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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 11 28.21%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 11 28.21%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 30.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 12.82%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-25, 08:12   Link #221
Vena
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Those are certainly very interesting ideas and interpretations you've put forward there, Vena. Great work piecing all these clues together to come up with it.

I guess that some of us have simply lost faith in the writing of this show to the point that we (or at least I) never imagined they could manage something as carefully complex, detailed, and precise as what you just laid out.

I'm not 100% convinced that you're right (mainly since if you're right, I would think that the writers would have foreshadowed this better), but it's a very solid interpretation you have going right now. It would also serve to explain certain writing elements that many of us have found questionable.
Its Mashifony all over again.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
? I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with either, I just listed them. The themes are there whether I like them or agree with them or not. ^^;; Btw no matter how much I agree with something this series has shown that it's perfectly possible to screw up the execution, so yeah.
You missed the joke. That was a completely non-serious line.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Coming up with a decent setup and decent story is one thing. Adapting that story to various media is another thing. (Me, I have several great ideas for stories in my head, well, I think they're pretty cool. But I suck at plotting so any attempts of writing them would fail miserably.) It's not simply the drama that make people not see the "beauty in the details," it's the entire execution of the story that pushed the main players into the background (to say nothing of poor Zessica), screwed up the focus and the pacing, and made many people lose interest in either all of the main characters, or just some of them. We all knew, or at least had some idea for why Mikono protected Kagura - at the very least, we knew there was something that we didn't know and would learn sooner or later. The problem is the way the scene and the aftermath was presented. (As I said back then, that "forgive him" must have something behind it, otherwise it's just plain wrong on every single level - but it not only hasn't been elaborated on since then, in any way, but the incident was pushed into the background so much we could only guess how it was influencing those involved. And of course everyone else's reaction was wtf.) Last minute revelations and pieces falling into place only work when there's proper foundation for them.
I guess it comes down to who you think is the main character and what you think is the main focus, as I've said in the past this could well change if EVOL turns out to be a deconstruction rather a straight shooter with regards to many common tropes. I don't disagree that pacing is really bad at times and that some characters were handled poorly, but thems the breaks as they say.

Kagura's really the worst handled and there's not much to be said about him but Mikono and Zessica, for the most part (and setting aside *surprise dad* and *constantly changing ShuShu*), weren't that bad. And I happen to like how Amata was handled, for the most part, and, if this is a deconstruction, there was a strong emphasis on his character flaws.

Mikono is, as far as I'm concerned, the main character of the story around whom the doers and the shakers do their thing, around whom the major plot points revolve, and a character that has shown growth as a character in many dimensions just none suitably strong in the direction of romance which has ruffled some feathers. I've never hid my disdain for Mikono's character but I'm not going to deny that she's actually matured as a character, I just hate the archetype (I think she's (predominantly was, I think she's woken up to the fact a bit) a self-absorbed bitch) and I dislike some of the *sympathy points* decisions they've made (surprise dad).

Concerning Zessica, I don't really understand anyone in here crying foul. What we've had is standard fair tragic, romantic development the problem is, also, exactly that, its been standard fair tragic, romantic development. One sided or not, the mere fact that it is pretty much textbook and with hints of a deconstruction in the wind, I have to wonder how many people don't like Zessica's route merely because of *shipping* and how many actually don't like how her character has been handled for other reasons. If we must give criticism its that they milked it for all it was worth but, again, pacing. I mean I don't understand why people complain that she's not the character she was 21 episodes ago... what logic does this follow? Do people enjoy stories where character are completely static through the whole thing? Why does no one complain that Andy's changed drastically? Or MIX? Or Mikono? Or Amata? Or Cayenne? Or Shrade? Oh no! Zessica has shown character growth but I don't like it, so it must be bad!

tldr; Pacing is bad, I agree, hit or miss on the characters and just how bad they are.

PS: I'm writing this on no sleep, so I apologize if my thoughts a bit thrown around or strange sounding.
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Old 2012-05-25, 08:41   Link #222
Zuul
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I don't dislike where it seems to be heading. I have had my doubt at some point, especially reading this boards, but Zessica's angst is much more bearable and sensical retrospectivelly now that she has an actual chance and is not be the complete underdog who appeared to be made to suffer just for the lulz of sadist authors.

@Vena

You're harsh on Kagura, the dude has got little to no screentime, but he has been one of the most entertaining character as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 2012-05-25, 08:46   Link #223
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
So know you think that you know what someone else is thinking better than the person themselves?
You didn't read a thing I said. You said from your own experience than you had the nerve to tell me that I couldn't state the same. Which is faulty logic because whether you want to admit it or not you're just as bias if not more bias on this subject than I am. So take it as you will but don't try and act like your opinion is more valid and than trying to devalue anothers opinion as impossible.

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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
That very thought has certainly crossed my mind a few times, specially after that fabulous love declaration. But I'm still hopeful of some kind of resolution, here - even if not a happy one.
With how much they've been trolling the viewers it isn't farfetched to expect anything. A lot can still happen in 5 episodes, I mean episode 21 seemed to have more plot than nearly the entire series all smashed into 1.
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Old 2012-05-25, 08:48   Link #224
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
You missed the joke. That was a completely non-serious line.
I realized it was non-serious, but I didn't quite get in what way. ^^;; Sorry, my brain is fried today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Concerning Zessica, I don't really understand anyone in here crying foul. What we've had is standard fair tragic, romantic development the problem is, also, exactly that, its been standard fair tragic, romantic development. One sided or not, the mere fact that it is pretty much textbook and with hints of a deconstruction in the wind, I have to wonder how many people don't like Zessica's route merely because of *shipping* and how many actually don't like how her character has been handled for other reasons.
Oh, come on! In the same vein I could ask the rhetorical question of how many people don't like Mikono and her development because of *shipping* or preferring and rooting for Zessica, and how many actually don't like how her character handled for other reasons. (I hate, hate how apparently you can only like a character if you hate another, and Mikono, and to a lesser extent Amata too, are very much victims of this mentality - btw I'm not necessarily referring to you, though I don't know your reasons for disdaining her. I happen to like her very much and don't think she's a bitch at all, and this has nothing to do with which boy she will choose and why.)

Me, I don't like Zessica's route because of reasons GoldenLand and myelf have already mentioned. For one, the writing has been incredibly manipulative where she's concerned, which is something I hate, especially when it's about how I should feel sorry for someone. I tolerate melodrama to a degree, but Zessica has crossed that certain line in ep 18 (or whatever # came after her "challenging" Mikono). And two, her "development" consisted of narrowing her character down to one single thing and making that her entire raison d'etre. Her character traits that made her endearing in the first place have all but disappeared, and while she has shown care and selflessness and self-sacrifice, it was all, all connected to her love.* And to make it worse, it's the wangsty, depressive, "my life is worth nothing if he can't be mine" kind of love, on full blast, and while I like drama as much as the next person, I can't tolerate this for a long time. Things were looking promising when she "challenged" Mikono in the banana episode, only for the writers to make her hit total rock bottom in the following episodes, and make her do nothing but angst and angst and angst for how many episodes, with the short intermission of the Altair expedition where she did some stuff aside of angsting. Even Kagura with his total focus on Mikono has more layers to him than Zessica at this moment (partly due to the mystery about him, sure, but they never even hinted such mystery about Zessica). The only connection to shipping here is that I will be even more disappointed with the writing if, after all this, they hand her Amata in one way or another, because it wouldn't help what they'd done to her character, but it would be convulted and to make it worse it the would tap into some things that I really, really loathe. (ie. "love interest obligatorily returning her love because she deserves it for loving him so much," "obligatory happy end because she deserves it by being very much in love," "now her entire character will never be more than 'loves some guy'," etc.) (And no, I'm not going to discuss this last part because I'm sick of it, really.)

And all this while they keep showing her in a positive light. In one way it makes sense since she's one of the good guys, but on the other hand... well, this whole, blatantly pushed "pity the poor girl, she's dying of love but she's too good-hearted to stand between her love interest and his love" thing... I'm not one to throw such "accusations" around, but there's a term over at TVTropes for what her current state and poisiton seems to me at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I mean I don't understand why people complain that she's not the character she was 21 episodes ago... what logic does this follow? Do people enjoy stories where character are completely static through the whole thing? Why does no one complain that Andy's changed drastically? Or MIX? Or Mikono? Or Amata? Or Cayenne? Or Shrade? Oh no! Zessica has shown character growth but I don't like it, so it must be bad!
The problem is not that Zessica is not the same character, the problem is what kind of character she turned into. She didn't evolve, she pretty much... devolved into a pile of Tragic Love, losing her other character traits. Think what you want about Mikono, her character was expanded. Same with Amata, Cayenne, Shrade, etc. Not Zessica.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-25 at 09:10.
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Old 2012-05-25, 08:57   Link #225
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Well, at least she got some development and was the star for 10+ episodes even if not everyone agrees with her being unable to let Amata go, which to be fair she was in the denial stage on Episode 17 and it isn't that easy to forget about someone you love when you have to see them everyday. Which is still far better than Shrade who will "not" die. Seriously, the preview even shows him alive which I hope is just a troll preview and Shrade finally dies. He already had plenty of moments to go out in a blaze of glory but they still have to milk that he's "Dying" thing and than have him suddenly get better to pilot Aquarion again even though it's supposed to be killing him. It's Xingke from Code Geass all over again, the illness was supposed to make you care but in the end what was the point in adding it in other than trying to give the character some unneeded angst?
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:05   Link #226
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Well, at least she got some development and was the star for 10+ episodes even if not everyone agrees with her being unable to let Amata go, which to be fair she was in the denial stage on Episode 17 and it isn't that easy to forget about someone you love when you have to see them everyday. Which is still far better than Shrade who will "not" die. Seriously, the preview even shows him alive which I hope is just a troll preview and Shrade finally dies. He already had plenty of moments to go out in a blaze of glory but they still have to milk that he's "Dying" thing and than have him suddenly get better to pilot Aquarion again even though it's supposed to be killing him. It's Xingke from Code Geass all over again, the illness was supposed to make you care but in the end what was the point in adding it in other than trying to give the character some unneeded angst?
He seems to have a solution for Altair. He cannot die yet.

It's the sort of troll I like to be honest, overcoming deathflags.
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:10   Link #227
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He seems to have a solution for Altair. He cannot die yet.

It's the sort of troll I like to be honest, overcoming deathflags.
It stopped being a death flag when he got in the Aquarion for 3rd time despite being warned that his body couldn't take it and that he would surely die if he got in again. Now it's just milking. I wouldn't be surprised if they just "forget" about Shrades illness or have Aquarion perform miracles and he's suddenly better thus rendering that plot point moot.
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:13   Link #228
Vena
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I realized it was non-serious, but I didn't quite get in what way. ^^;; Sorry, my brain is fried today.
Mine too, no sleep.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Oh, come on! In the same vein I could ask the rhetorical question of how many people don't like Mikono and her development because of *shipping* or preferring and rooting for Zessica, and how many actually don't like how her character handled for other reasons. (I hate, hate how apparently you can only like a character if you hate another, and Mikono, and to a lesser extent Amata too, are very much victims of this mentality - btw I'm not necessarily referring to you, though I don't know your reasons for disdaining her. I happen to like her very much and don't think she's a bitch at all, and this has nothing to do with which boy she will choose and why.)
You can say the same thing, and you'll notice that I treated Mikono similarly as Zessica, she's grown and changed. The issue between views arises simply in taste and, well, views. We see different things and draw different conclusions. I don't like Mikono because, to me, she just comes off as a bitch. Why? Because that's the impression I got (remember, I liked her at the start, she just wore out her welcome by continuing the jelly-jelly stuff for as long as it went on. I likened it to flying boner, which was dropped and how that didn't overstay its welcome). She's grown as a character, overcome past hurdles, but this detail, as I see it, just hasn't changed. For Zessica, its as Triple_R said, I find her easy to root for because she's the underdog, the tragic figure, and her character had a good first impression.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Me, I don't like Zessica's route because of reasons GoldenLand and myelf have already mentioned. For one, the writing has been incredibly manipulative where she's concerned, which is something I hate, especially when it's about how I should feel sorry for someone. I tolerate melodrama to a degree, but Zessica has crossed that certain line in ep 18 (or whatever # came after her "challenging" Mikono). And two, her "development" consisted of narrowing her character down to one single thing and making that her entire raison d'etre. Her character traits that made her endearing in the first place have all but disappeared, and while she has shown care and selflessness and self-sacrifice, it was all, all connected to her love. And to make it worse, it's the wangsty, depressive, "my life is worth nothing if he can't be mine" kind of love, on full blast, and while I like drama as much as the next person, I can't tolerate this for a long time.
See, I can say the same exact thing (to just return your rhetoric) about Mikono. What do you like about Mikono's handling by the writing? She had Amata AND Kagura literally dropped in her lap and both guys have massive crushes on her, but (as far as I'm concerned) she's done very little to actually deserve it (this ties into my view that the jelly-jelly routine got old fast). What does Mikono's character revolve around? Love. What does Andy revolve around? Love. What does any character in this show revolve around? Love. The fact that Zessica revolves around love shouldn't be surprising. Andy's entire raison d'etre at this point is wangsting over his failed confession then his MIX going manly. (And, I really don't think Zessica's development was sudden or all that bad. She shows interest in the guy since Ep. 1, Fudo's lines are very peculiar with regards to certain events with her, and, as I've talked with mike on this, the dialogue has been alluding to things indirectly.)

If anything, I think that Zessica and Mikono suffer from the same drag issue, neither can take center stage for full on development through the mid-point in the series so they both just hover in vague-space of development and it feels like certain things are just painfully dragged out (Mikono being a bitch for me, Zessica being wooby for longer than necessary for you).

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
The problem is not that Zessica is not the same character, the problem is what kind of character she turned into. She didn't evolve, she pretty much... devolved into a pile of Tragic Love, losing her other character traits. Think what you want about Mikono, her character was expanded. Same with Amata, Cayenne, Shrade, etc. Not Zessica.
I just don't agree. And again, it comes down to views and interpretations. There's really no reason to continue something that we're clearly not going to agree on.
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:16   Link #229
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On Zessica - Honestly, I do completely get where kuromitsu is coming from.

Zessica started out as a brash, playful, courageous genki girl with a real zest for life. Lovely character.

She's since descended into endless love-angst, with her early playful zeal for life being a rapidly fading memory (as it's from over 10 episodes ago, now).

This obviously isn't pleasing character development for most people that liked Zessica from the get-go (as I did). That being said, it does make her very easy to root for.


This would bother me more except I'm sadly used to genki girls getting this sort of treatment. Awhile back I noticed stark similarities between Zessica and Madoka Magica's Sayaka Miki (another brash, playful, courageous genki girl), and that basically prepared me for what's happened to Zessica since I noticed those similarities.

For whatever reason, "breaking the genki girl" has become the new favorite past time of anime writers.


But still, I still see a small glimmer of hope for Zessica to turn it around... and that's even if she doesn't get her desired happy ending with Amata. Maybe the old Zessica will shine again at some point...
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:33   Link #230
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What does Mikono's character revolve around? Love. What does Andy revolve around? Love. What does any character in this show revolve around? Love. The fact that Zessica revolves around love shouldn't be surprising. Andy's entire raison d'etre at this point is wangsting over his failed confession then his MIX going manly.
True about Andy. He's only a side character, mind, but love is pretty much the only thing he revolves around. If we contrast him with MIX, she does a little better: we know a tiny bit about her past, and that she has issues with men. Although the latter could be considered a romantic love-related thing too, even though it sprang from her dad's behaviour.

With Mikono, I'm not actually sure that her character revolves around love. Okay, love is a major theme of the series - it's in the title, backwards! it can't be denied - and there are two guys who like her (...okay, so they happen to be the same person...) but if I had to pick the central idea for her as a character, it would be one of changing herself into a person she likes better, trying to become someone with backbone who can be useful. She started out as a timid person with cripplingly low self esteem which hampers her immensely, convinced that she was totally useless, to the point where she bonded with Amata over thinking they were both losers and non-special, and failed to shake Zessica's hand. She was so closed in on herself and persuaded of failing before starting that it was hard for her to communicate meaningfully with anyone at all, or to try to take any positive action. The changes she's gone through aren't just because of romantic feelings.

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For whatever reason, "breaking the genki girl" has become the new favorite past time of anime writers.
Hopefully, the writers will give up on that eventually and let Zessica have a better ending! It's getting a bit sadistic. I don't want an Urobuchi ending for her...
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Old 2012-05-25, 09:51   Link #231
kuromitsu
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For Zessica, its as Triple_R said, I find her easy to root for because she's the underdog, the tragic figure, and her character had a good first impression.
Well, this is a difference in taste, then. I rarely find myself automatically rooting for the underdog, I have a low tolerance for the kind of "tragic" they're doing with Zessica (as I said, to me it's already in the "ridiculous" and "oh please" zone - and this is coming from someone who eats up classic shoujo and shounen ai with a spoon!), and I like Mikono despite her flaws.

For that matter-- and this goes for Zessica, Mikono, and the rest-- I think I'm jaded enough that I've stopped blaming characters for what the writing does to them. While I really don't like where Zessica is now, I don't hate her for it because it was such a blatantly engineered development. With Mikono, her whole jealousy stint was similarly blatantly engineered (the part where they milked it because lol flying boner, and that gag turned very old very fast).

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What does Mikono's character revolve around? Love.
Not really. Sure, love is an important part of her character, but you can't deny that there's a lot more to her than that. There's her power, her mysterious past life/whatever, her role in the great scheme of things, her coming out of her shell, slowly but surely shaking off her insecurities, Cayenne and her father's domineering influence on her life, and so on and so forth. (True, the dad thing was introduced very late in the series, but it was made obvious from the start that what Cayenne had been doing to her also had a huge role in her being so timid and insecure.)

With Zessica, there's nothing of this sort. She's just "loves Amata." And not only that, but she turned from a not exactly fleshed-out but at least interesting character into a complete one-note, and a wangsty one at that.

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I just don't agree. And again, it comes down to views and interpretations. There's really no reason to continue something that we're clearly not going to agree on.
...was just about to say. As I said earlier, we're really looking at this from two very different points of view, so yeah, agree to disagree. (I just really, really hate the Mikono bashing that turns up so often here.)
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Old 2012-05-25, 10:21   Link #232
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True about Andy. He's only a side character, mind, but love is pretty much the only thing he revolves around. If we contrast him with MIX, she does a little better: we know a tiny bit about her past, and that she has issues with men. Although the latter could be considered a romantic love-related thing too, even though it sprang from her dad's behaviour.

With Mikono, I'm not actually sure that her character revolves around love. Okay, love is a major theme of the series - it's in the title, backwards! it can't be denied - and there are two guys who like her (...okay, so they happen to be the same person...) but if I had to pick the central idea for her as a character, it would be one of changing herself into a person she likes better, trying to become someone with backbone who can be useful. She started out as a timid person with cripplingly low self esteem which hampers her immensely, convinced that she was totally useless, to the point where she bonded with Amata over thinking they were both losers and non-special, and failed to shake Zessica's hand. She was so closed in on herself and persuaded of failing before starting that it was hard for her to communicate meaningfully with anyone at all, or to try to take any positive action. The changes she's gone through aren't just because of romantic feelings.



Hopefully, the writers will give up on that eventually and let Zessica have a better ending! It's getting a bit sadistic. I don't want an Urobuchi ending for her...
Well, Love plays a part in everything in Evol so I see all characters revolved around it. They just deal with it differently. Zessica is dealing with her love for Amata who can't see her love because he's trying to ger Mikono's love who can't commit to his love because she's trying to understand Kagura's love who's trying to troll Amata and take Mikono away to love her while Mykage is abusing all that love to get what he wants. If anyone is having fun in al this sadistic despair and chasing love spree it's Mykage, that guy must be sipping fine wine and laughing at his trolling antics on a daily basis.

I do agree that Mikono isn't the same weak girl from the start but it makes me wonder how Amata will deal with that as well. He fell in love with the weak Mikono yet not she doesn't really need him and is trying to do great things without him while he's far from her mind. Amata on the other hand couldn't stop thinking about Mikono until Zessica supposedly died and he grew a pair of balls. I fully expect him to put up a very decent fight against Kagura because he isn't the same man he was when they first met. Also he has been practicing on how to counteract the Reverse power that Kagura has, he failed the first time but now that he's focused, pissed off, and determined things might not end up the same way.
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:31   Link #233
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On Zessica - Honestly, I do completely get where kuromitsu is coming from.

Zessica started out as a brash, playful, courageous genki girl with a real zest for life. Lovely character.

She's since descended into endless love-angst, with her early playful zeal for life being a rapidly fading memory (as it's from over 10 episodes ago, now).

This obviously isn't pleasing character development for most people that liked Zessica from the get-go (as I did). That being said, it does make her very easy to root for.


This would bother me more except I'm sadly used to genki girls getting this sort of treatment. Awhile back I noticed stark similarities between Zessica and Madoka Magica's Sayaka Miki (another brash, playful, courageous genki girl), and that basically prepared me for what's happened to Zessica since I noticed those similarities.

For whatever reason, "breaking the genki girl" has become the new favorite past time of anime writers.


But still, I still see a small glimmer of hope for Zessica to turn it around... and that's even if she doesn't get her desired happy ending with Amata. Maybe the old Zessica will shine again at some point...
Actually, in terms of Zessica's character though I do find it frustrating I can't help think of her character of a destruction those type of girls you see in anime.

In terms of characterization she is handled a bit differently than Sayaka, in that while Sayaka fell in love someone who was basically up for grabs. Zessica did not.

She knew from day one that Amata had his heart set on Mikono, and yet she flirted with him anyway. But while flirting there is always that risk of growing feelings for the person your flirting with, even if you didn't mean for it to end up that way. That is what is happening to Zessica, and actually what realistically happens to girls do the same thing. So I can't really call this part of the series bad writing, because I've seen it happen so many times in real life, its not funny.

Really the only things that make this ridiculous are how long this been going on, how no one has snapped her out of it, why she hasn't smacked herself out of it, and how her character is now defined by it.


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You didn't read a thing I said. You said from your own experience than you had the nerve to tell me that I couldn't state the same. Which is faulty logic because whether you want to admit it or not you're just as bias if not more bias on this subject than I am. So take it as you will but don't try and act like your opinion is more valid and than trying to devalue anothers opinion as impossible.
Except I only said that in regards to you using your experience as the golden rule, and to point out that it isn't the same for everyone. You really need to get off your high horse and stop assuming that you know everything about someone else.
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Old 2012-05-25, 11:42   Link #234
Vena
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But still, I still see a small glimmer of hope for Zessica to turn it around... and that's even if she doesn't get her desired happy ending with Amata. Maybe the old Zessica will shine again at some point...
See this is the thing I don't agree with, those traits of hers as the genki girl didn't outright disappear, and you can see them popping in and out on her public face even when she's internally jaded. She's strong, she shows it, and she maintains her persona for others but is broken in private. This was actually one of the neater details, I thought. She only really breaks down post dress and MIX kidnapping.

Remember our discussion about the strength of character and the type of character that was required to tell Amata to screw destiny (her only real shot she had to getting with Amata back then, Kagura taking away Mikono). Or her bravery to repeat her confession. All of these little details tie into her original character portrayal. The only parts that lost is the general tomboy-ish bro side she had early on but the general totems of her character never disappeared and, if you ask me, some of them became much more accentuated.

Kindness: Worrying about Amata over herself (does this multiple times, and saves his life twice now.)
Strength: Fight fate.
Bravery: Confession.
Genki: Public persona, I blame Mykage visions.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Really the only things that make this ridiculous are how long this been going on, how no one has snapped her out of it, why she hasn't smacked herself out of it, and how her character is now defined by it.
I think she has snapped out of it, the lines in this episode imply that she's given up on this life ending up with Amata, but she hopes for the next. The problem really comes back to the pacing, but she went through pretty standard steps of denial.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:06   Link #235
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post

I think she has snapped out of it, the lines in this episode imply that she's given up on this life ending up with Amata, but she hopes for the next. The problem really comes back to the pacing, but she went through pretty standard steps of denial.
This.

But I think that the problem is not just pacing but also a lack of focus.
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Old 2012-05-25, 12:47   Link #236
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Mykage cut Zessica off, she doesn't even get to make a promise to meet in 12,000 years either. So that means she's not out of the game yet in the triangle(Not Quad because Kagura has no interest in her and she doesn't have an interest in Kagura) especially since Amata has to deal with his heart responding to both Mikono and Zessica now. Something he hasn't ever had to deal with before.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Except I only said that in regards to you using your experience as the golden rule, and to point out that it isn't the same for everyone. You really need to get off your high horse and stop assuming that you know everything about someone else.
We're through talking than since you refuse to read anything I post and make baseless assumptions to try and belittle my opinion while placing yours on a pedestal. I have far better things to do than be talked down to someone who can't get over their own ego.
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Old 2012-05-25, 13:53   Link #237
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
For whatever reason, "breaking the genki girl" has become the new favorite past time of anime writers.
Well, to be honest, there's nothing new about that, specially if you follow shonen romance anime/manga.
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Old 2012-05-25, 17:17   Link #238
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
[...]
Great remarks. A very good job putting the pieces together. I lost the enthusiasm to keep track of each hint and clue along the road TBH.

So, the situation seems clearer now, Mikono's hesitation is/was caused by the fact that for some reason, her past?, she feels that Amata is not the whole, but a half of the whole. Instead Zessica felt in love with Amata as a whole. Now, who is right and who is not?
We could say that Zessica's love is the purest because she felt in love with Amata for what he is (now). But from the other hand Mikono was wavering because he is not the whole. Following the concept that you need to love good sides and bad sides of a person. If we assume that Kagura is the "bad" side of Amagura. But, basically Zessica is looking at the present and Mikono at the past.
But, and I don't know if it could be another theme here, or if it has any meaning, each couple is dealing or has dealt with inner conflict. Yunoha dealt with Jin's enemy origins, Andy is facing the biggest issue here, could he love Mix/y despite the lacking of the big bangs and the presence of another king of big ... ehm? Mikono is dealing (or not?) with the Amata/Kagura split issue. Will she really discard Kagura? So, apparently Zessica is the only one who felt in love blindly*.
And I'm not counting that hints (the black wedding and the raping gattai dream) are winking to Mikono sacrificing herself for some reason, putting Amagura together?
Ok, Amata too felt in love blindly, and it is true that Amata and Zessica are alike as characters and character's development. They have had quite none.
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Old 2012-05-26, 04:27   Link #239
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^^ the merging would be utter crap. But thankfully the detachment wing event dicards it. And regarding at genesis the whole stuff about Mikono's vague feelings for Amata has nothing to do with his being an incomplete Appolonius. Sylvia fell for an incomplete Appollonius without a probleme. And that fragment was Kagura not Amata.
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Old 2012-05-26, 08:20   Link #240
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Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
^^ the merging would be utter crap. But thankfully the detachment wing event dicards it. And regarding at genesis the whole stuff about Mikono's vague feelings for Amata has nothing to do with his being an incomplete Appolonius. Sylvia fell for an incomplete Appollonius without a probleme. And that fragment was Kagura not Amata.
That's true I guess, I mean Apollo was incomplete but that didn't stop Sylivia(Who was also incomplete) in Aquarion from falling for the guy. Mikono does come off as a bit greedy since she can't choose either of them, so merging them means she doesn't have to choose or make any sacrifices thus getting to eat her cake and have her ice cream while telling a starving Zessica she can't have any.
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