion, but one thing that does bug some otaku is that wota are very outwardly wota. Otaku tend to be more in the closet type. As such, otaku find wota disturbing when they see their outward displays of passion. Like today I was walking in Akihabara, and an ad came on for an AKB song. All these wota burst into some sort dance, at the sight of their favorite idols on a public TV screen. The rest of us otaku just shook our heads in disgust and moved on.

Oh I have a question.

What is that jingle that the AKB successors burst into when Nagisa tells them that arguing is bad?

I only just realized In Your Position! SET! is actually part of Beginner. I thought the lady was just bursting into some random Engrish :O
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Old 2012-05-15, 07:22   Link #796
Arturia Polaris
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This show is SURPRISINGLY good.

Songs are good, cute girls, Mecha, what more is there to ask?

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Old 2012-05-15, 08:06   Link #797
Raiga
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What is that jingle that the AKB successors burst into when Nagisa tells them that arguing is bad?
That's also part of Beginner.
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Old 2012-05-15, 09:50   Link #798
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Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
Man. At the end of that scene I was thinking. Oh no Chieri is gone already? Oh well I guess she can add motivation to Nagisa and friends. That's good too! That scene looked like they were sending her to heaven.

The battle scene was great, but what exactly were the girls supposed to do against giant robots with nothing more than small caliber assault rifles and hand grenades vs the equivalent of a main battle tank. Hmmm...

I introduced this show to a bunch of otaku I know. Some of them ran away immediately after hearing Aitakatta, but a few stuck around. Maybe this show can bridge the gap between ota and wota?

Even I'm having this strange fascination with AKB right now. Spent al night watching AKBINGO. Minegishi is amazing. Why is she not top 10 grrr
I became familiar with akb48 by watching mendol, since it has not been mentioned before in this topic I suggest people to watch it.
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Old 2012-05-15, 12:05   Link #799
mochichan
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Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
I became familiar with akb48 by watching mendol, since it has not been mentioned before in this topic I suggest people to watch it.
I only watched Mendol for my NO3B sub unit but tbh....their acting was so bad....
Majisuka Gakuen would be better. Even with the bad actings..at least you see the girls beat up each other.
just don't watch season 2...

btw~ this should be requirement training of all wannabe idols

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Old 2012-05-15, 17:36   Link #800
SolarAquarion
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Seriously, where is the fudoish character in this anime?
Spoiler for Zen Fudo:
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