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Old 2012-05-26, 15:20   Link #381
Linkark07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
A bit off topic, but I think Shinji surviving in UBW is the most BS thing in the entire game. Going by what he had learned he had done in the past to Salkura, and how much damage he had done in UBW, going as far as possibly raping another student and slandering her reputation, using Rider to harm the student body (and even causing some to suffer some lasting mental effects) and then the stuff after getting Gil ... yeah
Yeah, I agree with you but I think Nasu allowed him to live because he wanted to make him change after what happened to him. Well, at least he got what he deserved in Fate and HF.
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:24   Link #382
mAc Chaos
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I always wanted to see Shinji reform and end up on a team with Shirou.
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:51   Link #383
Haak
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Even if he did reform, it's not like he'd be particularly useful except perhaps as a meatshield...
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:53   Link #384
mAc Chaos
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It would just be neat seeing how everybody would interact.
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Old 2012-05-26, 19:50   Link #385
Thess
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Puts the ''Shinji Uses Gilgamesh to kill Zouken'' and ''Sakura spending most of her time in the hospital'' in UBW in a entirely different light
First one is clear fanwank. You can't kill Zouken, unless you kill Sakura. Since you know, he's in her heart.

It took Kotomine to spend all his command spells (which equals a miracle each) to clear Sakura of her worms except the Crest of Worms. Had there be a chance, Rin would have taken it, you know? She wanted to help her sister, but she could only see a dead end ahead. Furthermore, neither Rin or Shirou do anything in the end. It was Sakura herself who took care of the problem after acquiring a godly hax that allowed her to survive GoB spam and decapitation.

Also they are going to London...
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Old 2012-05-26, 20:04   Link #386
mAc Chaos
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Well, Gilgamesh does stomp on the worms in the basement or whatever.

So he could have just used Gilgamesh to pummel Zouken and make him weak. He clearly seems to be weak and need time to recuperate when his body is destroyed. It just wouldn't have helped Sakura.
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Old 2012-05-26, 21:58   Link #387
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Heck so it was a Matou & Kotomine combo that grabbed Irisviel? I never would have guessed that. But he helped Shirou in HF so there is precedent. I wonder who got the intel on Emiya's base though.

Kotomine is so odd and interesting. He has an awfully complex way of enjoying people's suffering. If it can be called enjoyment.

And poor Kariya's completely lost it. Guess we got our answer on how Aoi dies! Now I'm just wondering how Rin grew up to be so well-adjusted.
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:12   Link #388
zRyuu
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I wonder who got the intel on Emiya's base though.
Watch the episode where Tokiomi dies, 17 I think. Kirei got that info.
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:13   Link #389
Vicious108
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After episode 21, I gotta go back to something I predicted shortly after Fate/Zero started airing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
As for the Matous, there's one of them we're not shown to be safe and sound in F/SN from what I remember - Matou Byakuya, Shinji's father. I can't remember if he's ever stated to be dead or just absent in F/SN, so he might be eligible for Kiritsugu's kidnapping. And if he was killed by him, it'd make Shinji's grudge against Emiya...Shirou all the more fitting.
Yess. Totally called it. Well, it wasn't shown whether Kiritsugu finished Byakuya or not, but still.

Makes me wonder where Shinji's been during this 4th War though. I guess he might be around the mansion and they just haven't shown him. I doubt many would care for a cameo from him, after all.
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:22   Link #390
Thess
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Kotomine is so odd and interesting. He has an awfully complex way of enjoying people's suffering. If it can be called enjoyment.
I heard he was Nasu's favorite male character in FSN, well deserved by the level of complexity he thought for him.
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:36   Link #391
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I heard he was Nasu's favorite male character in FSN, well deserved by the level of complexity he thought for him.
Well, they say a hero is defined by the villains he fights. So you have to put a lot of time and effort into making the villain have depth in order to build the hero.
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:56   Link #392
Ringil
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
First one is clear fanwank. You can't kill Zouken, unless you kill Sakura. Since you know, he's in her heart.

It took Kotomine to spend all his command spells (which equals a miracle each) to clear Sakura of her worms except the Crest of Worms. Had there be a chance, Rin would have taken it, you know? She wanted to help her sister, but she could only see a dead end ahead. Furthermore, neither Rin or Shirou do anything in the end. It was Sakura herself who took care of the problem after acquiring a godly hax that allowed her to survive GoB spam and decapitation.

Also they are going to London...
Uh, Kotomine uses his Magic Crest to try to save Sakura. I don't think that's the same as a Command Spell....
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Old 2012-05-26, 23:05   Link #393
Archer
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Uh, Kotomine uses his Magic Crest to try to save Sakura. I don't think that's the same as a Command Spell....
Kirei wouldn't have any typical Magic Crests. Magic Crests are used by magi to pass down their own magecraft to the next generation. Kirei was born and raised in the Church, which opposes magecraft and wouldn't even think of performing such a practice.

The only thing that Kirei could have that fit the description of a Magic Crest are the Command Seals.
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Old 2012-05-26, 23:12   Link #394
DragoZERO
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Well... our discussion about Aoi not being F/SN has been answered.
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Old 2012-05-27, 00:07   Link #395
willyvereb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringil View Post
Uh, Kotomine uses his Magic Crest to try to save Sakura. I don't think that's the same as a Command Spell....
Like other said, Kirei isn't member of a legitimate magus lineage so there's no way in hell he has a Magic Crest.

What he called as "Magic Crest" is actually his huge stash of Command Spells that Kirei uses like a tool to temporally boost his magic abilities. (One of Nasu's QnAs even confirms it)
Further details will be in the finale of Fate/Zero.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Also they are going to London...
You hit the nail with that one.
Thing is, Rin had 10 whole years to realize Sakura's predicament. She didn't.
How do we expect Shirou and Rin to save her when the duo is busy in London?

The only difference in UBW compared to Fate route is that maybe Shinji is going to be a bit less dickish with her.
Maybe
Perhaps he may had even a change of mind and attempt to save Sakura.
Only to be killed by Zouken with comical ease.


It might be cruel but there's really no salvation for Sakura in any route besides hers.
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Old 2012-05-27, 00:17   Link #396
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Well... our discussion about Aoi not being F/SN has been answered.
Yep. And the streak of dead (cute) female characters in Fate/Zero continues.

Episode 18: Shirley
Episode 19: Natalia
Episode 20: Maiya
Episode 21: Aoi

I imagine episode 22 will finally break it, since it seems a little too soon for Iri to bite the dust still.
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Old 2012-05-27, 01:40   Link #397
Thess
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
It might be cruel but there's really no salvation for Sakura in any route besides hers.
You can only save Saber in Fate (she is going to Avalon there).
You can only save Archer in UBW.
You can only save Sakura in HF.
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Old 2012-05-27, 01:52   Link #398
Archer
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
You can only save Saber in Fate (she is going to Avalon there).
You can only save Archer in UBW.
You can only save Sakura in HF.
One of these is not like the others.
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Old 2012-05-27, 01:55   Link #399
mAc Chaos
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Archer never really gets saved. All the Servants are just copies of the original, so he would never really know any of it happened.

The next time EMIYA gets summoned, he'll be back to square one.
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Old 2012-05-27, 02:59   Link #400
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Linkark07 View Post
Yeah, I agree with you but I think Nasu allowed him to live because he wanted to make him change after what happened to him. Well, at least he got what he deserved in Fate and HF.
Problem is, we never get to see what happens to him. We hear it from Shirou, and well ...

I just find it aggravating that the guy does all these horrible, irredeemable things and then manages to get out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
First one is clear fanwank. You can't kill Zouken, unless you kill Sakura. Since you know, he's in her heart.
What I meant was that he got Gil to destroy Zouken's body. It does explain why he went to the basement in the first place. And why Sakura spends so much time in the hospital (other than her being a false grail and what not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
It took Kotomine to spend all his command spells (which equals a miracle each) to clear Sakura of her worms except the Crest of Worms.
Didn't the narration point out that he still had some (Command Seals) on his hand unused since the last war during the Assassin/Zouken fight? I think that he might have left the Crest of Worms there intentionally, and only removed what was necessary for her condition to stabilize back then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
You can only save Saber in Fate (she is going to Avalon there).
And Illya. And Saber is going to Avalon anyways---actually scratch that, Saber is already in Avalon thanks to the Nasulogic involved with the time travel and the contract she made only taking her from minutes before her death to be summoned in the timeline where she had already died in an became a Heroic Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
You can only save Archer in UBW.
Well, it's a little ... different for Archer, since it's more like his soul was put at ease (He realized he wasn't wrong) but pointed out that he was probably going to forget it on the next summoning. And the ones saved in UBW were Saber (even if Shirou thought he didn't, his fight with Archer (and her seeing herself in EMYIA) and her seeing what the Grail really was made her realise her mistake and give up on it and accept her destiny) and, well, Shinji since he dies in every other route (but lives in this one for some damn reason ...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
You can only save Sakura in HF.
Pretty much ...

... which is pretty strange, but I guess it's because her situation is more trickier to deal with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
Archer never really gets saved. All the Servants are just copies of the original, so he would never really know any of it happened.

The next time EMIYA gets summoned, he'll be back to square one.
Well, he also does imply that Counter Guardians retain some memories that are necessary for their job. It's unlikely that he will still remember the entire war, but he might have some faint images stored in his head.
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