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Old 2012-05-21, 07:12   Link #8481
OverMaster
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Originally Posted by bonsobon View Post
I'm suprised this thread is still active considering the manga finished a while ago. I mean is there really anything more to talk about, apart from a sequel which may or may not happen?
Given how all we're talking now is about the sequel and how it ties into the ending we already had, and seeing how the thread was all but dead between that end and this announcement, any new lack of news will most likely bury the thread again.

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beside, Ken has an out, the onion did not physically penetrate, it was all magic that simulate the effects, (think Ako's needle) which explains the untorn pants, I guess just the image is too graphic for some?)
That's just a cheap cop-out so he could have anal rape imagery while claiming it wasn't actual anal rape imagery. It still was creepy, and it was actual mental rape. On a ten year old. Who sacrificed everything including his humanity for these girls and their sake, only to be paid with a betrayal and abuse for a hideously petty reason. These aren't the true comrades Ala Alba were supposed to be, and not even 3-A in general. Even the Kissing Game, where all the girls did were hitting each other with pillows, was nothing compared to that, and that was volumes of supposed character development ago.
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Old 2012-05-21, 07:20   Link #8482
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Whoa, slow down there. While I agree the sports arc was an out of character waste of space, I do think that claiming rape on what's been a running gag ever since Kotaro and Chizuru met is blowing things out of proportion.
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Old 2012-05-21, 10:27   Link #8483
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Originally Posted by bonsobon View Post
I'm suprised this thread is still active considering the manga finished a while ago. I mean is there really anything more to talk about, apart from a sequel which may or may not happen?
Well, people who feel that Akamatsu-sensei raped their "whatever" with the sports festival chapter and the rapid ending haven't gotten over that.

Maybe it is just because I'm an old fart, but while I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED with the ending of Negima!, I understand completely why the Sports Festival arc was done. Akamatsu-sensei had time to kill before his exclusive contract with Kodansha ended, but there wasn't time to do ANY of the plots any justice, especially since it STRONGLY APPEARS that there WILL BE A SEQUEL to the manga, he did a comedy story where he could allow ALL THE GIRLS to get some screen time. Then, he closed the books with a "Negi does find his father, and the girls grow up to be fine young women" moment, which isn't satisfying since so much was skipped, but it is closure. That ending will allow him to go back and do a sequel unhindered.
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Old 2012-05-21, 17:46   Link #8484
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Whoa, slow down there. While I agree the sports arc was an out of character waste of space, I do think that claiming rape on what's been a running gag ever since Kotaro and Chizuru met is blowing things out of proportion.
But it was mental rape, that is, forced violation of someone else's mental integrity. There are no ways around it, that's what it was.

And to be honest, the anal rape gag was bad ever since the first time it was brought up. It basically ruined Chizuru's character reducing her to an one note gag, too.

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Well, people who feel that Akamatsu-sensei raped their "whatever" with the sports festival chapter and the rapid ending haven't gotten over that.
... See the signature. (I picked it two days before your post was made, by the way).
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Old 2012-05-21, 18:13   Link #8485
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the ending for Negima was a business decision not a creative one. It was a place holder while Akamatsu run out the clock on his contract. Akamatsu wasn't going to start or end any plot points because he was saving those for a sequel. People need to realize manga is a business, it is not just about art.
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Old 2012-05-21, 20:38   Link #8486
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the ending for Negima was a business decision not a creative one. It was a place holder while Akamatsu run out the clock on his contract. Akamatsu wasn't going to start or end any plot points because he was saving those for a sequel. People need to realize manga is a business, it is not just about art.
We aren't actually sure about any of this. The only thing we have been given for sure is a tease there MIGHT be a new Negima work, most likely an Alternate Universe, so there's no way to say yet if that hypothetical new Negima would include the same plot points left hanging. Thus, saying he saved them for a sequel (which the supposed next Negima most likely won't be, at least not sequel from the original's ending point) is nothing but a wild guess yet.
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Old 2012-05-21, 22:09   Link #8487
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Having followed him this long, I'm used to ignoring Akamatsu's lowbrow humor ever since he tattooed the butt cheek of a minor in Love Hina so the Chizurugate never registered with me.

It only stands out because the whole story arc it appears in was olympically misplaced filler smack in the middle of Akamatsu's editorial activism getting in the way of everything else in the manga that actually mattered.
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Old 2012-05-22, 02:41   Link #8488
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Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
But it was mental rape, that is, forced violation of someone else's mental integrity. There are no ways around it, that's what it was.

And to be honest, the anal rape gag was bad ever since the first time it was brought up. It basically ruined Chizuru's character reducing her to an one note gag, too.
... Yet by that logic Negi's been violating his students ever since chapter one. It's a manga with fanservice comedy, sexual innuendo is something this manga has been joking with almost every chapter. Why is this gag so special?
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Old 2012-05-22, 08:45   Link #8489
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Whatever else I think about this situation (I've already posted my opinion of Ken and his writing skills/habits) .... a lot of people don't seem to be aware that shoving a large leek up the butt is a Japanese folk remedy for stomach ailments.

There's a reason Hatsune Miku uses one as a "wand" and its not just because has a green coloring - its a comedy item.
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Old 2012-05-22, 15:19   Link #8490
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Even when things are clearly being played for comedy, when a preteen character is tearing up from the stress of resisting the mind rape... I personally felt it crossed a line at that point.

On a related note, Negi kissing Luna into revealing herself also struck me as a very disturbing scene. Male character kisses female character without her consent and afterward she's sprawled on the ground with tears in her eyes.

Of course, I freely admit to being overly sensitive.
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Old 2012-05-22, 17:18   Link #8491
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Hey I have no plans to defend this massive train wreck ... just placing things in context. It just emanates a middle-finger to management on his way to other things with collateral damage to the fans.

On that note, anyone want to buy my partial set of Del Rey english translation Negima? I stopped buying them a few volumes ago.
(its a joke, just taking them to the book recycle dealer who is likely none the wiser)
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:56   Link #8492
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
... Yet by that logic Negi's been violating his students ever since chapter one. It's a manga with fanservice comedy, sexual innuendo is something this manga has been joking with almost every chapter. Why is this gag so special?
Hey, at least with some other lowbrow gags, like Yue's peeing, the characters have other facets to their personalities to make up for them. Chizuru is just the Breasts and Anal Abuse girl, which is a sad thing since they had other venues to explore with her (nurture of children, astronomy, friendship with Natsumi, which was shoved aside during Mundus Magicus).

Also, I don't follow your accusation of Negi. The sneeze is something out of his control; he read minds only twice, and never on girls (once, it looked like Takahata was humoring him, the other was against Fate, an enemy); and the only time he tried mindwiping someone, it failed abismally, and he never tried it again. So I don't understand why you'd compare him to Chizuru in terms of willing abuse.

Wasn't there supposed to be a list of ten answers Akamatsu was going to answer the 20th to a fanzine in a con? I guess nothing important ever came out of it, since no info on that has filtered the Internet anywhere.
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Old 2012-05-25, 18:09   Link #8493
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How many times did he kiss and disarm girls by ripping their clothes to shreds again? Neither of those are "out of his control."

Again, mountains out of molehills here. With a touch of hypocrisy too. Yes, you can read the onion thing as rape, but that same logic can be used to see Negi's kissing and ripping clothes to shreds as sexual assault as well.
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Old 2012-05-25, 20:43   Link #8494
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How many times did he kiss and disarm girls by ripping their clothes to shreds again? Neither of those are "out of his control."

Again, mountains out of molehills here. With a touch of hypocrisy too. Yes, you can read the onion thing as rape, but that same logic can be used to see Negi's kissing and ripping clothes to shreds as sexual assault as well.
Kissing Terminator Incident: Out of Negi's fault. Sneezes: Always accidental too. Disarming girls by stripping them: Takane (he didn't mean to and apologized heavily afterward), Chigusa (bitter enemy, and Asuna didn't go easy on her either), Sextum (had just come close to drowning several students), the Ariadne cadets (the only actual alternative were either retreating and losing Yue or actually hurting them. And they did attack first). He didn't even strip Tsukuyomi, who deserved worse than any other female in the series.

Pactio kisses: always either consensual or actually forced by the girls upon Negi. The only exception is Shiori's forced Pactio, which yes, was rather creepy, but at the very least against a then enemy and for a better (even if still arguable) reason than the girls' mere pettiness in the Sports Festival.
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Old 2012-05-26, 04:08   Link #8495
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Good grief! Could you miss the point any further? My point is that perverted jokes like that have always been part of Negima and should not be taken this seriously. This includes the onion thing, which I will remind you again is a well-known Japanese folk remedy that is often played for comedy. Using it in a story is about the same level as hitting people on the head to cure amnesia or scaring people to cure hiccups.
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Old 2012-05-26, 08:04   Link #8496
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Good grief! Could you miss the point any further? My point is that perverted jokes like that have always been part of Negima and should not be taken this seriously. This includes the onion thing, which I will remind you again is a well-known Japanese folk remedy that is often played for comedy. Using it in a story is about the same level as hitting people on the head to cure amnesia or scaring people to cure hiccups.
No, you are the one missing my point, although I suspect you're doing it on purpose. This wasn't just a typical onion joke, although that already was in bad taste on itself no matter how old those are (prison rape jokes are old as well, by the way). This was an instance of Akamatsu using that joke to add mental rape on top of it, to the point Negi was tearing up, and by that point, it had stopped being funny so badly it crossed all the way into disgusting territory. Right when most of those girls knew Negi had undergone serious stress protecting their lives. Right when they knew he had experienced the shock of discovering his father had been possessed, and right when he was doing important things to save a whole world. All for the sake of satisfying their curiosities without caring at all about the consequences. Simplify it all you want, it doesn't change the point it was horribly callous, selfish and abusive from 3-A, and it didn't do anything good for Chizuru's character especially since she was the 'executor' hand.

This wasn't done to cure hiccups or amnesia. This was mental intrusion and attempted control just to sate a selfish desire for childish 'revenge' and curiosity from girls who already should know better. Against someone who had literally done almost everything for them.

Good grief, indeed!

Edit: And for the use of the onion gag as something that stalled Chizuru's character even before this, I stand for it. Even if you don't mind the occasional gag on it, this was in the Flanderization level of Makie's 'Fail' joke in the anime, just within the series itself. When you think of Yue, you think of Badass Bookworm. Nodoka is Moe with a streak of badass, Ayaka has several layers for a character with relatively little panel time, Asuna and Chisame are more complex than most Tsunderes, and so on... while Chizuru is Onion-Up-Butt girl. Yeah.
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Old 2012-05-26, 10:09   Link #8497
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And, again, calling this occasion alone mental rape is hypocrisy. Your interpretation of claiming this to be mental rape while all those times that the girls get stripped (many of those times including tears in their eyes by the way) are not or excusing them is just hypocricy. It's a manga that has been joking with sexual harassment since the first chapter. This is really just more of the same. Both Negi and the girls have been harassed to the point of tears hundreds of times by now. It's half of what the entire series is build on.

And I don't disagree that Chizuru's character development is stalled or that this arc derailed the character of many characters. I agree on that, just scroll back a page and you can see that I'm quite of the opinion that this arc was a waste of pages. I'm just saying that calling this event rape, in any form, is just making a mountain of a molehill and really undeserving of all this flak when there are much, much worse things about the ending.

So, again, do I think the scene was a waste of space and character derailment? Yes. Do I think it warrants being called rape? No.
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Old 2012-05-27, 00:30   Link #8498
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I'm pretty sure the girls getting stripped is categorized as emotionally traumatizing, not mental rape, since mind-control elements were not out and about when their clothes were being destroyed.
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Old 2012-05-30, 12:06   Link #8499
OverMaster
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And, again, calling this occasion alone mental rape is hypocrisy. Your interpretation of claiming this to be mental rape while all those times that the girls get stripped (many of those times including tears in their eyes by the way) are not or excusing them is just hypocricy. It's a manga that has been joking with sexual harassment since the first chapter. This is really just more of the same. Both Negi and the girls have been harassed to the point of tears hundreds of times by now. It's half of what the entire series is build on.

And I don't disagree that Chizuru's character development is stalled or that this arc derailed the character of many characters. I agree on that, just scroll back a page and you can see that I'm quite of the opinion that this arc was a waste of pages. I'm just saying that calling this event rape, in any form, is just making a mountain of a molehill and really undeserving of all this flak when there are much, much worse things about the ending.

So, again, do I think the scene was a waste of space and character derailment? Yes. Do I think it warrants being called rape? No.
Why do you keep pretending I'm only talking about physical rape when I'm mostly meaning mental rape? You know the difference between both things, right? And Chizuru's actions were an attempt to take over a child's mind and force him to do something against his will. Despite the fact he was suffering over it, the fact they had no right to force that private information out of him, and the fact they were old enough to know better.

That's mindrape. You can make a good case for it not being physical rape with Akamatsu's copout of the artifact actually not going up Negi's rectum, but the imagery was still there. Being stripped is one thing, but the image, even if implied and not really true, of rectal impalement is another altogether. Although I agree there are far worse things about the ending.
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Old 2012-05-30, 15:36   Link #8500
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I'm not pretending I'm only seeing the physical rape, I'm saying that the same kind of sexual innuendo with potential for trauma if evaluated by real life standards has been happening along the entire manga. On both sides.

I can't change your interpretation of the event (or so the past page has taught me). But I do think (and this was really my main point from the start before we strayed off) that this is taking the criticism to the ending too far. Yeah the ending sucks, but this event needs not be drawn into the realm of over-analysis (and I am just as guilty as you are, given my past few posts on this) to somehow make the ending worse. It was a joke, just like all the other times. It was made for laughs and funs. A waste of pages, but little more than that.
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