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Old 2012-05-18, 01:42   Link #961
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
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The answer to that is part of the mystery. It is a sequel. The question is why exactly this Earth, which clearly isn't the one we used to know, has Scub and Secrets and Eureka falling from the sky for no apparent reason.
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Old 2012-05-18, 01:52   Link #962
Guardian Enzo
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As to the question of Fleur's treatment of Ao, how kind are 14 year-old girls to 12 year-old boys, generally speaking? I don't find that aspect especially unrealistic.

And I do think she was a bit more cordial to him this time - mostly because she could see from the way Bruno's death impacted him that Ao was a good soul. As I've said in my blog posts, I think the situation is uglier than it appears at GenBleu - and it doesn't appear all that pretty. I think the pilots are well aware that there's a kind of charade going on - they pretend to give the kids normal lives, pretend their lives are the top priority - but kids still die. And she probably feels lousy to see Ao getting drawn into that.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:07   Link #963
OceanBlue
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
As to the question of Fleur's treatment of Ao, how kind are 14 year-old girls to 12 year-old boys, generally speaking? I don't find that aspect especially unrealistic.

And I do think she was a bit more cordial to him this time - mostly because she could see from the way Bruno's death impacted him that Ao was a good soul. As I've said in my blog posts, I think the situation is uglier than it appears at GenBleu - and it doesn't appear all that pretty. I think the pilots are well aware that there's a kind of charade going on - they pretend to give the kids normal lives, pretend their lives are the top priority - but kids still die. And she probably feels lousy to see Ao getting drawn into that.
It's easy for me to forget their ages when I think about these things. I'm so used to children who are basically adults with slight attitude issues that it's hard to look at it in that perspective .

To be honest, though, I don't think their relationship is really that complex or she was being that considerate. He was obviously tired, and she remarked that he wouldn't be too useful for whatever they were trying to do anyway. I do agree that Generation Bleu is definitely fishy though.

Edit: Of course, that probably won't change how shocked everyone will be if they find out Generation Bleu has been operating with an ulterior motive.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:16   Link #964
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I don't have a problem with how Fleur treats Ao. I mean, why should we expect her to treat him like someone she is familiar with or really knows? He's pretty much a stranger who has just joined the team, and no one really knows much about him. He doesn't factor into how she evaluates situations because there's no reason for her to. If they have gotten along fine without him so far, in an urgent situation I don't see why she would feel he is going to be particularly vital. If she did, it would actually be unrealistic because it shows that she has no self-confidence in being able to operate without the new guy who literally just joined the team, simply because he's the "main character" of the show. That would be bad writing.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:16   Link #965
Chaos2Frozen
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Rather than their age, I feel that the reason for their treatment of Ao has more to do with their profession- which is somewhat militaristic by nature and involves putting their lives on the line every time they go to work.


We've all seen this before in other shows and in other risky professions; the FNG has to prove himself to the all the Regulars before they accept him into the brotherhood... Or in this case, the sisterhood. Before, Ao was a civilian caught up in the middle of everything, but now that he has voluntarily signed up for this life so they're not going to carry him anymore than they have to.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:21   Link #966
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...have we decided if this is a direct sequel to E7?
Nope.

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is it some alternate telling/sequel?
Maybe
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:29   Link #967
creb
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
The answer to that is part of the mystery. It is a sequel. The question is why exactly this Earth, which clearly isn't the one we used to know, has Scub and Secrets and Eureka falling from the sky for no apparent reason.
Ah, I see.

Weren't the Corallians supposed to be moving on at the end of E7? And that whether they showed up again would be dependent on the relationship between Renton and Eureka?

With Eureka showing up on the seemingly real Earth without Renton, perhaps that's why all these Scub and Secrets have started to show up again. Though, didn't Eureka (and Renton) have a big gem in their heads by the end of the series? Or is it assumed that when they vanished, they essentially de-materialized, so Eureka materializing on the real Earth could easily have done so without the gem from before?

I guess it's too early, yet, to be really speculating.

I see that people seem to think that shape changer is another human-form Corrallian. That'd probably be the best guess, for now. I wonder what he's searching for. Maybe it's just, 'Where's Renton?'
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:36   Link #968
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
As to the question of Fleur's treatment of Ao, how kind are 14 year-old girls to 12 year-old boys, generally speaking? I don't find that aspect especially unrealistic.
Considering she's mature enough to understand the ways of combat, I think she should be able to understand that this isn't exactly the situation to be thinking like an average 14 year old girl and an average 12 year old boy.

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I don't have a problem with how Fleur treats Ao. I mean, why should we expect her to treat him like someone she is familiar with or really knows? He's pretty much a stranger who has just joined the team, and no one really knows much about him. He doesn't factor into how she evaluates situations because there's no reason for her to. If they have gotten along fine without him so far, in an urgent situation I don't see why she would feel he is going to be particularly vital. If she did, it would actually be unrealistic because it shows that she has no self-confidence in being able to operate without the new guy who literally just joined the team, simply because he's the "main character" of the show. That would be bad writing.
Because he's their teammate? He's not just some kid who's hanging around for nothing. She's obviously mature enough to understand combat, so she should be well aware that you don't shun a teammate and treat him like some unwanted outsider. It's not unrealistic at all if she were to include him in the situation, because he is part of the situation. The simple fact that he was brought along on this mission in the first place means he's part of their team. What team doesn't bring in a new guy into their plans? Isn't the whole point of a new guy to have him/her take part and help? How would counting a member of the team in on the situation be a lack of self-confidence?
Plus, it doesn't help your point that Ao did an extremely great job in the previous attacks alone, and then nearly soloed this mission.
It would be different if she were just trying to ease him into the team, but she's been acting a bit over-the-top superior by not letting him call her normally and then being willing to cut him out of the loop entirely this episode and going so far as to call him useless. (only to watch him nearly single-handedly beat the bad guys )
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:43   Link #969
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Considering she's mature enough to understand the ways of combat, I think she should be able to understand that this isn't exactly the situation to be thinking like an average 14 year old girl and an average 12 year old boy.
I think the fact that this isn't the case it exactly the point. Child pilots are such a cliché in anime by now that we expect them to act like little soldiers, apart from the times they're awkwardly romancing each other. Comparatively speaking I think AO is attacking this scenario from a realistic perspective - 14 year-old girls act like 14 year-old girls, kids die and adults have to wrestle with the morality of that.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:43   Link #970
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Because he's their teammate? He's not just some kid who's hanging around for nothing. She's obviously mature enough to understand combat, so she should be well aware that you don't shun a teammate and treat him like some unwanted outsider. It's not unrealistic at all if she were to include him in the situation, because he i]is[/i] part of the situation. The simple fact that he was brought along on this mission in the first place means he's part of their team. What team doesn't bring in a new guy into their plans? Isn't the whole point of a new guy to have him/her take part and help? How would relying on a member of the team be a lack of self-confidence?
Plus, it doesn't help your point that Ao did an extremely great job in the previous attack, and then nearly soloed this mission.

While unfair, that's how it works in this profession- If Ao can't handle abit of harsh treatment, how are they suppose to trust him went things get REALLY dicey in the future? Put yourself if their shoes if you're a soldier, could you trust that person to watch your back?

And didn't they agree not to bring him because he needed the rest? Their whole reasoning basically boils down to him not being able to perform if he's tired and hasn't slept in days.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:44   Link #971
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It doesn't matter how powerful Nirvash is. If Ao is not prepared for a mission, he is not needed. There is no need to wait for him or be concerned that he is not coming along. They've handled missions before without Ao and if they need to they will continue to. If Ao is ready and willing on a mission, you don't see any of the characters rejecting him or getting in his way. Context is everything.

Anyway it's not like they were going out of their way to hurt Ao's feelings. He was the one who couldn't stay awake, and he isn't exactly a regular part of their team at this point anyway. He knows that as well, and he doesn't seem to be surprised that people aren't exactly treating him like God's gift to Generation Bleu.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:53   Link #972
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He was the one who couldn't stay awake, and he isn't exactly a regular part of their team at this point anyway. He knows that as well, and he doesn't seem to be surprised that people aren't exactly treating him like God's gift to Generation Bleu.
He did have that moment where he felt worthless and unneeded because they left him behind, though. At least they did a quick job of clearing that up. I really liked the part Chloe played in it. He still might not really have a place on the team yet, but at least now he doesn't feel as if no one on Pied Piper cares if he exists.

Edit: Speaking of his place on the team, it kind of bothers me how useful Ao is right off the bat. I can attribute some of it to the Nirvash, but Ao just seems to be way too competent in fighting Secrets. It's just weird that he was able to do what Goldilocks couldn't do so easily considering his lack of experience.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:53   Link #973
Reckoner
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Well I decided to watch this series finally today and caught up on all 6 episodes.

3 episodes in I was ready to proclaim the return of the BONES of old, but the next 3 episodes after that were really really poor.

I'm not sure why BONES thinks they need to mess with their setting and cast so much, a tried and true formula of success to make this series. Only kids can pilot these mechas, they should've said only underaged girls can pilot these mechas besides Ao, so subtle .

Elena is ranking right now for worst character of the season. Her only purpose seems to be to cite otaku references and be off kilter. Terribly uninteresting.

I don't know, besides Ao, Naru, and the gramps, and perhaps Gazelle, I'm totally not feeling this new cast whatsoever. Fleur is ok at best.

Not awful, but disappointing stuff episodes 4-6. I really hope this series shapes up but the developments of episode 6 were pretty bad. Team goldilocks should get off the screen too. They're an eye sore.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:59   Link #974
creb
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Well I decided to watch this series finally today and caught up on all 6 episodes.

3 episodes in I was ready to proclaim the return of the BONES of old, but the next 3 episodes after that were really really poor.

I'm not sure why BONES thinks they need to mess with their setting and cast so much, a tried and true formula of success to make this series. Only kids can pilot these mechas, they should've said only underaged girls can pilot these mechas besides Ao, so subtle .

Elena is ranking right now for worst character of the season. Her only purpose seems to be to cite otaku references and be off kilter. Terribly uninteresting.

I don't know, besides Ao, Naru, and the gramps, and perhaps Gazelle, I'm totally not feeling this new cast whatsoever. Fleur is ok at best.

Not awful, but disappointing stuff episodes 4-6. I really hope this series shapes up but the developments of episode 6 were pretty bad. Team goldilocks should get off the screen too. They're an eye sore.
While all the young girls are eyeroll-inducing, I think it's been far less distasteful then it could be. Young girls are a thing in anime, so if Bones can deliver a good story, I can forgive them for having a bunch of those girls in the show. They could have easily increased the young girl effect a thousand-fold, so I consider ourselves lucky.

Episode seven finally got the ball rolling (a little), so I do think there's going to be more to this story than some boy-in-a-harem.

Edit: woops. It's late. It was actually episode six, so if you're still not thinking the story is going anywhere, oh well.

Last edited by creb; 2012-05-18 at 03:14.
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Old 2012-05-18, 03:44   Link #975
duckroll
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Edit: Speaking of his place on the team, it kind of bothers me how useful Ao is right off the bat. I can attribute some of it to the Nirvash, but Ao just seems to be way too competent in fighting Secrets. It's just weird that he was able to do what Goldilocks couldn't do so easily considering his lack of experience.
Doesn't seem to have much to do with experience here honestly. It just seems like Generation Bleu should have invested more money into building mechs with legs and proper boosters, instead of crappy odd-shaped ones with dumb transformations!
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Old 2012-05-18, 03:54   Link #976
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
While all the young girls are eyeroll-inducing, I think it's been far less distasteful then it could be. Young girls are a thing in anime, so if Bones can deliver a good story, I can forgive them for having a bunch of those girls in the show. They could have easily increased the young girl effect a thousand-fold, so I consider ourselves lucky.

Episode seven finally got the ball rolling (a little), so I do think there's going to be more to this story than some boy-in-a-harem.

Edit: woops. It's late. It was actually episode six, so if you're still not thinking the story is going anywhere, oh well.
I wasn't saying the story isn't going anywhere. It's certainly moving along and things are happening. Just things I am not very keen on seeing here. A shape shifting supernatural being? I mean sure E7 always had supernatural stuff, but usually those were psychedelic dream world stuff involving the scrub coral. Nothing like this. Creative license is of course theirs, but this doesn't feel like it'll be that interesting to me.

I think what's harming this show to me the most is simply the pilots besides Ao. Fleur is ok as I said, but Elena is a really awful character. Team Goldilocks just seemed very stupid to me as well. I just kinda miss the adult pilots of E7. More colorful and diverse cast there. In a way this is starting to feel a little bit like Last Exile Fam with its females.
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Old 2012-05-18, 04:41   Link #977
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He did have that moment where he felt worthless and unneeded because they left him behind, though. At least they did a quick job of clearing that up. I really liked the part Chloe played in it. He still might not really have a place on the team yet, but at least now he doesn't feel as if no one on Pied Piper cares if he exists.

Edit: Speaking of his place on the team, it kind of bothers me how useful Ao is right off the bat. I can attribute some of it to the Nirvash, but Ao just seems to be way too competent in fighting Secrets. It's just weird that he was able to do what Goldilocks couldn't do so easily considering his lack of experience.
This is a really technical point, but they mentioned it in ep 2 or 3. The Nirvash has all of its engines turned on and, for IFOs, is insanely fast. For as advanced as the other crafts after (it's only been 10 years, so it's not a huge progression), they seem to be designed around a much heavier weapons load out. So, they're much better against multiple targets, where as the Nirvash, much like the original one, is designed for close-quarters combat. These two sets of Secrets have been more open to Speed Attacks, especially the episode 6 one, which is the reason Ao & the Nirvash are so useful.

Though, if you put this Nirvash with all of the versions of from the TV series, I just realized that I believe the Nirvash has activated every power that the Buster Machine mecha had. (From Gunbuster/Aim for the Top!)

I actually did find a relationship between E7 and Gunbuster: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ple.php?id=264 Miyatake-san, who also works with Kawamori a lot, did a lot of design work on E7 TV and mecha design on Gunbuster. Though I'd assume it's more homage (especially the episode 50 antics), but it's still pretty fun.


Oh, and DAMN, whoever Truth is... he/she/it is going to be a beast of a problem.
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Old 2012-05-18, 04:52   Link #978
Shinji103
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Comparatively speaking I think AO is attacking this scenario from a realistic perspective - 14 year-old girls act like 14 year-old girls, kids die and adults have to wrestle with the morality of that.
Sure, but that doesn't mean Fleur has to act unfriendly.

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
While unfair, that's how it works in this profession- If Ao can't handle abit of harsh treatment, how are they suppose to trust him went things get REALLY dicey in the future? Put yourself if their shoes if you're a soldier, could you trust that person to watch your back?

And didn't they agree not to bring him because he needed the rest? Their whole reasoning basically boils down to him not being able to perform if he's tired and hasn't slept in days.
It's not about "fair" at all. It's about common sense and courtesy. And it's not about how Ao handles it (and he's clearly handling it well enough), it's about how Fleur is treating the "new guy." (you don't need to be a hardened 30 year old combat veteran to know you want to get along with your teammates, new or old)
Clearly Ao has the talent to be a formal pilot for Pied Piper; he did very well in his first two battles. And that's before considering he had absolutely no training or experience then. And then this battle happened almost immediately after those first two. It's pretty obvious to anyone how good he'll be when he's refined and battle-hardened He's already shown he's a good pilot, and here he did by himself what two experienced pilots couldn't, so where would any doubt in his skills come from?

The bridge crew agreed on him needing rest; Fleur said he'd be useless anyway.

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It doesn't matter how powerful Nirvash is. If Ao is not prepared for a mission, he is not needed. There is no need to wait for him or be concerned that he is not coming along. They've handled missions before without Ao and if they need to they will continue to. If Ao is ready and willing on a mission, you don't see any of the characters rejecting him or getting in his way. Context is everything.
I'm not sure who said anything about the Nirvash, but Ao has shown he has what it takes to be on Pied Piper twice before this episode. We've seen that the common strategy for Generation Blue is just to sit around and shoot from outside the enemy's detection range. Lots of people can do that. Ao has shown the skills to dive in and hit them up close while they fight back.
In the context of this episode, whether or not he needed the rest/was ready or not, my point is that Fleur calling him "useless," especially with Ao's great track record, was harsh and uncalled for.

Quote:
Anyway it's not like they were going out of their way to hurt Ao's feelings. He was the one who couldn't stay awake, and he isn't exactly a regular part of their team at this point anyway. He knows that as well, and he doesn't seem to be surprised that people aren't exactly treating him like God's gift to Generation Bleu.
I know they weren't going out of their way to shun him, but Fleur could tone it down a bit. And again, it's not about Ao falling asleep (which was perfectly reasonable since he had gotten almost no rest since the attack in episode 1), it's about Fleur going the extra mile to call him "useless," when she's seen firsthand that he's not. He's rough around the edges, but who's an ace pilot when they first hop in the cockpit? Ao did very well for his first few fights, and he already did better in this one.
I'm not sure what Ao not expecting special treatment has to do with Fleur being unnecessarily harsh, either.

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Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Edit: Speaking of his place on the team, it kind of bothers me how useful Ao is right off the bat. I can attribute some of it to the Nirvash, but Ao just seems to be way too competent in fighting Secrets. It's just weird that he was able to do what Goldilocks couldn't do so easily considering his lack of experience.
He's Eureka's son.
Eureka was automatically a gifted pilot as well, especially due to her being a Corallian. So it makes sense that her son would share this.
Of course, how much exactly this series has to do with Coralians is still uknown, but it's perfectly obvious that Ao isn't a normal human (the whole hair-"magically"-returning-to-blue thing) and we know that Eureka (whether she's the original Eureka or an alternate-universe Eureka) is also special in some way, so it's logical to assume her son is special in the same/a similar way.
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Old 2012-05-18, 06:44   Link #979
Ashaman
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Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Edit: Speaking of his place on the team, it kind of bothers me how useful Ao is right off the bat. I can attribute some of it to the Nirvash, but Ao just seems to be way too competent in fighting Secrets. It's just weird that he was able to do what Goldilocks couldn't do so easily considering his lack of experience.
He also had intel from Chloe(?) on what to expect in CQC. He knew that if he destroyed his platform, another one would come out. Goldilocks didn't.


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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
He's Eureka's son.
Eureka was automatically a gifted pilot as well, especially due to her being a Corallian. So it makes sense that her son would share this.
Of course, how much exactly this series has to do with Coralians is still uknown, but it's perfectly obvious that Ao isn't a normal human (the whole hair-"magically"-returning-to-blue thing) and we know that Eureka (whether she's the original Eureka or an alternate-universe Eureka) is also special in some way, so it's logical to assume her son is special in the same/a similar way.
To add onto this - Its been implied that Ao is naturally skilled at this kind of thing. I mean, he was driving FP's before he'd hit double digits.
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Old 2012-05-18, 07:34   Link #980
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seriously, that Secret looked like some random giant amusement park ride (from Disneyland?)
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