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Old 2012-05-20, 09:55   Link #221
Soji
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Azure-Priest@ It's possible. With all he go through and he survive in the Hades realm i can see him become a future enemy.

1upspud@ She was taking by the devil after Ise defeat her.So maybe we will see her in the future .
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Old 2012-05-20, 10:55   Link #222
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Originally Posted by Azure-Priest View Post
No, Indra/ Sakra is simply a bastard who wants to "train" Cao Cao that way for his own pleasure.

Indra couldn't care less what happens to Cao Cao, George, or even Leonardo.

It wouldn't surprise me if Leonardo became the "final boss" of this manga.

Look at what's happened to him.

Kidnapped,mind controlled, and having his sacred gear forcefully exploited by Cao Cao and the "hero" faction.

The one person who has shown even a little concern for his well being is dead. (I'm sure Cao Cao or George will at one point say the Gremory clan killed him, but won't elaborate why or tell him that Sigfreed is the one who attacked the Gremory first.)

He was kidnapped from the "hero" faction and traumatically forced into BB mode summoning the Bandersnatch and Jaberwock monsters by a devil, Shalba.

Now he's being forced to endure the "Realm of the Dead" by Indra.

Little by little, his life is just more and more trauma and betrayal. I foresee him getting quite bitter and angry and just plain wanting revenge on the world, and using "annihilation maker" and the new "real" Ophis to do so probably starting with his "allies" in Kaos Brigade and working outward from there.
that a true but he needs Annihilation maker first and i cant see shemhaza leaving it in Sakra/Indra's hands for too long remember hes got slash dog and Barakiel two strong soliders. And Sirzechs and Michael wont be too inclined to leave it in Sakra's/Indra's hands either at that. They'd be stupid leaders if they let that happen and they've been competent till now...

best thing that could happen to Leo in my opinion he joins angel's or Devils with a good strong King, Sairaorg esq
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Old 2012-05-20, 17:54   Link #223
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Leonardo is stil a kid right I think it would be better if went with the oppai Dragon Issei. I think he can learn from Issei "what a true hero is ".
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Old 2012-05-20, 19:44   Link #224
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I was expecting Ise to save leonardo during the fight, honestly...
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Old 2012-05-20, 20:14   Link #225
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Leonardo is stil a kid right I think it would be better if went with the oppai Dragon Issei. I think he can learn from Issei "what a true hero is ".
I agree in principle but harem and all. but there also an issue would issei be a bit soft as in has a backbone but won't be inclined to use it on a child?

I can't wait for Volume 13 ending chapter what fun and Chekhovs guns will it hold!
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Old 2012-05-20, 20:25   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Azure-Priest View Post
No, Indra/ Sakra is simply a bastard who wants to "train" Cao Cao that way for his own pleasure.

Indra couldn't care less what happens to Cao Cao, George, or even Leonardo.

It wouldn't surprise me if Leonardo became the "final boss" of this manga.

Look at what's happened to him.

Kidnapped,mind controlled, and having his sacred gear forcefully exploited by Cao Cao and the "hero" faction.

The one person who has shown even a little concern for his well being is dead. (I'm sure Cao Cao or George will at one point say the Gremory clan killed him, but won't elaborate why or tell him that Sigfreed is the one who attacked the Gremory first.)

He was kidnapped from the "hero" faction and traumatically forced into BB mode summoning the Bandersnatch and Jaberwock monsters by a devil, Shalba.

Now he's being forced to endure the "Realm of the Dead" by Indra.

Little by little, his life is just more and more trauma and betrayal. I foresee him getting quite bitter and angry and just plain wanting revenge on the world, and using "annihilation maker" and the new "real" Ophis to do so probably starting with his "allies" in Kaos Brigade and working outward from there.
Wait, what? There's nothing to indicate that the Hero Faction has been mindcontrolling Leonardo and that Leonardo haven't been willing to follow the Hero Faction. There's also nothing to indicate that Siegfried cares for him beyond comarde level.

It wasn't until Hadas came along and forcafully stole Leonardo away and used him for his sacred gear that he got mindcontrolled. Siegfried makes it clear that it wasn't the Hero Factions plan.

Also Leonardo is seriously under developed to be some sort of final boss. None of the villains in High School DxD are well developed but if your looking for a final villain then Cao Cao is the most likely.
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Old 2012-05-20, 20:40   Link #227
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Except that I don't think leo will survive the underworld without his SG. I'm more worried about where Jean went.
Jeanne and Heracles were captured by the devil faction.
Which is actually one of the most humane.

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Also Leonardo is seriously under developed to be some sort of final boss. None of the villains in High School DxD are well developed but if your looking for a final villain then Cao Cao is the most likely.
Leonardo sure lacks characterization. Compared to Heracles and Jeanne, who at least have personalities, I'm not sure if Leonardo actually got any speaking lines. On the other hand, as the "final boss" of the 3rd story arc, Hades gets shafted too. All he got was a cameo in Volume 10 at the Rating Game and then his castle getting stormed in Volume 12.

It seems like the author just wants to wipe the slate clean of the Hero faction and focus on new villains.
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Old 2012-05-20, 20:50   Link #228
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Leonardo sure lacks characterization. Compared to Heracles and Jeanne, who at least have personalities, I'm not sure if Leonardo actually got any speaking lines. On the other hand, as the "final boss" of the 3rd story arc, Hades gets shafted too. All he got was a cameo in Volume 10 at the Rating Game and then his castle getting stormed in Volume 12.

It seems like the author just wants to wipe the slate clean of the Hero faction and focus on new villains.
Given how Indra sent Cao Cao and co away it's likely that they will be back.

Hadas wasn't really a true final boss especailly for the main characters. Cao Cao was more of the final boss of the third arc and it shows because he got the most focus out of any of the villains.
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Old 2012-05-20, 20:52   Link #229
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Something I think should be clarified here. Ddraig and Albion have a base level equal or greater than god. However, that doesn't mean that's their limit. Ddraig can still multiply his power, and Albion can still divide others. That's their intrinsic ability.

Saying Ddraig can't go above his base level with boost is like saying Sirzechs can't use POD in his Magia Ereba form (screw it, I'm calling it Super Satan from now on. I don't care what DBZ thinks.)
I don't think that's how it works... If Ddraig could multiply his own power, what's to stop him from doubling a few times and then taking out Great Red or Ophis to claim the title of the strongest, if he was such a battle freak back then? After all, if full powered Ophis' power is just a few multiples of the Heavenly Dragons, what's to prevent Ophis from being defeated by either Boost or Divide?

Personally, I would prefer if the power multiplication and division abilities are the result of the Sacred Gears, but harnessing and powered by the original dragons' power in some way.
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:16   Link #230
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I don't think that's how it works... If Ddraig could multiply his own power, what's to stop him from doubling a few times and then taking out Great Red or Ophis to claim the title of the strongest, if he was such a battle freak back then? After all, if full powered Ophis' power is just a few multiples of the Heavenly Dragons, what's to prevent Ophis from being defeated by either Boost or Divide?

Personally, I would prefer if the power multiplication and division abilities are the result of the Sacred Gears, but harnessing and powered by the original dragons' power in some way.
....I hate arguing with you, you're one of the bosses as far as DxD is concerned, but when Ise and Vali met for one of the first times, Ddraig and Albion had a discussion, and Albion said : "You multiply, and I divide." Implying that was their power, and the SG was using their ability.

As for Ophus and GR, I actually have a theory about that. I don't think they actually have limits in the same sense as the others, and Samael somehow damaged Ophus' power while stealing it. Azazel says that because of what she went through, she was now "finite" implying that only now did she exist on the same plane (league, scale, dimension) as the others.

Though none of this is confirmed or denied as far as I know, so I'm really just letting out hot air.
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Old 2012-05-20, 22:23   Link #231
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I don't know, I interpreted that conversation between Ddraig and Albion as about how their possessors fought... i.e. the past Red and White Dragon Emperors rather than the original dragons.

Since the powers of the Sacred Gears cancelled out, the victor was determined by who was more skilled.
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Old 2012-05-21, 02:45   Link #232
sky black swordman
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
Given how Indra sent Cao Cao and co away it's likely that they will be back.

Hadas wasn't really a true final boss especailly for the main characters. Cao Cao was more of the final boss of the third arc and it shows because he got the most focus out of any of the villains.
Yeah I think so as well. I can all see Cao Cao maybe getting some pay back on Indra for taking his weapon and xcoming back to pay Issei for his defeat.

And on Hades yeah I agree with .

I think Indra next action will observing both Issei and Vail to gauge there future threat potential. Beginning to prepare countermeasures for them.

In vol 9 sun wukong says Issei is in danger maybe hitting that Indra has his eye on him and vol 10 in a way threatens Issei.

I would not be surprise if he knew out before he became a devil.
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Old 2012-05-21, 03:12   Link #233
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Yeah I think so as well. I can all see Cao Cao maybe getting some pay back on Indra for taking his weapon and xcoming back to pay Issei for his defeat.

And on Hades yeah I agree with .

I think Indra next action will observing both Issei and Vail to gauge there future threat potential. Beginning to prepare countermeasures for them.

In vol 9 sun wukong says Issei is in danger maybe hitting that Indra has his eye on him and vol 10 in a way threatens Issei.

I would not be surprise if he knew out before he became a devil.
But when Ise was human he don't have enough power to even hear Ddraig.
Though i will not suprise if Indra really keep an eye on both Ise and Vali. Still i find strange that Indra seem to fear more Ise than Vali that show use that he is more strong than Ise(and ..I mean a big time stronger than Ise).Or at least i don't remember Indra say nothing about vali like he say about Ise.And like someone already say i doubt Indra know that Ise get help from the oppai god again loki. Also if we think about it better ...ise gain the help from 3 god (4 if we count the hamer replica ). Odin or better the hamer(replica) + Oppai god and in vol 12 from the 2 dragon god(that they are god from what we know now) from the whole body. ANd GR help him again the whole big monster. ......ok i can see why Indra say that
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Old 2012-05-21, 08:45   Link #234
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i think ise will get either one high class or pure blood dracula to become his future servant(of course girl.) and some powerfull magician maybe desendant of merlin.
on next arc.

ah i can't wait for nom@n translating vol 12.
i hope he will translate it fast!
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Old 2012-05-21, 10:48   Link #235
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Wait, what? There's nothing to indicate that the Hero Faction has been mindcontrolling Leonardo and that Leonardo haven't been willing to follow the Hero Faction. There's also nothing to indicate that Siegfried cares for him beyond comarde level.

It wasn't until Hadas came along and forcafully stole Leonardo away and used him for his sacred gear that he got mindcontrolled. Siegfried makes it clear that it wasn't the Hero Factions plan.

Also Leonardo is seriously under developed to be some sort of final boss. None of the villains in High School DxD are well developed but if your looking for a final villain then Cao Cao is the most likely.
Every time Leonardo has appeared, he has been acting like a robot, even more than Koneko (pre Ise). He has not even spoken a single line. If that's not an indication of either mind control or sheer terror, I don't know what is, and Cao Cao DOES use mind control. Just look at the case of Kuno's mother.

Further, it was Shalba, a devil who kidnapped Cao Cao from the "hero" faction and overloaded his gear. (Giving Leonardo legitimate reason to hate and fear devils.)

Sigfried may only care for Leonardo "as a comrade" but that is far more than anyone else has been shown doing, and now he's dead at the Gremory's hands. (More devils) Leonardo did not know that when Shalba used him, but he's sure to find out eventually.

As for the last point, he's underdeveloped NOW, but that doesn't mean that should he survive the "realm of the dead," he won't become REALLY NASTY.

It would be nice if Ise gets the chance to show Leonardo that his experiences with Devils are the exception not the rule, just like Ise's experiences with Fallen angels were the exception. Somehow though, I doubt he'll get the chance, especially if Cao Cao and Indra have their way.
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Old 2012-05-21, 19:54   Link #236
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^ You have an intreating point. Or he could have been trick to beliving that what Cao Cao is doing is right.

That did not happen to Cao Cao it happend to Leonardo and at the time he was under Shalba mind control we ar not even sure he remmembers that. he may or may not remmember what happend to him.

That maybe true. But Sigfried choose to fight out pride and not look bad in front of the other members of the group.

Yes he is .

yes it would be nice but Leonardo was set with Cao Cao to the "realm of the dead" .
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Old 2012-05-21, 21:37   Link #237
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Originally Posted by Azure-Priest View Post
Every time Leonardo has appeared, he has been acting like a robot, even more than Koneko (pre Ise). He has not even spoken a single line. If that's not an indication of either mind control or sheer terror, I don't know what is, and Cao Cao DOES use mind control. Just look at the case of Kuno's mother.
Yeah, no. For one, the narration is from Issei's POV and Issei wasn't really paying attention to Leonardo when he confronted the Hero Faction. Thus we don't really have a detailed description of Leonardo besides the fact that he is stoic. He was never compared to Koneko. Not speaking a single line could mean that he has nothing to talk about.

Mind control is possible but their's nothing to indicate it. No one mentions he's being mind controlled. So until the novels confirm it, it's still speculation. I have no problem with speculation but stop trying to make your speculation sound like it's a fact.

Quote:
Further, it was Shalba, a devil who kidnapped Cao Cao from the "hero" faction and overloaded his gear. (Giving Leonardo legitimate reason to hate and fear devils.)
It was Shalba who carried out the deed but it was Hadas who was the "man behind the man". He ordered it to happen as Siegfried makes quiet clear in volume 11.

Quote:
Sigfried may only care for Leonardo "as a comrade" but that is far more than anyone else has been shown doing, and now he's dead at the Gremory's hands. (More devils) Leonardo did not know that when Shalba used him, but he's sure to find out eventually.
Again, nothing proves that considering that the two barely had any interaction besides Siegfried saving Leonardo. And Siegfried's actions can easily be intreperated as him saving Leonardo because he has a very powerful and useful sacred gear.

Quote:
As for the last point, he's underdeveloped NOW, but that doesn't mean that should he survive the "realm of the dead," he won't become REALLY NASTY.
And have some deus ex machina development? Look, I know that DxD doesn't have any engaging villains but having some deus ex machina villain development without any forshadowing would just look bad. I'd rather have Cao Cao as main villain if that is the case.

Quote:
It would be nice if Ise gets the chance to show Leonardo that his experiences with Devils are the exception not the rule, just like Ise's experiences with Fallen angels were the exception. Somehow though, I doubt he'll get the chance, especially if Cao Cao and Indra have their way.
There's no basis behind the whole Leonardo and Issei interaction besides the fact that Leonardo is a kid and Issei likes kids. Plus it really, really lacks forshadowing.
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Old 2012-05-22, 11:17   Link #238
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
It was Shalba who carried out the deed but it was Hadas who was the "man behind the man". He ordered it to happen as Siegfried makes quiet clear in volume 11.
Not quite, Shalba was acting on his own when he kidnapped Leonardo. Shalba is at the edge of going crazy, so in this case its not Hades
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Old 2012-05-22, 18:12   Link #239
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Not quite, Shalba was acting on his own when he kidnapped Leonardo. Shalba is at the edge of going crazy, so in this case its not Hades
He's backed up by Hades to destroy devil and fallen angel
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Old 2012-05-22, 18:25   Link #240
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Not quite, Shalba was acting on his own when he kidnapped Leonardo. Shalba is at the edge of going crazy, so in this case its not Hades
Here's the passage:

Quote:
“……We can’t help it. Looks like it’s time for us to leave. Let’s retreat once after retrieving Leonardo. Pluto, how about…….”

Siegfried stopped there and realised the disappearance of the Grim Reaper. That Grim Reaper disappeared all of a sudden! Seeing that, it seems like Siegfried understood something.

“……I see. So the one who was helping Shalba from the shadows was…… It’s something that skull-god would think of. So he won’t choose any sorts of methods to annoy us. Did he also tell the method to forcefully use the Balance-Breaker of [Annihilation Maker]……? We don’t know what kind of price and bad effect it has to do a temporally Balance-Breaker like that. We were trying to increase the power of Leonardo slowly….. Now this boy is…..”
Guess who the skull-god is. Three guesses. The first two don't count.
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