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Old 2012-05-20, 21:00   Link #1801
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigwams View Post
the business model is different now. before they sold games, now they sell licenses to play the game. if you read the fine print, it says you dont own the game. you simply buy a license to play the game. like someone pointed out, games now are more of a service, rather than a product... this certainly applies to D3. that box you have, and those disc, they are yours. but diablo 3? nope, its for rent.
I ask again; why is it that I still pay full price for half a game?
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Old 2012-05-20, 21:18   Link #1802
Wigwams
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Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I ask again; why is it that I still pay full price for half a game?
let me state this much correctly. you DIDNT pay for the game, not even half of it. you paid for the license (permission) to play the game.

you dont get to own diablo 3 for $60. no part, no copy of diablo 3 is owned by you. its all blizzard's property. even 1 ingame gold or some lvl 1 fail loot is blizzard property.

why you paid $60 for a license to play the game? you chose to. blizz never said it was selling diablo 3, blizz is selling diablo 3 licenses. there is a huge difference.

Spoiler for terms:
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Last edited by Wigwams; 2012-05-20 at 21:34.
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Old 2012-05-20, 21:45   Link #1803
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I ask again; why is it that I still pay full price for half a game?
Me thinks you shouldn't have bought the game in the first place VCV.

Quote:
why you paid $60 for a license to play the game? you chose to. blizz never said it was selling diablo 3, blizz is selling diablo 3 licenses. there is a huge difference.
Sigh. That's always been the case. We "buy" the licenses to use the various softwares for each computer.
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Old 2012-05-20, 21:47   Link #1804
DuoRanger
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: who knows?
i'd suggest to everyone here to read this thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149617694
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:16   Link #1805
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoRanger View Post
i'd suggest to everyone here to read this thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149617694
Frankly I don't mind about lost features. This is pretty much the same as when Diablo II first came out. Blizzard would add things into the game progressively over time once the game has stabilised. It's the stuff that are lost forever that I am annoyed with.
Quote:
Me thinks you shouldn't have bought the game in the first place VCV.
Let's just say I am a disgruntled customer. Lack of options.
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:24   Link #1806
Duo Maxwell
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In front of my computer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoRanger View Post
i'd suggest to everyone here to read this thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149617694
Wait, am I the only one who got items with skill modifiers? Why does it sound like no one has them?

Another thing I would like to note, that stacking primary attribute is the worst thing you could do. Well, maybe not worst, but it's certainly not a good thing to do either. Equally distribute primary stats, +dmg and +atk speed actually results in higher dps overall, and I've found that I need pretty much 3 out of 4 attribute to do well in higher difficulty. Heck, even Barbarian needs some int to survive all those Fire Chain Teleporter elite out there.
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:49   Link #1807
Sugetsu
Kurumada's lost child
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigwams View Post
let me state this much correctly. you DIDNT pay for the game, not even half of it. you paid for the license (permission) to play the game.

you dont get to own diablo 3 for $60. no part, no copy of diablo 3 is owned by you. its all blizzard's property. even 1 ingame gold or some lvl 1 fail loot is blizzard property.

why you paid $60 for a license to play the game? you chose to. blizz never said it was selling diablo 3, blizz is selling diablo 3 licenses. there is a huge difference.

There is no excuse for this, as I stated before, in the future, people wont own anything they buy. This will have a big negative impact in society. You can kiss internet goodbye as you know it as well as being able to obtain information easily.

It is really sad that people don't seem to care. They are getting robbed blind by games such as D3, and in their ignorance contributing to a much bigger problem.

I think it is time for me to stop trying to convince you all that Blizzard is ethically wrong and you should you not encourage this kind of business practices. I am not going to change anything by myself anyway.
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:58   Link #1808
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I think it is time for me to stop trying to convince you all that Blizzard is ethically wrong and you should you not encourage this kind of business practices. I am not going to change anything by myself anyway.
Thank you.
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Old 2012-05-20, 23:47   Link #1809
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
So my friend gave me a rare axe and a ruby for my Barbarian, and before he could mention that the ruby was for my axe, I had inserted it into my helmet, not realizing how gems worked between items. I have yet to unlock the Jeweler, so my brother, who has, offered to de-gem it for me.

Now every time he trades me back the helmet and the removed gem, well, the game terminates, with him still having possession of the helmet and the gemstone. We're right baffled by the behavior and I'm starting to get pissed off by it.
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Old 2012-05-20, 23:52   Link #1810
Sagi
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California
This is my first time buying a Blizzard game and I would never again buy another game from them if they continue with their online only. I'm having so many problems with their servers I don't understand how I can't play the game offline.
This is the first game that I have bought that requires you to be connected online to play the game.
After I typed this I'm getting the 3006 error now I can't connect. Lol

Last edited by Sagi; 2012-05-21 at 00:32.
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Old 2012-05-21, 01:28   Link #1811
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Well thank for the answers earlier, guys. Now back to the current debate. I think there're points in both side of this argument.

Firstly, i guess with all of the DRM and what not, we can safely say D3 is actually Diablo Online. It's like Golf or FIFA Online(competitive sports gameroom) , or Gunbound (PvP game room), or Lunia (cooperative game room). You can play as single player all game, or you can party with others (often 3-7) to get through harder mode or earn higher reward. But you can't play offline, save , load to get through difficult stage and enjoy the content

If you look at it that way. Lag is expected for online game. Huge congestion during launch is expected. Server maintenance downtime should not happen, but also should be expected. Short gameplay and depend on end game with lots of repetition and mostly competitiveness between players (not pvp but gears superiority in this case) is obvious. Same on "lasting appeal" aspect, as Diablo 3 like most online games can't be count worth in "hours" now

I guess the debate is not exactly on whether you should or have the right to own the game. But on why Diablo 3 market itself as offline game while it's not. And whether this will give the bad example for other offline game franchise to follow: turn all of their offline game to online
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Old 2012-05-21, 01:35   Link #1812
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Wait, am I the only one who got items with skill modifiers? Why does it sound like no one has them?

Another thing I would like to note, that stacking primary attribute is the worst thing you could do. Well, maybe not worst, but it's certainly not a good thing to do either. Equally distribute primary stats, +dmg and +atk speed actually results in higher dps overall, and I've found that I need pretty much 3 out of 4 attribute to do well in higher difficulty. Heck, even Barbarian needs some int to survive all those Fire Chain Teleporter elite out there.
Hmm? You don't need INT as a Barbarian (although it is not useless to you). STR gives you armour, which ALSO reduces magical damage (all types of damage in fact).

The way attributes work, you are not forced to stacked your non-primary stat, but neither will having it be a waste.

STR boosts Armour which reduces all forms of damage.
INT boosts Resistances, all types including physical.
DEX boosts Dodge, which includes magical attacks and AoE.

HOWEVER, you will NOT get the most DPS by just stacking your primary attribute. To do so, you will need a mixture of +DMG, Primary Stat and +%AtkSpd (if spamming non-cd skills).

Furthermore, as gear is pretty crappy until people start hitting the jackpot in End-Game, you will still need to pay attention to survival stats like VIT. Otherwise you will become a bite-size snack in Hell.

Me: "You have... 7k health. Dude, we're in Hell."
DH: "I have 6k DPS."

*DH dies to Log Trap* <---- 1-hit KO from full health

Cheers.
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Old 2012-05-21, 02:03   Link #1813
Squarecrow
Supreme Ruler of Crowatia
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Me: "You have... 7k health. Dude, we're in Hell."
DH: "I have 6k DPS."

*DH dies to Log Trap* <---- 1-hit KO from full health
Hahahaha.

I'm in Nightmare Act III, level 46 Wizard and I have 18k health. And 2.2k DPS.
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Old 2012-05-21, 02:32   Link #1814
Jazzrat
Bearly Legal
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post

I guess the debate is not exactly on whether you should or have the right to own the game. But on why Diablo 3 market itself as offline game while it's not. And whether this will give the bad example for other offline game franchise to follow: turn all of their offline game to online
They never did market it as an offline game or even a singleplayer game but a lot of us did play it as an offline singleplayer game due to variety of reason. I stop playing the online version due to rampant duping and hacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Hmm? You don't need INT as a Barbarian (although it is not useless to you). STR gives you armour, which ALSO reduces magical damage (all types of damage in fact).

The way attributes work, you are not forced to stacked your non-primary stat, but neither will having it be a waste.

STR boosts Armour which reduces all forms of damage.
INT boosts Resistances, all types including physical.
DEX boosts Dodge, which includes magical attacks and AoE.

HOWEVER, you will NOT get the most DPS by just stacking your primary attribute. To do so, you will need a mixture of +DMG, Primary Stat and +%AtkSpd (if spamming non-cd skills).

Furthermore, as gear is pretty crappy until people start hitting the jackpot in End-Game, you will still need to pay attention to survival stats like VIT. Otherwise you will become a bite-size snack in Hell.

Me: "You have... 7k health. Dude, we're in Hell."
DH: "I have 6k DPS."

*DH dies to Log Trap* <---- 1-hit KO from full health

Cheers.
i was in a party with a DH and Barb with my Monk and i had more HP than the two of em combined (sitting @ 15k hp 1.1k dps in NM Act 3 now). It's silly how they just repeatedly get killed everytime something sneeze at them while I was sitting in a big group duking it out with champion packs.

Even then, I need to reposition myself if there's too many arcane sentry/desecrate/molten/poison stacks.
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Old 2012-05-21, 03:30   Link #1815
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
They never did market it as an offline game or even a singleplayer game but a lot of us did play it as an offline singleplayer game due to variety of reason. I stop playing the online version due to rampant duping and hacking.
Well i guess because everyone expected offline is default gaming, so we all expect that it will be offline unless they clearly stated otherwise.

But we can all agree that Diablo 3 is an online game, right?
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Old 2012-05-21, 04:46   Link #1816
Waven
Itadaki-nyaaa !!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Gaming has already reached the state of mass consumption so naturally the industry makes several attempts to control the consumers some way or the other. Point is, even if enough people boycotted games with DRM for publishers to reconsider using it again, they'd find other means of control, other methods that seem more acceptable to customers at first. You have to look at how consumerism works to begin with, the general issue is not exclusive to the gaming industry.

Back to the fun stuff: Just finished nightmare with my DH. Died a lot less than I expected, smoke screen works like a charm, impale+bleed great single target damage with good mobility (compared to rapid fire). Good discipline management is a key aspect by now. Off to hell.
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Old 2012-05-21, 05:00   Link #1817
Duo Maxwell
A Proud Lolicon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In front of my computer
Age: 27
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Still can't figure out how to make good use of summoning for my WD. The dogs die way too fast, and the cooldown is too long for using Sacrifice. I found that the only one worth using is Gargantua. Fetish Army has 2 minutes cooldown, so it can't be used frequently, and with how everything is so chaotic in Nightmare/Hell, I can't find a good place to put down Fetish Shaman buffing.

Mostly I went with zombie wall and poison stuffs.
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Old 2012-05-21, 05:04   Link #1818
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Still farming Hell-Butcher at this point (for gold and XP). Not feeling comfortable enough to move on to Hell-A2. Starting to see more geared people now, which is a good thing as that means that the runs are smoother.

Witch Doctors seem be to be endangered at this point, and good ones are almost extinct. Monks seem to be the preferred "Tank" at the moment, while Barbarians seem to be more hampered by their higher gear dependence.

Wizards are basically LOL-everywhere, with DH not far behind.

Managed to snag a 321dps 2H-Staff from the Auction House with Life Steal and a socket for only 7k gold. Sweet... makes my base DPS 4.3k with 24k health. Still desperately looking for good rings that don't attempt to rob you blind.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-05-21, 05:38   Link #1819
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Still farming Hell-Butcher at this point (for gold and XP). Not feeling comfortable enough to move on to Hell-A2. Starting to see more geared people now, which is a good thing as that means that the runs are smoother.

Witch Doctors seem be to be endangered at this point, and good ones are almost extinct. Monks seem to be the preferred "Tank" at the moment, while Barbarians seem to be more hampered by their higher gear dependence.

Wizards are basically LOL-everywhere, with DH not far behind.

Managed to snag a 321dps 2H-Staff from the Auction House with Life Steal and a socket for only 7k gold. Sweet... makes my base DPS 4.3k with 24k health. Still desperately looking for good rings that don't attempt to rob you blind.

Cheers.
What do you mean by "LOL-everywhere"?
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Old 2012-05-21, 06:01   Link #1820
Ak3mi
Tumble Rumble
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Imagination Land
Age: 30
I'm farming Butcher inferno with templar, it is so hard I have only killed him twice now and nothing good has dropped All of the AH items with intellengent/vitality are so over priced for what they are, I can't see myself moving onto act 2 for a very long time :/
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