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Old 2012-05-16, 00:28   Link #21461
Sugetsu
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Join Date: Nov 2003
That article on Mexico is so deluded of reality... It misses the most obvious point on Mexican conflict.

The reason why Mexico is in the mess it is today is because of 2 things:

1: After a bloody struggle, Colombia has finally managed to kick out most of its drugs lords out of the country. It still produces drugs, but no where near at the rate it once did ten years ago. Colombia was in the same bad shape as Mexico is now, if not worse, back then.

The drug cartels migrated to the next most logical target, Mexico, and now that country got a taste of what Colombia was like 10 years ago.

2: As long as drugs are deemed illegal the vicious cycle will go on. I am sure Mexico will manage to get its crisis under control, but then another country will become the next major drug hub. My money is on Bolivia; that country will provide an excellent environment for the drug cartels to flourish should Mexico become too unstable for them.

In conclusion, so long as there is a demand in the US, someone will provide the supply. The war on drugs in the biggest failure in history. It has ruined many countries, many lives, created organized crime and gangs, and it hasn't solved any problems.

I am very sure, that government officials and corporations in the US are also under the influence of drug money. After all illegal drugs is the 3rd most profitable business in the world after OIL and arms. In other words, there is a good incentive to keep the "war on drugs" going.
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Old 2012-05-16, 00:38   Link #21462
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post

I am very sure, that government officials and corporations in the US are also under the influence of drug money. After all illegal drugs is the 3rd most profitable business in the world after OIL and arms. In other words, there is a good incentive to keep the "war on drugs" going.
I saw this phenomenon in the Cold War as a defense contractor. There was an influential faction on both the US and Soviet side that *liked* the dangerous status quo because it gave them influence, power, and sometimes wealth. It doesn't have to be an active corruption or connection.

The enforcement and "law&order" faction in the US *likes* the War on Drugs because it gives them corrosive power, influence, and wealth.

I'm certainly not denying that there are quite likely "on the take" connections... just saying that some people use chaos and uncertainty to improve their status, authority, and power. Peace would interfere with that.
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Old 2012-05-16, 00:40   Link #21463
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think that what Jorge was trying to say was that the reason why Mexico is the way it is today is because the united States has systematically tried to keep it from forming a secure and coherent government, as it would go against US interests to have a powerful country on the US's southern border. And likewise, to the American right Mexico (and Mexicans) have always been a threat.
the majority of people in the uUS would love a stable and coherent government in Mexico. If nothig else the illegal immagriants form SA would stop in Mexico instead moving further North.

Quote:
And historically it's true, since Mexico's independence, the United States repeatedly attacked and undermined it's nascent government.
Repeatedly? US and Mexico fought only 1 war, 2 if you count Texas.

Quote:
He also seems to, quite rightly, see that Mexico's problems are internal in nature, but he also, quite rightly, sees that many of the historic reasons for those problems originate in Mexico's relationship with the United States. Even the Drug Wars is largely fueled by money and weapons coming from the United States. If Mexico didn't border the USA, it would likely be a lot better off.
Mexico's problem is 95% of its own making. US didn't force a PRI dictatorship on Mexico for a century. Mexico develop that on its own.
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Old 2012-05-16, 00:55   Link #21464
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
In other words, there is a good incentive to keep the "war on drugs" going.
One of the first things you learn in Sociology is that there is function in dysfunction. It's not just the illegal drugs. Little is done about the very big issue of legal drug abuse either. Link is to NPR talking about Florida's drug clinic problem, which is nationwide.

In turn this feeds arms dealing, human trafficking, slavery, prostitution, human rights violations, well....you name it. Not many people understand that there is a very real, very disturbing, and very large network of human trafficking in the US for example. When you mention it, most people think it's illegal immigrants or something, but sadly it isn't. It's women, girls, often very young and underage, kidnapped and forced into doing things no human should ever be forced to do. It happens all the time, right under the noses of the population, and very few people talk about it.

EDIT: @Vexx: It's notable that Star Trek has a history of social commentary, in particular the "Cold War" between Klingons and the Federation in "The Undiscovered Country". This line from General Chang in the movie came to mind when I read your post:

Quote:
Oh, now be honest, Captain, warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."
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Old 2012-05-16, 01:10   Link #21465
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the majority of people in the uUS would love a stable and coherent government in Mexico. If nothig else the illegal immagriants form SA would stop in Mexico instead moving further North.
Yes, but the current unstable situation is very good for the weapon's industry.

Quote:
Repeatedly? US and Mexico fought only 1 war, 2 if you count Texas.
The US intervened in Mexican domestic politics, for instance, during the Mexican revolution of the 1910s, the United States supported Mexico's dictator Porfirio Diaz.
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Old 2012-05-16, 03:50   Link #21466
ganbaru
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Greeks pull funds from banks; emergency cabinet to be named
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84D07X20120516

Key to Universal-EMI decision: Has music business lost control?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84F06120120516

edit: U.N. criticizes Canada for letting people go hungry
http://ca.reuters.com/article/domest...84F0YR20120516
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2012-05-16 at 14:25.
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Old 2012-05-16, 16:44   Link #21467
AnimeFan188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Greeks pull funds from banks; emergency cabinet to be named
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84D07X20120516
Greek banks may be nearing complete collapse:

"There are indicators that the run on Greek banks is already over, leaving many
institutions near complete collapse. Depositors have pulled out a record amount
of money in the last 10 days and there are reports that the ECB is no longer
willing to lend to either them or the Greek central bank, which is also in a
precarious situation.

Since May 6, depositors fearful over a Greek exit from the Euro have taken more
than $6.42 billion out of the nation's banks, with $898 million coming on Monday
alone. May 6 was the day of the last round of Greek elections where anti-bailout
parties received most of the votes cast. Monday was the deadline for Greece's
political parties to form a government. Their failure to do that means a new round
of elections will be held on June 17."

See:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_1...lete-collapse/
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Old 2012-05-16, 18:10   Link #21468
AnimeFan188
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The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

"People who don't finish college are more likely to receive food stamps than are
those who go to graduate school. The rolls of people on public assistance are
dominated by people with less education. Nevertheless, the percentage of
graduate-degree holders who receive food stamps or some other aid more than
doubled between 2007 and 2010.

During that three-year period, the number of people with master's degrees who
received food stamps and other aid climbed from 101,682 to 293,029, and the
number of people with Ph.D.'s who received assistance rose from 9,776 to 33,655,
according to tabulations of microdata done by Austin Nichols, a senior researcher
with the Urban Institute. He drew on figures from the 2008 and 2011 Current
Population Surveys done by the U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of
Labor."

See:

https://chronicle.com/article/From-G...ool-to/131795/
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Old 2012-05-16, 18:54   Link #21469
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Iran flouts U.N. sanctions, sends arms to Syria: panel
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84F14520120516
Quote:
Syria remains the top destination for Iranian arms shipments in violation of a U.N. Security Council ban on weapons exports by the Islamic Republic, according to a confidential report on Iran sanctions-busting seen by Reuters on Wednesday
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Old 2012-05-17, 08:09   Link #21470
SeijiSensei
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Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Questionable Police Procedures in Trayvon Martin Shooting

The Sanford police had Martin's body in the morgue for thirteen hours before identifying it, when Martin's father called in a missing-person report. If they had knocked on more doors in the gated community, they would have learned that Trayvon was visiting the apartment of his father's girlfriend that evening. They also spent days trying to get his cell phone password and having a forensics expert take the phone apart. Ultimately they subpoenaed Martin's phone records, but why didn't they do that at the outset? As one commentator to the Times wrote, maybe the Sanford PD needs to watch a few more police-procedural shows on TV so they learn a bit about investigation methods and forensics.
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Old 2012-05-17, 10:17   Link #21471
MrTerrorist
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Diamond Jubilee: Spain's Queen Sofia cancels UK visit
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Old 2012-05-17, 10:54   Link #21472
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Key to Universal-EMI decision: Has music business lost control?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84F06120120516
Link is broken. Here it is.
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Old 2012-05-17, 11:37   Link #21473
flying ^
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tidbits

Trayvon Martin update:

[...]New details emerged on Wednesday regarding the condition of Martin's body. Wounds found on the 17-year-old's knuckles may support George Zimmerman's claim that the unarmed teenager assaulted him before he was fatally shot, CBS News reports.

A responder at the crime scene told CBS News that he and others saw wounds on the knuckles of one of Martin's hands as he lay dead on this lawn. This suggests that Martin had thrown a punch.
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Old 2012-05-17, 11:41   Link #21474
GDB
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They need an autopsy this long after the fact to reveal wounds on his knuckles that bystanders supposedly saw? Sounds like BS to me.
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Old 2012-05-17, 13:07   Link #21475
mangamuscle
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Oh my, seems am a little late to the party, but here I go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Heh, here's an idea Jorge -- fix the problem. Mexico is effectively a failed state unless it can deal with these modern feudal warlords.
We would already have a long time ago, but there is a little problem in your assumption, TBT this is an economical problem, not a drugs or violence problem. Money flows from the north due to drug-trafficking and that money is used to buy assault weapons in the USA (something many politicians in cohots with the NRA have denied even tough the proof is there). To solve this problem weapons and ammunition would have to stop coming to Mexico from the USA, it is imposible to close the border, but it is quite posible to stop weapon trafficking if it comer by sea (from china or russia) or by land (on the south we have a tiny frontier that can be easily closed if need be). In the end the real problem is the USA and as you have said, the weapons industry does not want this to change, they are making too much money out of our misery. The problem is no different from the blood diamonds problem in africa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the majority of people in the US would love a stable and coherent government in Mexico. If nothig else the illegal immagriants form SA would stop in Mexico instead moving further North.
You fail to realize two things. What the majority thinks is worth a damn nowadays in the USA, what the lobbysts want, now THAT is important. To stop cold in its tracks illegal immigration you only need to stop paying illegal immigrant for their work, but that will not happen since the USA was built upon slave labor, then upon immigrant labor and now upon illegal immigrant labor (only because a shift in strategy, a hundred years ago to become an american citizen you only needed to sign a paper).

Quote:
Repeatedly? US and Mexico fought only 1 war, 2 if you count Texas.
Alqaeda has not fought even one war with the USA but everyone agrees alqaeda messed with the USA, in your opinion how many wars need to be fought to mess with the interests of a foreign country?

Quote:
Mexico's problem is 95% of its own making. US didn't force a PRI dictatorship on Mexico for a century. Mexico develop that on its own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The US intervened in Mexican domestic politics, for instance, during the Mexican revolution of the 1910s, the United States supported Mexico's dictator Porfirio Diaz.
I do not believe the USA suported Porfirio Diaz and the reason is simple, who do you think sold the so called revolutionaries the weapons to fight against porfirio diaz? The USA weapon industry, if the USA goverment wanted to support Diaz they would have stopped the weapn supply and ended the revolution before it even started. The USA was never bothered by the lack of democracy in mexico during the 70 years the PRI ruled, in a sense that is support for a goverment, during the same period the USA did denounced cuba, the USSR and china for their lack of democracy.
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Old 2012-05-17, 15:14   Link #21476
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Key to Universal-EMI decision: Has music business lost control?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84F06120120516
http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_th...lion_ipod.html

Copyright math. Gotta love it.

Do they seriously think anyone believes that the music industry only makes half of what it did in 2000, and it's the fault of piracy? Anyone who believes that load of horseshit I've got some oceanfront property on Mars to sell them!
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Old 2012-05-17, 16:02   Link #21477
SeijiSensei
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Most commentaries I read from people without an axe to grind attribute most of the decline in major-label revenues to the replacement of whole-CD purchases with sales of individual tracks. Piracy has little or nothing to do with that trend.
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Old 2012-05-17, 16:21   Link #21478
AnimeFan188
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Why Women Choose Bad Boys

"Women choose bad boys because their hormones make them, new research
suggests. When ovulating a woman's hormones influence who she sees as good
potential fathers, and they specifically pick sexier men over obviously more
dependable men."

See:

http://www.livescience.com/20294-wom...-bad-boys.html
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Old 2012-05-17, 16:27   Link #21479
Dhomochevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Most commentaries I read from people without an axe to grind attribute most of the decline in major-label revenues to the replacement of whole-CD purchases with sales of individual tracks. Piracy has little or nothing to do with that trend.
Except there is no decline in revenue.
It's either stable or growing.

Of course you should only trust the statistics, that you have faked yourself, but googling for some numbers brings up a pretty consistent trend.
Random site with numbers from Google hits:
http://grabstats.com/statcategorymain.asp?StatCatID=9
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Old 2012-05-17, 17:44   Link #21480
flying ^
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lotsa Disco-era people are falling like flies lately... like the beegees and the guy who sang 'Disco Inferno'... and now.....

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