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Old 2005-12-23, 04:31   Link #41
nwa
Kimi ga Nozomu Bishounen
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I'd say Sharktooth's x264 builds are better, but that's just my opinion, you could also 'buy' Nero Recode to encode h264, it's even easier to set up, although there are some differences between the 2 encoders.
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Old 2005-12-23, 04:47   Link #42
Tiberium Wolf
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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I'll be back on 27th or 28th... so I wanted to make a few questions...

- How do we convert h264 to xvid? I haven't tried coz I lacked the codec so mkvtoolnix-0.9.2 and VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_1_All_inclusive wouldn't allow me to extract the video from the mkv. Dunno if they are going to complain... anyway I'll go download the lastest version just in case.

- If it doesn't work a simple full encoding using just those simple steps in vdub then what do I need to do the convertion? I have read some posts behind and just a note I dont like avisynth. CMD lines are not for me...




BTW, I got a athlon xp 2200+768 ram+GF4MX. I know it's good but it's good enough to watch anime and to do my school work. It's not a pc for games. But for christ sake... the h264 files chock on my most of the time. They chock 100% when in full screen. So I want to convert some of the h264 I have to xvid. Yep no other version available.
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Old 2005-12-23, 04:56   Link #43
Mentar
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Tiberium, I'd rather see to it that we fix your playback. With your CPU specifications, you should be able to play back h.264 encodes easily. If you can't, something is broken or misconfigured.

Come to #cccp on irc.chatsociety.net to get some help.
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Old 2005-12-23, 05:21   Link #44
Tiberium Wolf
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I am using the lastest cccp...

Going to try k-lite mega codec pack today.
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Old 2005-12-23, 06:44   Link #45
TheFluff
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Don't. That won't solve it. Let us help you instead... Either post in the playback help forums here, on the CCCP playback help forums on cccp-project.net, or, best of all, join #cccp on irc.chatsociety.net.

BTW, mkvtoolnix 0.9.2 is far too old to let you extract h264. But even using the latest version, you can't extract h264 to anything useful - what you get is the raw bitstream.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2005-12-23, 07:08   Link #46
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
Don't. That won't solve it. Let us help you instead... Either post in the playback help forums here, on the CCCP playback help forums on cccp-project.net, or, best of all, join #cccp on irc.chatsociety.net.

BTW, mkvtoolnix 0.9.2 is far too old to let you extract h264. But even using the latest version, you can't extract h264 to anything useful - what you get is the raw bitstream.
Oh

I'll go over there next week... now xmas at home with no net.
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Old 2005-12-23, 07:20   Link #47
Eeknay
Gendo died for your sins.
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Yeah, something is wrong with your setup. I can play h264 back on this old XP2000/256MB ram/GF2 easily.
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Old 2005-12-23, 20:02   Link #48
DryFire
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Hmm it looks like the Xvid devs (mainly skal?) are going to make release Xvid AVC sometime after christmas.
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Old 2005-12-23, 20:07   Link #49
TheFluff
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O___o
I DEMAND SAUCE! LINK KTHX.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2005-12-23, 20:11   Link #50
DryFire
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104513
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Old 2005-12-24, 21:48   Link #51
subcool
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@Tiberium Wolf:
or just try installing ffdshow & Haali's splitter manually
hell, try VLC works for (most) h.264 encodes by fansub groups.
(cccp pimps, dont start bitching now "ZOMG vlc no good softsubs!" cause i said _MOST_ :P )

[off topic]
@TheFluff:
saying "sauce" makes you look (cause its typed ) even more dumb... dont turn these forums into another 4chan -_-;
even if the post was meant sarcastic or w/e...
[/off topic]
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Old 2005-12-24, 23:31   Link #52
DryFire
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@ Subcool I don't see a reason for personal jabs/comments. It's not helping the cause of keeping this thread from becoming another 4chan. I don't know if you two have personal issues or whatnot but there's a pm system/irc for that.
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Old 2005-12-25, 10:28   Link #53
TheFluff
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(offtopic) I thought it was fairly obvious that the entire post was a parody of a 4chan comment/random IRC newb style. It WAS very exaggerated, and that was the point. It was meant as a stupid joke. I don't care very much if you like it or not (mostly since I rate your opinion very, very low due to past offences), and I have a hard time seeing how it's related to this thread.

On topic: Apparently XviD AVC started off as a decoder. If it's good, it might finally kill the "ZOMG I HATE FFDSHOW SO LET'S NOT USE H.264 KTHX" argument... The encoder doesn't seem as good as x264 (yet?), however.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read

Last edited by TheFluff; 2005-12-25 at 10:38.
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Old 2005-12-25, 13:06   Link #54
Linkthe1st
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---h.264---
Seriously I don't mind this codec since I have a good PC and it gives me no problems. However looking at it from a distribution perspective it's not a good choice after all not everyone who watches anime has a fast PC that can run the CPU intensive coding it uses. My personal complaint is that I can't use the DivX player to watch files using this codec since FFD show doesn't work with it. Don't get me wrong using the windows media player 2 (version 6.4) isn't bad (I used to use it only) it's quick to respond simple and effective but it doesn't have any controls you can use while in full screen mode. I would personally stay away from this codec for personal reason and distribution reasons.

---MKV---
I can understand This containers advantages but I can not understand why anyone would want to use it at all. The cons out weight the pros here. My main complaint is that I have to use Windows Media Player 10 which I don't like at all. Cripe WMP10 has no easy access controls and the space bar dose not play and pause the movie not to mention those annoying top and bottom borders that take oh so long to disappear and cover subs in the process of being sluggish. Also MKV is not very size friendly I have Comic Party Revolution (5-13) on my HDD and its sucking up 2.28g because of the extreme file size the MKVs generate (I’m waiting for someone to release AVI copies of the episodes). I find MKV to be the least desirable form of encoding for any video file.

---XviD---
This is a codec to end all codecs it's supported by the basic free DivX bundle and only at the cost of a slightly darker tone in the video it compresses large moves into a manageable size of under 700mb usually. It plays in all media players and has no problem decoding on slower machines. This is the perfect codec to meet desires distribution and personal, it's small and clean! Exactly what you want in a file compression right?

---DivX—
It’s a good codec but the compression is bad though the quality is good and clean. Compatible with all media players I have ever used with no problem. Problem is that annoying logo in the corner all the time. It can’t compete with the XviD codec ever because of being the same with better compression and it plays if you can play DivX. On a side note has anyone noticed that XviD is backwards for DivX? Like sisters but the older one is less practical in terms of distribution.


I don't think that anything is better than XviD but that's my opinion and judgment based on stats I have seen and compression rates I have worked with. Feel free to tell me if I’m wrong regardless of what I have said.

Last edited by Linkthe1st; 2005-12-25 at 22:59.
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Old 2005-12-25, 13:42   Link #55
Sylf
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Next time, you should do a better homework than you did. You just made about 20 people who read that post want to jump on top of you, strangle you, and scream "MKV IS NOT A CODEC, it's a container, for 100,000,000th time!" The particular example you posted, those people can easily guess from the filename "Comic_Party_Revolution_05v3_[yu][WMV9-4C0B63F8].mkv" that it's WMV9 encoded. That video was simply put inside of MKV container. Yes, container - just like AVI and MP4 and ASF. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the file size. It was the encoder's choice to make it so big.

Also, people in here will show you how to make 1GHz PC play back 99.8% of the h.264 encoded fansubs currently being released. 1GHz isn't fast at all for today's standard. "It requires too much CPU power" argument is quickly getting old. And with fast media players such as Media Player Classic (Not WMP6.4) and ZoomPlayer, that klunky media player argument isn't very convincing either.
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Old 2005-12-25, 14:36   Link #56
Linkthe1st
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ok so i said some things that are wrong MKV is not a codec it is a container but the MKV file size is still larger than a typical AVI i find. Aside from that i stand by the fact that ffdshow refuses to work with many video players and usually activates when using MKVs.

Also maybe i'm thinking to main stream for my own good but i understand and follow the general rule that the easier something is to use the more appealing it is to use and return to. So if you have to do something special for your PC to get it to run a file properly, some people will rather just look for another simpler file format. Staying with the easy to use idea, DLing another player is a little coumbersome and the classic WMP (i meant WMP2 vesion 6.4 my mistake i fixed it now) like i said has no on screen controls in full screen.

heck i don't care if you think i'm wrong i don't care if you like MKV or h.264 better i'm just saying that XviD is the easiest thing to use with the smallest work for everyone if you wnat to hunt for codecs or what you think are better options go on i do that myself. However like i said easy and simple for all is usually the bet way to go. but like i said before myabe i'm thinking to mainstream for my own good since this is not mainstream.
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Old 2005-12-25, 14:44   Link #57
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf
Also, people in here will show you how to make 1GHz PC play back 99.8% of the h.264 encoded fansubs currently being released. 1GHz isn't fast at all for today's standard. "It requires too much CPU power" argument is quickly getting old. And with fast media players such as Media Player Classic (Not WMP6.4) and ZoomPlayer, that klunky media player argument isn't very convincing either.
Also, if you use VLC you can get that CPU usage to almost a minimum. I was checking Froth-Bite's Itsudatte My Santa MP4, encoded with x264 and AAC audio, CPU usage on different players and my poor 2500 AMD Barton, 256 RAM, slow HDD was running VLC (0.8.2 build) playing it with 5% to 26% of CPU power while Winamp was using a bit more (25-40%), MPC even higher (30-60%) and MPC is one of the fastest players out there.
What I'm saying is that there are ways for slower PCs to play these files without much problems, like turning off as many programs running in the background as possible (yes, even your firewall, antivirus software). Perhaps a disconnect from the internet will do the trick too for the time you'll spend watching your anime. Of course, using a fast player is the key here.
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Old 2005-12-25, 16:29   Link #58
Eeknay
Gendo died for your sins.
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
ok so i said some things that are wrong MKV is not a codec it is a container but the MKV file size is still larger than a typical AVI i find. Aside from that i stand by the fact that ffdshow refuses to work with many video players and usually activates when using MKVs.

Also maybe i'm thinking to main stream for my own good but i understand and follow the general rule that the easier something is to use the more appealing it is to use and return to. So if you have to do something special for your PC to get it to run a file properly, some people will rather just look for another simpler file format. Staying with the easy to use idea, DLing another player is a little coumbersome and the classic WMP (i meant WMP2 vesion 6.4 my mistake i fixed it now) like i said has no on screen controls in full screen.

heck i don't care if you think i'm wrong i don't care if you like MKV or h.264 better i'm just saying that XviD is the easiest thing to use with the smallest work for everyone if you wnat to hunt for codecs or what you think are better options go on i do that myself. However like i said easy and simple for all is usually the bet way to go. but like i said before myabe i'm thinking to mainstream for my own good since this is not mainstream.
My question is this; would your head explode if Xvid was used in an MKV container (which happens a lot, by the way)?

Taking bets.
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Old 2005-12-25, 18:42   Link #59
TheFluff
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/me looks at Linkthe1st's location... "They have a cave troll!"
Seriously, that post is about 95% wrong, and the 5% that aren't are mostly very badly expressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
My personal complaint is that I can't use the DivX player to watch files using this codec since FFD show doesn't work with it.
Guess what, DivX player is intended for... DivX! It doesn't play ANYTHING else. Technically it doesn't play XviD either, it just happens to be so that the XviD implementation of the MPEG4 ASP specs is so close to the DivX one that it mostly works in practice. DivX has other quirks, however, like the decoder not being compatible with older versions of itself, and there's lots of other assorted bugs and amusing things in it. Just don't use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
This codec I can understand it's advantages but I can not understand why anyone would want to use it at all. The cons out weight the pros here. My main complaint is that I have to use Windows Media Player 10 which I don't like at all.
Congratulations, you just set yourself up as one of the easiest flame targets I've seen in months. Your lack of knowledge is just amazing...
1. MKV is not a codec, just a container. The file size and the codec is up to the encoder. Generally, people who puts their stuff in MKV are fond of quality and lots of extras, hence the filesize gets bigger.
2. MKV has about 236347137 advantages over AVI. Anamorphic encoding, VFR, supports modern codecs (like H.264 (not supported in AVI, except by evil hacks), Ogg Vorbis, AAC etc. etc.), lots of different softsub possibilities, linked files, chapters... the list goes on for an eternity.
3. You can use any DirectShow player for MKV. Your forced use of WMP10 (which just plain sucks, BTW) is only caused by your incompetence. WMP 6.4 works as well. Personally I like Zoom Player and Media Player Classic the best, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
This is a codec to end all codecs it's supported by the basic free DivX bundle and only at the cost of a slightly darker tone in the video it compresses large moves into a manageable size of under 700mb usually.
I've got some news for you: THE OUTPUT SIZE IS CHOSEN BY THE PERSON WHO ENCODES THE FILE, NOT THE CODEC. I can make an anime ep 70 MB large with XviD if I wanted to, but it wouldn't look good (you could maybe make out a character there among all the blocks... you wouldn't hear much, either). I could also go the other way and make it 700 MB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
It’s a good codec but the compression is bad though the quality is good and clean. Compatible with all media players I have ever used with no problem. Problem is that annoying logo in the corner all the time. It can’t compete with the XviD codec ever because of being the same with better compression and it plays if you can play DivX.
Read the above paragraph. Although it's true, DivX generally isn't as good as XviD. But I got some more news for you: that logo is a decoder "feature". You can easily turn if off by ticking a checkbox in the settings. Or just decode DivX with ffdshow or XviD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
On a side note has anyone noticed that XviD is backwards for DivX?
HE HAS SHOWN US THE LIGHT! Oh, wait, he's just three or four years late with it. Go figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeknay
My question is this; would your head explode if Xvid was used in an MKV container (which happens a lot, by the way)?

Taking bets.
I bet two episodes of Shakugan no Shana that it would.


Now on to something completely different - namely the relative suckage of the evil player known as VLC. LytHka is, as we've seen many times before, talking in his sleep or something. I cannot verify this much lower CPU usage in any way. I did some experiments, comparing VLC 0.8.4a against ffdshow-20051208-gcc4.0.2-sse-x264.nl/Haali 2005-11-25.2/VSFilter 2.37 plus either Zoom Player 4.51 standard or MPC 6.4.8.7. The results:
Spoiler for the results of the test:

Note: This test is in NO WAY scientific. I've just taken screenshots of the task manager while playing the stuff. The "CPU usage" things are kind of "average" values - I've tried to choose a value that is some kind of median. My impression by looking at the graphs and the CPU usage meter is that VLC jumps around more. The spikes are higher than Zoom's or MPC's, but on the other hand the valleys are deeper, too. The average usage seems about the same for all the players. I see NO evidence whatsoever for VLC nor any other player being faster. However, for some weird reason ZP seems more heavily single-threaded. I have no idea why, so I'm writing it off as randomness for now.

Test clips used were F-B's Mahoraba 12 (the OP) and ZX's Starship Operators 04 (the OP here too - one of the most CPU-intensive DVD-resolution clips I have). SSO04 has softsubs, but there are no lines on screen during the OP. VSfilter is thus being loaded but not used. The test CPU was my Athlon X2 3800+.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read

Last edited by TheFluff; 2005-12-25 at 19:16.
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Old 2005-12-25, 23:15   Link #60
Linkthe1st
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fluff chill i'm not lookin for a flame war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkthe1st
heck i don't care if you think i'm wrong i don't care if you like MKV or h.264 better i'm just saying that XviD is the easiest thing to use with the smallest work for everyone. If you wnat to hunt for codecs or what you think are better options go on i do that myself. However like i said easy and simple for all is usually the bet way to go. but like i said before myabe i'm thinking to mainstream for my own good since this is not mainstream.
simplicity is the base of a lot of stuff and i think even though this is the fan community which proabbly knows more overall it's still no exception.

I'll drop it i don't care to debate anyting so i guess you could say you won.
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