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Old 2012-05-25, 10:00   Link #221
Renall
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I may have forgotten an init somewhere. I think it's an alpha layer designed to provide partial transparency that Oliver probably defined for me elsewhere and I just forgot to cut and paste because it wasn't in the block defining the rain pattern. It definitely works, I just might have forgotten to put the whole thing in. I'll take a look later.

EDIT: Oops, yeah, here's what you need to do. The part I pasted before goes in init:. The part I'm pasting now goes in init python:.

Code:
    # RainAlpha is the total alpha level of the entire rain sheet.
    RainAlpha = 0.7
        
    # RainY is rain speed, basically how long does it take
    # for the rain sheet to fall down.
    RainY = 1
    # RainX is the same for horizontal movement,
    # and needs to be manually adjusted to fit the screen width.
    RainX = RainY*6
        
    # Derived values which this mess of a code uses.
    RainLayerAlpha = RainAlpha/3
    RainYM = RainY*2
    RainXM = RainX*2
    RainYF = RainYM*2
    RainXF = RainXM*2
Don't touch his derived values, I have no idea what they do and if he says they're dangerous he knows RenPy way better than me. However, you can probably mess with RainY and RainX if you want faster or slower-falling rain, although you should probably create entirely new inits for that (like RainYslow, RainYheavy, whatever) and make a new rainfall block using those different values, rather than messing around with the default.

Also his RainX define is set for my 852 screen width. If it looks wrong, change the multiplier of RainX from RainY*6 to RainY*n, where n is a larger or smaller number until it looks right. Changing RainY will by necessity change how RainX is derived as well. You could make RainX a static number, of course, but again that's levels of experimentation I have not ventured into.
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This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2012-05-25, 10:17   Link #222
Jan-Poo
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I thought Ren'py was easier to use than onscripter, but I'm beginning to wonder if that only applies for the basic stuff and not the more advanced.
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Old 2012-05-25, 10:32   Link #223
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I thought Ren'py was easier to use than onscripter, but I'm beginning to wonder if that only applies for the basic stuff and not the more advanced.
The basic engine is very easy, and you can easily define and utilize backgrounds and portraits and call up text without touching any inits at all. Python effects are not easy. Things like animation require Python scripting to some extent.

For example, I'm using NVL Mode and Witch Hunt's font choice to make the delivery of text look as close to Umineko as possible (fade screen, display text on full screen). To do that, you need special inits:
Code:
    # NVL Mode    
    config.empty_window = nvl_show_core
    style.create("justify_style", "default", u"(text) Justify Style")
    style.justify_style.justify = True
That's actually old; I no longer use right-justified text because it was causing display glitches. Before that, I could get the "Umineko effect" from just that one line, which is in the handbook, and an init character that's set to use the NVL mode, which is there as well.

Then they broke it with patches and Oliver had to do some wizardry to fix it:
Code:
    config.window_hide_transition = Dissolve(0.35)
    config.window_show_transition = Dissolve(0.35)
    def window_switch_callback(mode, old_modes):
        if mode in ["nvl","nvl_menu"] and old_modes[0] == "with":
            nvl_show(config.window_show_transition)
        if mode == "with" and old_modes[0] in ["nvl","nvl_menu"]:
            nvl_hide(config.window_hide_transition)    
    config.mode_callbacks.append(window_switch_callback)
That's certainly more complicated, but I don't ever have to actually reference any of that stuff once it's been defined. I can go back to using window show/window hide without even noticing or caring. The other stuff I found on the wiki or could do through experimentation. I defined most of the transforms myself, which is why in a lot of my screenshots/movies you see characters zoomed in on and whatnot. You can actually do a ton of more advanced transform effects, like physically causing a portrait to move, using very simple defines; Katawa Shoujo uses this a lot, but it's not really appropriate for Umineko so I haven't made much use of it.

That being said, Python is not really all that hard to learn. While it may look a bit complicated, making Python do what you want is far better-documented and easier to set up than other scripting engines, especially in English. Plus if RenPy teaches you a little bit of Python, that's at least got a bit of potential value outside of Visual Novel architecture. I suppose you could try putting "proficient in Python" on your resume and hoping nobody calls the bluff...

However, it has a pretty coherent and forgiving file architecture and a well-documented wiki/handbook, so I've been able to do most things without needing wacky Python stuff. Oliver just cooked up a few effects (like animation and panoramic screen movement, the latter of which I'm not using) because he's got some adequate knowledge of Python and RenPy. A good many Python-assisted effects are baked into the basic scripting language, meaning you don't have to reach. You just have the option to reach.
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Old 2012-05-25, 14:26   Link #224
Captain Bluebeard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
EDIT: Oops, yeah, here's what you need to do. The part I pasted before goes in init:. The part I'm pasting now goes in init python:.

Code:
    # RainAlpha is the total alpha level of the entire rain sheet.
    RainAlpha = 0.7
        
    # RainY is rain speed, basically how long does it take
    # for the rain sheet to fall down.
    RainY = 1
    # RainX is the same for horizontal movement,
    # and needs to be manually adjusted to fit the screen width.
    RainX = RainY*6
        
    # Derived values which this mess of a code uses.
    RainLayerAlpha = RainAlpha/3
    RainYM = RainY*2
    RainXM = RainX*2
    RainYF = RainYM*2
    RainXF = RainXM*2
Thank you, it works perfectly fine now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I thought Ren'py was easier to use than onscripter, but I'm beginning to wonder if that only applies for the basic stuff and not the more advanced.
I've never attempted onscripter, but as for Renpy, since I can use it, then even the monkey with a typewriter can use it to create Amlet's adaptation in a visual novel without being given an infinite span of time.
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Old 2012-05-25, 15:51   Link #225
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Book View Post
Just finished Inquisition of the Golden Witch. Overall I enjoyed it, but I wish I would have been in the interactive part some more. I made the choice of
Spoiler:
so I kind of feel I got cut off way earlier than I should have. From what I understood reading on this board, I couldn't just restart and try and find a better path either...

The Tea Party was neat though, and the ??? was nice as well.
Since you've read the Tea Party to the very end, this should unlock the ability for you to redo the main game and take as many different routes as you want. The only reason it's limited the first time is to make the game as "unfair" as possible. I guarantee you there's a ton more content than you were able to see the first time around, even if you were to make it all the way to the end. That's just how I made the game; no one can see everything on their first playthrough.

And don't feel too bad, Meta-Battler himself fell for that trap too. But interestingly enough he was able to deduce the truth even without playing the rest of the game. I gave him five chances to guess the culprit; he made a guess on the first one, wasted three more on joke theories, and for his final theory he narrowed it down to either the culprit or an innocent person. Unfortunately for him, he picked the innocent. Had he been given one more chance (or had he wasted one less theory) he would have solved it perfectly in five tries.
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Old 2012-05-25, 16:19   Link #226
RandomAvatarFan
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I've finished reading Seacats EP1 and EP2 (still in the middle of Trick's answer session)

I have to say, I think I took more notes on your forgeries did I did in the original! In fact I've been playing the majority of EP2 with notepad opened right next to it.
The mysteries you present are really interesting, and you do a nice job mixing the fantasy into the work. It's really fun! I have a theory regarding Trick, (I still can't explain the first twilight) and I want to see how it plays up in the TP =) Great Job!
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Old 2012-05-25, 18:53   Link #227
GabrieliosP
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Age: 18
I decided to create a blog in order to keep progress of my Forgery. The link is both here and in my signature. Nothing too fancy because it is only to indicate how far I am to finish it.

Renall, thanks to both you and Oliver for the rain effect. Both of you are credited for it in the blog and will be mentioned in the game credits once everything is finished. I was going to report the rain error but Captain Bluebeard beat me to it.
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Old 2012-05-25, 19:42   Link #228
Thunder Book
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Since you've read the Tea Party to the very end, this should unlock the ability for you to redo the main game and take as many different routes as you want. The only reason it's limited the first time is to make the game as "unfair" as possible. I guarantee you there's a ton more content than you were able to see the first time around, even if you were to make it all the way to the end. That's just how I made the game; no one can see everything on their first playthrough.

And don't feel too bad, Meta-Battler himself fell for that trap too. But interestingly enough he was able to deduce the truth even without playing the rest of the game. I gave him five chances to guess the culprit; he made a guess on the first one, wasted three more on joke theories, and for his final theory he narrowed it down to either the culprit or an innocent person. Unfortunately for him, he picked the innocent. Had he been given one more chance (or had he wasted one less theory) he would have solved it perfectly in five tries.
Yeah, I'll do another playthrough definitely. The thing is I was pretty sure I was making good choices too, though some I was unsure about, like

Spoiler:


And agh, Meta-Battler figured it out that quickly? I didn't figure out the culprit until my 9th choice.
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Old 2012-05-25, 21:01   Link #229
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Book View Post
Yeah, I'll do another playthrough definitely. The thing is I was pretty sure I was making good choices too, though some I was unsure about, like

Spoiler:
What those things actually do:

Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2012-05-26, 04:13   Link #230
Drifloon
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Quote:
And agh, Meta-Battler figured it out that quickly? I didn't figure out the culprit until my 9th choice.
Honestly, it's pretty easy to do by process of elimination.

Spoiler for Inquisition:


I did get to witness all the murders, though.
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Old 2012-05-26, 05:29   Link #231
Thunder Book
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Honestly I didn't realize how big of a help
Spoiler:
was until far too late, so I basically screwed myself over. I couldn't remember who died in the later Twilights either (At the selection screen you can't right click, though I just now realized I could have done so after making a single guess).

Basically Inquisition taught me I'm a huge idiot. I had fun playing it though.
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Old 2012-05-26, 06:52   Link #232
Captain Bluebeard
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Just started SeagullCrazy's /Seacats/, and I must say it is very good so far!
It cuts to the cheese a bit fast, but it's very fun and has many inspiring closed rooms. I'm going to try my hardest to solve them.

P.S: Taking a look at the custom sprites file of EP4 makes me really look forward to it!
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Old 2012-05-26, 07:25   Link #233
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan View Post
I've finished reading Seacats EP1 and EP2 (still in the middle of Trick's answer session)

I have to say, I think I took more notes on your forgeries did I did in the original! In fact I've been playing the majority of EP2 with notepad opened right next to it.
The mysteries you present are really interesting, and you do a nice job mixing the fantasy into the work. It's really fun! I have a theory regarding Trick, (I still can't explain the first twilight) and I want to see how it plays up in the TP =) Great Job!
Somehow I didn't see this post earlier, anyway thanks. That first twilight seems to stump everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard
Just started SeagullCrazy's /Seacats/, and I must say it is very good so far!
It cuts to the cheese a bit fast, but it's very fun and has many inspiring closed rooms. I'm going to try my hardest to solve them.

P.S: Taking a look at the custom sprites file of EP4 makes me really look forward to it!
Well, I wouldn't recommend looking at the custom sprites before playing, but I'm glad it caught your interest! EP4 is a rather weird game compared to the others, but I hope you like it just as much!
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Old 2012-05-26, 10:37   Link #234
TwilightsCall
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Speaking of Van Dine, that is one thing that drove me absolutely crazy when reading seacats.

Was Van Dine's 17th deliberately misinterpreted for the story, or was that actually a mistake?

It reads like this:

Spoiler for Van Dine's 17th:


This doesn't mean that the murderer 'doesn't feel guilt,' it means that the guilty party is not a professional criminal.

In the end I realize that its not really a big deal, and the fact the characters discuss it as the way you interpreted it kind of absolves the error by explaining it to the reader, but I must admit it really did bother me when I was reading it

I had some beef with the way a few of the other Van Dine's were interpreted/used/...ignored, but this is the one that stood out as being incorrect more than just forgotten.
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Old 2012-05-26, 12:34   Link #235
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Well, Ryukishi didn't exactly use Knox correctly either.
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Old 2012-05-26, 14:00   Link #236
AuraTwilight
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Ryukishi never really USED Dine in any real way, so I don't see the problem.
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Old 2012-05-26, 15:58   Link #237
Captain Bluebeard
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Ryukishi never really USED Dine in any real way, so I don't see the problem.
Seriously, most of Van Dine's rules seem as though they were MADE to contradict Umineko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Well, I wouldn't recommend looking at the custom sprites before playing, but I'm glad it caught your interest! EP4 is a rather weird game compared to the others, but I hope you like it just as much!
It's not like it spoiled me or anything, since there's nothing I could guess just by looking. In fact I always did take a look at the sprites of Umineko's actual episodes while waiting for the English Patch to come out. (I sure didn't expect Dr. Ozaki and Shion there, though, to be honest).

I've procceeded up to the seventh twilight of the first EP. My thoughts so far:

Spoiler for Forgery of The Golden Witch:


My head's a mess right now, so those are the only ones I could think of for the time being. As for how dunnit, I have some ideas but I'll need to ponder over it a little more before putting any of those into words. Oh, and just out of curiosity, do we get to see any red in this EP?

P.S: Again, congrats to you, Seagull Crazy, this is a very fun fanfic.
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:20   Link #238
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Spoiler for Van Dine's 17th:


This doesn't mean that the murderer 'doesn't feel guilt,' it means that the guilty party is not a professional criminal.

In the end I realize that its not really a big deal, and the fact the characters discuss it as the way you interpreted it kind of absolves the error by explaining it to the reader, but I must admit it really did bother me when I was reading it

I had some beef with the way a few of the other Van Dine's were interpreted/used/...ignored, but this is the one that stood out as being incorrect more than just forgotten.
Wow, uh... I think I really, really misinterpreted that rule

I'm not sure how I missed that... but no one ever really pointed that to me out until now, actually. Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard
My head's a mess right now, so those are the only ones I could think of for the time being. As for how dunnit, I have some ideas but I'll need to ponder over it a little more before putting any of those into words. Oh, and just out of curiosity, do we get to see any red in this EP?
For Forgery, red only shows up in the Tea Party, which is the answer session.
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Old 2012-05-26, 19:45   Link #239
TwilightsCall
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Alright, now that I've got that off my chest xD

So I've been dabbling a little bit with ONScripter over the past few days (Kinjo, you are an outstanding individual, your guide has been unbelievably helpful) and I must say I have seriously underestimated the amount of work you guys put in to making these fangames.

I honestly spent approximately 10~ hours? editing a short pilot I made for a forgery (that may or may not see the light of day), and for that 10 hours of work I had...40 minutes of screen time? And that doesn't even include the time it took me to WRITE the story in the first place...

So kudos to Kinjo and Jan Poo, and anyone else out there who has been working on fangames like theirs that I havn't had a chance to read yet. The amount of time you people must have put in is absolutely unbelievable.

EDIT: Oh that reminds me, I was having a bit of trouble trying to get costume switching to work. For example, the switch I was trying to make was to make Featherine appear in her Witch's attire, however every time I tried it threw an error. I managed to work around it for the short term, but its going to be an issue if I try and continue this. Any help in resolving it would be greatly appreciated.

Spoiler for Error:

Last edited by TwilightsCall; 2012-05-26 at 19:59.
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Old 2012-05-26, 20:27   Link #240
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post

So kudos to Kinjo and Jan Poo, and anyone else out there who has been working on fangames like theirs that I havn't had a chance to read yet. The amount of time you people must have put in is absolutely unbelievable.
And you still have no idea how much it took to edit all the graphic and portraits.

But well... both my VN and Kinjo's were realized in a time span of several years. I don't think I can even give an estimate of the total time I've spent on mine. The trick is patience and perseverance.
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