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Old 2012-05-21, 00:14   Link #861
zeniselv
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awesome episode, it felt greatly directed in every way, and the build up for the tension was magnificent, i like how thinks are getting better with every episode.
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Old 2012-05-21, 00:27   Link #862
mangamuscle
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Wow, this chapter was heavy and unless Yuuko gets a "naruto moment" I have no idea how Teichi can deal with this situation, those are very heavy emotions and if this continues Yuuko's shadow can only get stronger.
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Old 2012-05-21, 05:00   Link #863
DXMichael
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Woah, that was quite the heavy ending to episode 7. This episode just built all the tension up and let it explode at the end.
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Old 2012-05-21, 06:03   Link #864
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A very nice episode indeed.

I noticed at around 9:18 in the video, when Teiichi was talking to Kirie in the hallway, there was an image of Yuuko at the top right portion of the screen that slowly fades away. I wonder if that was really Yuuko or shadow Yuuko?

I guess this was the only way for Yuuko to remain somewhat sane all these years. She must push all that she does not want into another entity. Now, the question is, will they try to destroy that entity, or will Yuuko completely take it back?

Yuuko pushing Teiichi, was that an act of retribution for a similar act that happened to her?

Anyway, this was a really tense episode, and it expanded quite a bit. It was really enjoyable.
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Old 2012-05-21, 08:01   Link #865
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Damn interesting episode with "WTF moment"
I thought Teiichi died & then became a ghost until the ED.
That was really intense.
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Old 2012-05-21, 08:01   Link #866
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
A very nice episode indeed.

I noticed at around 9:18 in the video, when Teiichi was talking to Kirie in the hallway, there was an image of Yuuko at the top right portion of the screen that slowly fades away. I wonder if that was really Yuuko or shadow Yuuko?

I guess this was the only way for Yuuko to remain somewhat sane all these years. She must push all that she does not want into another entity. Now, the question is, will they try to destroy that entity, or will Yuuko completely take it back?

Yuuko pushing Teiichi, was that an act of retribution for a similar act that happened to her?

Anyway, this was a really tense episode, and it expanded quite a bit. It was really enjoyable.
Yuuko pushing Teiichi wasn't an act of retribution for what happened to her, it was a Yandere moment...or was it?
As Shadow Yuuko said she pushed all her negative emotions onto her shadow leaving only the kind, happy beautiful Yuuko. However that Yuuko fell in love and with love comes incredibly strong emotions, both positive and negative. Shadow Yuuko mentioned Jealousy, but's not the only thing...every negative emotion people have started to surface.

When Yuuko looked into Teiichi's eyes she saw how he saw her as, or at least saw what she thought he saw her as. Teiichi either started seeing Yuuko as Shadow Yuuko and it was reflected in his eyes or Yuuko was seeing herself in his eyes, her doubt made her see herself as Shadow Yuuko but instead of thinking as such she believed that it was what Teiichi saw.

A girl who's first love in a long long time, the only person she can talk and touch (Kirie doesn't matter to her) suddenly starts seeing her as some horrible ghost, of course she would flip out and it just so happens that it was in a vengeful spirit fashion.

Or was that really it? She could also have another reason for pushing him. What if she saw what he sees her as (or thought it was what he sees her as) yet saw him still forcing himself to act like nothing happened? What if she was starting to fear that she would become Shadow Yuuko or that Shadow Yuuko would go after Teiichi?
Cue the big plan to gain distance. Push him down the stairs (never said it was a brilliant plan...), make him start to hate her and keep his distance from her. She can then either forget about him or pretend to have forgotten if he ever tried to go find her further severing their connection...so he can leave a normal and safe life away from her...and she can stay away from negative emotions and remain Light Yuuko longer.

Which is it? Guess we'll see in an episode or two
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Old 2012-05-21, 10:40   Link #867
Kanon
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The end of the episode made my jaw drop. Wow.

Yuuko is into some serious denial. Her death must have been truly horrifying for her to want to forget everything about her former life. Shadow Yuuko is the living (not really...) proof of that. Teiichi's theory that she was sacrificed was probably partially correct.
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Old 2012-05-21, 10:41   Link #868
Somnus
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Aww, the memory thing always hits like a rock. I was having such a good time from the get-go too! (Yuuko's song in the beginning was hilarious) It's a necessary evil, I suppose, and the way the events were laid out gradually leading into it was brilliant. Can't wait to see more.

In reply to "what did Yuuko see in his eyes?" I believe that's what she perceived herself as, and Teichi saw her how he always had.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:00   Link #869
Cosmic Eagle
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This is why I love Tasogare Otome so much...

Shit, seeing Yuuko go through that again kinda hurts...
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:02   Link #870
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Okonogi sure is a naive and silly girl LOL
Niiya & Yuuko's little prank on her was kinda mean.
She sure is clingy recently.
Niiya can't get a break from her at all in school.
Looks like Yuuko also doesn't like other girls around him either.
So she does have two sides, the normal one and the other filled with negative emotions.
Yuuko should just accept and merge with her bad side.
At least now she has someone and is not alone anymore.
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:06   Link #871
Kaoru Chujo
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Director Oonuma Shin's best show since ef-memories and ef-melodies. I can't add much to the general praise for ep7.

I will say that, based on the glimpse we got before, yes this was a bit of a replay of Yuuko being pushed downstairs -- except she ended up alone in a basement dying, rather than taken to the hospital (by someone) and patched up. "Revenge"? Not exactly, but the feeling was probably there. To me, it was more like a preemptive self-protective yandere rejection of someone whom she could tell was beginning to mistrust her. I could see it in his manner towards her, if not literally in his eyes.

Really, the way they played it, I almost felt more sorry for dark Yuuko than for bright Yuuko. She wasn't just an evil cipher, but had some humanity to her, too. Great work all through by Hara Yumi, playing both of them.

I immediately thought of myself, or of each one of us. Who among us has not let events we felt badly about sink deep into our minds, so we don't have to think about them all the time? This is just the same thing done in a more complete way.

It's interesting that both Hyouka and Tasogare are featuring characters used as "sacrifices" (probably in this case, definitely in Hyouka) to protect the larger group.

Now I really want to see them fall in love again.

EDIT @Haak -- I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say the transitions were weird. I can think of the abruptness of the transition from basketball to class, and Yuuko's breathing. If there is some suddenness in some transitions, it does help throw us off balance, so the dark events have more impact, perhaps. In any case, the episde was written by the lead writer, Takayama Katsuhiko, who has written most of them. It was storyboarded by Kugimiya Hiroshi, a veteran animator (Hare + Guu, Japan Our Homeland) who has in recent years been more doing storyboards (YumePati2, Sunred). This is his first episode in the series. The episode director was Jinbo Masato, who also did ep5. He may be fairly young, since his earliest work I can find is from 2005. He has done eps of shows such as Simoun, Oh Edo Rocket, Marimite 4, Railgun, Five Leaves, etc.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2012-05-21 at 12:31.
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:08   Link #872
Haak
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The scene transitioning in this episode was weird. Especially when Yuuko and Niyaa just ran away from Shadow Yuuko and ditched poor Kanoe. If I was Kanoe, I'd be totally pissed...
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:51   Link #873
ars89
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Wow didn't expect it to turn out like that.
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Old 2012-05-21, 13:27   Link #874
Rayrah
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What a great episode that was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
I noticed at around 9:18 in the video, when Teiichi was talking to Kirie in the hallway, there was an image of Yuuko at the top right portion of the screen that slowly fades away. I wonder if that was really Yuuko or shadow Yuuko?

I guess this was the only way for Yuuko to remain somewhat sane all these years. She must push all that she does not want into another entity. Now, the question is, will they try to destroy that entity, or will Yuuko completely take it back?
It looked like Yuuko to me, but I don't think that Yuuko was actually standing there; I just assumed that image of her served some symbolic purpose.. I don't know; maybe something along the lines of her becoming so enigmatic while discussing Shadow Yuuko with Kirie that Teiichi felt as if the image of Yuuko he had built up began fading away? *shrug*

I hope that they'll try to get Yuuko to take back all those negative emotions. If what we learned about her in this episode was true, then Shadow Yuuko is Yuuko as much as the 'normal' Yuuko is. Destroying/exorcising Shadow Yuuko would be the same as destroying half of Yuuko's very (ghostly) being. However, I imagine that taking back all those negative emotions is no easy task; I wouldn't be surprised if her itd cause to go insane, but fortunately, she has Teiichi, who is willing to talk to her (and forgive her, I assume) after she pushed him down a flight of stairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Really, the way they played it, I almost felt more sorry for dark Yuuko than for bright Yuuko. She wasn't just an evil cipher, but had some humanity to her, too. Great work all through by Hara Yumi, playing both of them.
I concur; for something that initially came across as a malicious entity, Shadow Yuuko didn't seem very evil. I guess she's as evil as the negative feelings she embodies, which isn't very evil.

Quote:
I immediately thought of myself, or of each one of us. Who among us has not let events we felt badly about sink deep into our minds, so we don't have to think about them all the time? This is just the same thing done in a more complete way.
That.. is a very good point. I suppose it ends a touch of realism to Yuuko’s character.

Quote:
Now I really want to see them fall in love again.
Oh, hell yes. Teiichi and Yuuko make such a great couple ~

Last edited by Rayrah; 2012-05-21 at 15:29. Reason: durp.
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Old 2012-05-21, 15:27   Link #875
Random Wanderer
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The reason Yuuko pushed him was never clearly explained. In the manga the timing was slightly different, adding confusion because there could have been another possible motive. Here... well, there are many possibilities, and I think several of them all factor in. Human emotions aren't really these neat little things that can be explained with a single reason. There were many influences on Yuuko, pushing her beyond what she knew how to handle.

The reflection in Teiichi's eyes... she believed, at least some of the time, that he was looking at her in fear, and she saw her ugly, shadow self in his eyes. The idea of him believing her to be like that, or the idea that she might actually be like that (or both), terrified her.

Then there are her own memories. She does not know what they are, but even the thought of taking them back is more than she can bear. She doesn't even know why; she has forgotten the reasons just like she's forgotten everything else; but the idea of taking back the memories she pushed away frightens her more than anything.

And she has fallen in love. She doesn't want to forget that, but the darker emotions that come with it are another matter. The unhappiness, the pain, the jealousy that come as inevitable counterparts to the happiness of love, she does not want them. She fears them.

I think no one thing was truly enough to make her force things to the point where she would make herself forget all that's happened with Teiichi, but the combined weight of these (and probably several other) stresses and fears have built up within her, to the point that she finally broke down, and forced herself to have an unambiguously bad memory: something she would definitely want to forget. And for forgetting that memory to make sense, she would have to forget all that had come before as well: all the time she had spent with Teiichi and the others, everything that had placed all these stresses on her. By committing one act that she could not bear to remember, she rid herself of all the things that had plagued her, and became again the uncaring ghost who could view life again from a distance.

Quote:
I concur; for something that initially came across as a malicious entity, Shadow Yuuko didn't seem very evil. I guess she's as evil as the negative feelings she embodies, which isn't very evil.
Well, for all that she holds Yuuko's fear and pain and hate, she has never really directed those emotions at anyone. Perhaps if she were to actually face someone she blamed for what happened to her things would be different, but as of now she's just creepy rather than evil.

EDIT: I almost forgot. One thing really struck me about this episode; one thing that really felt powerful to me, even despite all I've said about previous episodes not living up to how they should be compared to the manga. When the ED started this time, the first half or so of it played out just like normal, except for one difference: Yuuko wasn't there. In those scenes where she's normally sitting in the window, singing, she was not there. That simple thing, Yuuko not being where she should be in the ED, hit me harder than anything that happened in the episode itself. I don't know how to describe what I felt at the moment I realized she was missing, but it was... it was just not right.

Last edited by Random Wanderer; 2012-05-21 at 16:05.
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Old 2012-05-21, 17:37   Link #876
Kaoru Chujo
Yuuki Aoi
 
 
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The scene transitioning in this episode was weird. Especially when Yuuko and Niyaa just ran away from Shadow Yuuko and ditched poor Kanoe. If I was Kanoe, I'd be totally pissed...
In that case, Yuuko had exploded emotionally and had to flee from her shadow self. Niyaa couldn't think about Kanoe since he needed to go after Yuuko (who was his #1, for sure, whether she realized it or not). Hard luck for Kanoe, but inescapable. I certainly worried what shadow Yuuko might do to her, or she might do out of fear -- but she had dealt directly with shadow Yuuko before, so I wasn't too worried.

I don't know where they are going to take the story now, but this "shadow" business is great. Reminds me of the psychologist Carl Jung, who said we all have a shadow side that we pretend doesn't exist. He said that we had to actually look at and accept our shadow side -- our violent instincts, our fears and hatreds -- or else it will sneak up on us and govern our actions without our realizing it. I think I see that often, especially in political life and world affairs, where people locate all evil in their opponents, and feel free to treat them abominably. I'm hoping Yuuko will be able to reintegrate her shadow into herself -- except that that will mean she is able to come to terms with the feelings that are keeping her in this world, and she may finally be able to really die. And Niiya will lose her.

I certainly agree with Random Wanderer that Yuuko's motivation was complex. Just like real life, lol.
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Old 2012-05-21, 19:19   Link #877
thundrakkon
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Which is it? Guess we'll see in an episode or two
Arrrgghhh Randrak42! You've really made my head spin and feel conflicted.

So that's how manga readers can play around with anime only viewers.

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Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
It looked like Yuuko to me, but I don't think that Yuuko was actually standing there; I just assumed that image of her served some symbolic purpose.. I don't know; maybe something along the lines of her becoming so enigmatic while discussing Shadow Yuuko with Kirie that Teiichi felt as if the image of Yuuko he had built up began fading away? *shrug*
The scene just felt weird, since it expanded the area and showed Yuuko in a distance. In some respects, I can see what you mean. However, it also felt like because of Kirie and Teiichi discussion, Yuuko felt distant. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. However, symbolically, I do wonder which was the more accurate interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
I hope that they'll try to get Yuuko to take back all those negative emotions. If what we learned about her in this episode was true, then Shadow Yuuko is Yuuko as much as the 'normal' Yuuko is. Destroying/exorcising Shadow Yuuko would be the same as destroying half of Yuuko's very (ghostly) being. However, I imagine that taking back all those negative emotions is no easy task; I wouldn't be surprised if her itd cause to go insane, but fortunately, she has Teiichi, who is willing to talk to her (and forgive her, I assume) after she pushed him down a flight of stairs.
I concur that taking back all of her true self is the usual way to handle this and is idealistic. However, if we take into account that Yuuko is a spirit, then taking all those negative emotion could be counter productive. She could very well end up as a vengeful spirit herself and never pass on. If there is a way for her to remember things, more as a 3rd person story, then she could distance herself from those emotions and avoid becoming vengeful.
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Old 2012-05-21, 19:48   Link #878
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Arrrgghhh Randrak42! You've really made my head spin and feel conflicted.

So that's how manga readers can play around with anime only viewers.
The best way to troll an anime only viewer is to present theories and options that make sense in the scenario along with the real one but point to neither as the truth, only saying that you'll find out in time. Much more entertaining than simply spoiling people...and it doesn't have the nasty side effect of getting banned.

Mind you, the scene is MUCH different in the manga. In the manga he wasn't sitting alone with Yuuko on the roof, he was actually in the old school building talking to Kirie when Yuuko came out of nowhere and pushed him. In the manga Yuuko also showed a ton more regret in her eyes after pushing him than she did in the anime.
Let's not count the fact that the whole Akahito debacle came right AFTER all of this was resolved. Then again considering the anime length the changes are pretty understandable.
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Old 2012-05-21, 19:57   Link #879
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...y'know, it's a good thing that Yuuko is bound to the school...Niiya Teiichi would be the world's greatest con-artist if he had Yuuko running around, causing mischief and he got 'paid' to take care of it...

I don't know if even Araragi Koyomi could have done anything much about it - he doesn't have to deal with ghosts that we've seen...XD
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Old 2012-05-21, 22:56   Link #880
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...y'know, it's a good thing that Yuuko is bound to the school...Niiya Teiichi would be the world's greatest con-artist if he had Yuuko running around, causing mischief and he got 'paid' to take care of it...

I don't know if even Araragi Koyomi could have done anything much about it - he doesn't have to deal with ghosts that we've seen...XD
Don't tempt him; he makes a harem out of anyone he encounters, even his sisters, and he DOES deal with one snail of a ghost!
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