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Old 2012-05-18, 18:22   Link #8301
Qilin
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Surprisingly, Natsu backed down from his attack by himself, albeit with bit of "convincing" here and there.

Unfortunately, I still dislike his character a lot, and I still believe that Gemma acted without malice in that incident. So yeah. I'm having a hard time changing my view of this event as anything more than breaking-and-entering. The best thing he can do to crumble the guild's philosophy internally would be to beat them in the tournament.

On another note, is there some rule in the tournament battles that says competitors can only fight opponents of the same gender? I'm asking because that's exactly how it has been so far.
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Old 2012-05-18, 18:22   Link #8302
haegar
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Anyway, Sting looks a bit scared, but also eager. Rogue has obviously been struck by Natsu's words; looks like he is prime for switching sides.
That, or he will stay to make things better for which he might have to stand up to not only master but Sting who seems most comfortable with their policy of the strongest, too. This probably wasn't the last we have seen of that topic as nakama inevitably rubs of on those confronted with it XD
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Old 2012-05-18, 18:29   Link #8303
sergel02
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post

On another note, is there some rule in the tournament battles that says competitors can only fight opponents of the same gender? I'm asking because that's exactly how it has been so far.
No, but it's up to fan picks and the King's choice from what we've seen. Erza and Bacchus were gonna fight if the order wasn't messed up. Plus, fans love to see too girls going at it *ahemMiraandJenny*.

It's only day 2 so we'll see what happens in the future.
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Old 2012-05-18, 18:37   Link #8304
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I like the new chick, she has a cool design. If it were bleach that outfit would be blank.
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Old 2012-05-18, 18:39   Link #8305
Randrak42
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I don't get why people say Sting looks scared this chapter...I just see shock, awe and excitement.
For the love of god have Natsu fight one of ST in day 3...
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Old 2012-05-18, 19:38   Link #8306
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
On another note, is there some rule in the tournament battles that says competitors can only fight opponents of the same gender? I'm asking because that's exactly how it has been so far.
You're forgetting Ren vs that one chick from Mermaid Heel.
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Old 2012-05-18, 19:59   Link #8307
Tempest35
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Oh great, it's Ultear 2.0... Ultear won't be happy if she sees her...

~*~

Ultear: ... that brat...she reminds me of myself when I was younger...

Meredy: ...um, is that a good thing?

Ultear: NO! I was a total bitch back then!

Meredy: ...and?

Ultear: What do you mean "...and?"

Meredy: ...um, just that not much has changed...GYAAAAH!!! *gets clobbered*

Ultear: ...hmm, maybe I'll give the Fairy Tail people a hint as to how to beat her... ufuufuufuu~

Meredy: @_@

~*~

Kinda surprised that Natsu did back off like he did, but again, he does prioritize the welfare of his comrades above all else.

And after that, Natsu's only top ten material? Big whoop, he's top ten in Fairy Tail too. xD So this just means that Sabertooth might have a lil more depth to it that I previously thought. Cuz we all know that Fairy Tail's top five isn't out on a team either. But just Gildartz alone is overkill - putting Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, and 'Mystogun' on the same team... just tell everyone else to go home, they have NO chance to say they got a chance. Thankfully, Gildartz is Mashima's 'Deus ex Machina' for Fairy Tail so he won't get used...But seriously, that last spot is contestable between like ten people on their own: Natsu, Grey, Juvia, Gajeel, Fried, Cana, Lucy, (basically, anyone who was at the Tree since they were S-Class applicants). And then Max showed us that the others had not slacked off in the slightest and are at least comparable power to the gang pre-timeskip, which makes them helluva strong too.
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:10   Link #8308
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Oh great, it's Ultear 2.0... Ultear won't be happy if she sees her...

~*~

Ultear: ... that brat...she reminds me of myself when I was younger...

Meredy: ...um, is that a good thing?

Ultear: NO! I was a total bitch back then!

Meredy: ...and?

Ultear: What do you mean "...and?"

Meredy: ...um, just that not much has changed...GYAAAAH!!! *gets clobbered*

Ultear: ...hmm, maybe I'll give the Fairy Tail people a hint as to how to beat her... ufuufuufuu~

Meredy: @_@

~*~

Kinda surprised that Natsu did back off like he did, but again, he does prioritize the welfare of his comrades above all else.

And after that, Natsu's only top ten material? Big whoop, he's top ten in Fairy Tail too. xD So this just means that Sabertooth might have a lil more depth to it that I previously thought. Cuz we all know that Fairy Tail's top five isn't out on a team either. But just Gildartz alone is overkill - putting Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, and 'Mystogun' on the same team... just tell everyone else to go home, they have NO chance to say they got a chance. Thankfully, Gildartz is Mashima's 'Deus ex Machina' for Fairy Tail so he won't get used...But seriously, that last spot is contestable between like ten people on their own: Natsu, Grey, Juvia, Gajeel, Fried, Cana, Lucy, (basically, anyone who was at the Tree since they were S-Class applicants). And then Max showed us that the others had not slacked off in the slightest and are at least comparable power to the gang pre-timeskip, which makes them helluva strong too.
A pissed off Juvia is a pretty bad ass and scary sight to behold...need I direct yall to the Juvia vs Meredy fight? And she was fighting one of the few people with magic that could harm her water body.
Gildartz is really like you said, a walking Deus ex Machina for when he goes "Ok written myself into a corner...GILDARTZ!"
Luxus and Mira have more than proven their worth.
I don't get Erza, she's pretty damn strong and with a matching armor she can destroy most enemies...but her fights feel like her power is downplayed a bit. Nevertheless, she is as much a monster as Mira.
Juvia would be my 5th pick really...provided every enemy threatens Gray when she fights them...

BTW I'm hoping for a lot of Gajeel action. The last time he fought was damn sad, he was taken out while taking out two fodder bad guys...not even against one of the 7 kin...this enraged me so much, seeing Gajeel who is supposed to be strong, get beaten by subordinates of the guys that Natsu and the others were beating left and right.

Oh yes and...THIS MANGA NEEDS MORE MEREDY!
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:16   Link #8309
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post

I still believe that Gemma acted without malice in that incident.
Seriously?

If he had just kicked her out, I might have agreed with you there, but he made her strip naked in front of everyone there, and erase her own guild mark. He wanted to demean her, which strikes me as pretty malicious.
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:31   Link #8310
Qilin
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Seriously?

If he had just kicked her out, I might have agreed with you there, but he made her strip naked in front of everyone there, and erase her own guild mark. He wanted to demean her, which strikes me as pretty malicious.
Huh. I really didn't want to get into this argument again, but oh well.

I think of it as a case of cultural relativity where ST holds radically different values from FT. FT values their "nakama" first and foremost. On the other hand, ST only values strength. If we assume that all their actions were done with this goal in mind, it's understandable that they wouldn't pay attention to "petty" considerations like the welfare of their weaker guild members. Now, if we view the incident from the lens of such a philosophy, it can be interpreted as a warning for anyone who might fail the guild in the future.

Remember, an act is only malicious if a person engages in it out of ill will for another person. If the action is performed with a pragmatic rationale in mind, it would be better classified as extremism.
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:39   Link #8311
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Hades was used as an antagonic character that belonged Grimoire Heart.... and hearing Minerva's name, well, I couldn't help but think of Tartaros dark guild, I wouldn't be surprised if "Zeref, Zeref, Zeref!" guy belong to it as well.
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:46   Link #8312
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Huh. I really didn't want to get into this argument again, but oh well.

I think of it as a case of cultural relativity where ST holds radically different values from FT. FT values their "nakama" first and foremost. On the other hand, ST only values strength. If we assume that all their actions were done with this goal in mind, it's understandable that they wouldn't pay attention to "petty" considerations like the welfare of their weaker guild members. Now, if we view the incident from the lens of such a philosophy, it can be interpreted as a warning for anyone who might fail the guild in the future.

Remember, an act is only malicious if a person engages in it out of ill will for another person. If the action is performed with a pragmatic rationale in mind, it would be better classified as extremism.
I'm kinda thinking of it different but i agree that there may not have been ill will. From what he said he did that not because she lost but because she bet her life and lost. For some odd reason i was thinking he was shaming her as much as possible because she treated her own life so lightly... but that's just a shot in the dark in hopes the tengu isnt really a bad guy.
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Old 2012-05-18, 20:53   Link #8313
Qilin
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^ It's all a matter of personal interpretation. Whichever you want to believe is fine since the clues don't really point one way or the other. I'm just extremely skeptical about labeling a character as evil or malicious just because they do something our "values" don't agree with.
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:00   Link #8314
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Huh. I really didn't want to get into this argument again, but oh well.

I think of it as a case of cultural relativity where ST holds radically different values from FT. FT values their "nakama" first and foremost. On the other hand, ST only values strength. If we assume that all their actions were done with this goal in mind, it's understandable that they wouldn't pay attention to "petty" considerations like the welfare of their weaker guild members. Now, if we view the incident from the lens of such a philosophy, it can be interpreted as a warning for anyone who might fail the guild in the future.

Remember, an act is only malicious if a person engages in it out of ill will for another person. If the action is performed with a pragmatic rationale in mind, it would be better classified as extremism.
Like I said, if he had only kicked her out, I would agree with you. However, making her strip naked was completely unnecessary. Simply kicking her out is enough of a warning to the others.

There was no reason to embarrass and demean her like that, other than he wanted to embarrass and demean her
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:09   Link #8315
Qilin
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Like I said, if he had only kicked her out, I would agree with you. However, making her strip naked was completely unnecessary. Simply kicking her out is enough of a warning to the others.

There was no reason to embarrass and demean her like that, other than he wanted to embarrass and demean her
Isn't that a narrow way of looking at it?

Obviously, the objective was to humiliate her to serve as an example for anyone else who might follow in her footsteps, but that doesn't mean it was malicious in any way. His actions were extreme, yes. But completely unnecessary? It's debatable.

Or are you saying that a simple expulsion would be JUST AS effective as humiliating her in front of everyone for the purpose of serving as a deterrent for future failures?
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:09   Link #8316
Log
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Huh. I really didn't want to get into this argument again, but oh well.

I think of it as a case of cultural relativity where ST holds radically different values from FT. FT values their "nakama" first and foremost. On the other hand, ST only values strength. If we assume that all their actions were done with this goal in mind, it's understandable that they wouldn't pay attention to "petty" considerations like the welfare of their weaker guild members. Now, if we view the incident from the lens of such a philosophy, it can be interpreted as a warning for anyone who might fail the guild in the future.

Remember, an act is only malicious if a person engages in it out of ill will for another person. If the action is performed with a pragmatic rationale in mind, it would be better classified as extremism.
So if I lost horribly in a sports club and my coach forces me to strip down in front of every one of my teammates and proceeds to say "you suck, get out of here" as punishment you would only consider it "extreme".

Ok glad to see you have such a high moral standard.

On a side note Natsu didn't get whorfed. Holy shit is this something rare.
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:15   Link #8317
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
So if I lost horribly in a sports club and my coach forces me to strip down in front of every one of my teammates and proceeds to say "you suck, get out of here" as punishment you would only consider it "extreme".

Ok glad to see you have such a high moral standard.
It all depends on the coach's motivation in that case. What you guys seem to not understand is that the label of "malicious" depends on the perpetrator's motivations. It cannot be determined simply by looking at the action in itself.

I like where this is going... I make a logical argument, and you use it to judge my moral standards. Very smooth.
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:32   Link #8318
Log
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It all depends on the coach's motivation in that case. What you guys seem to not understand is that the label of "malicious" depends on the perpetrator's motivations. It cannot be determined simply by looking at the action in itself.
So apparently stripping someone down isn't morally wrong just as long as the motives aren't malicious? Well aren't we a good judge of moral standards here.

Quote:
I like where this is going... I make a logical argument, and you use it to judge my moral standards. Very smooth.
I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I totally meant everything I say. True story.
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:36   Link #8319
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Isn't that a narrow way of looking at it?

Obviously, the objective was to humiliate her to serve as an example for anyone else who might follow in her footsteps, but that doesn't mean it was malicious in any way. His actions were extreme, yes. But completely unnecessary? It's debatable.
Even if I assume that you're right, the fact that someone would use that sort of method as a deterrent marks them as being malicious to me.

Humiliating someone publicly in that sort of way obviously shows that he has no respect for her, or the members of his guild, and that he would use her that way when he intends to get rid of her anyway certainly shows that he means ill will to her.

Quote:
Or are you saying that a simple expulsion would be JUST AS effective as humiliating her in front of everyone for the purpose of serving as a deterrent for future failures?
I would think the fear of getting kicked out would be enough of a deterrent for failure, but the fact is, he humiliated her even while he was intending to get rid of her.
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Old 2012-05-18, 21:38   Link #8320
Qilin
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So apparently stripping someone down isn't morally wrong just as long as the motives aren't malicious? Well aren't we a good judge of moral standards here.
And then here's you putting words into my mouth.

I never said his actions we're wrong. All I said was that they weren't malicious. On that note, have you ever heard of moral relativity? If you even want to deny that, then I guess we won't ever get along.

All that said, I'm not giving judgments on anyone's character in the the way you are.
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