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Old 2012-05-26, 14:00   Link #161
kasimmorathi
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Esdes actions go beyond what is merely necessary; demonstrated when she goes into the torture chamber to prolong the suffering of others. If she were just a general that killed for the sake of her nation then I could empathize with her more. However, based upon her conversation with the Prime Minister it seems that there may be something going on with her that could provide some sort of redemption. Don't know yet! Will have to see.
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:16   Link #162
XFire
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Neh I think Esdese can be considered evil, it's not about whose side your on, it's about the fact she enjoys killing people, goes out of her way to torture them and the only reason she's in the army doing that shit is because she enjoys doing it (like the prime minister said she has no other motivations). It's quite difficult to get much worse than that, whether she see's the error of her ways is something else entirely, but it's pretty difficult to justify her actions. The heroes aren't comparable to her since they're aware and even have misgrievings about their actions, and don't simply enjoy the act of killing.
So that Leone girl is "evil" then? Because she killed those people because "she didn't like them" and it's pretty obvious she enjoys what she does.
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Old 2012-05-26, 17:00   Link #163
Iron Maw
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In her case, Leone only enjoys crushing those do wrong to others in the first place. The people she killed before joining Night Raid were abusing children from the slums for sport.
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Old 2012-05-26, 17:00   Link #164
Kleeyook
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
So that Leone girl is "evil" then? Because she killed those people because "she didn't like them" and it's pretty obvious she enjoys what she does.
The people she killed are terrible people though. Like the high class people who kill people as sports, gangsters who kidnap or deceive girls to become prostitutes using drug to make them lose their mind etc. not just some thugs who pick a fight with you or seemingly innocent people who you just dislike...
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Old 2012-05-26, 17:18   Link #165
ReaperxKingx
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Esdes as in now appear evil, though her back story isn't explored yet. She enjoy killing, there is no way she was like that all her life. So maybe she had a traumatic experience. A similar story is Saddam Hussein, nevertheless he was evil, his back story gives us a reason why he was so mess up in the head. He was abuse by his step father ever since he was 3 until he ran away at age 10, so who knows maybe Esdes had a experience like that.

Spoiler for Question:
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Old 2012-05-26, 22:46   Link #166
Dragonkid11
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After reading the first 11 chapter of this manga...well

I'm surprised that there is a manga that managed to rival freaking Berserk in term of grim darkness,yet still contain comedy,fanservice and other stuff a shounen manga has
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Old 2012-05-26, 23:10   Link #167
NeutralZero
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Don't think the person Leone mentioned and him are the same...
If we are to base her comments in ch 8...
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Old 2012-05-26, 23:39   Link #168
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
After reading the first 11 chapter of this manga...well

I'm surprised that there is a manga that managed to rival freaking Berserk in term of grim darkness,yet still contain comedy,fanservice and other stuff a shounen manga has
Berserk has comedy and fanservice too, just limited.
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Old 2012-05-26, 23:51   Link #169
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Berserk has comedy and fanservice too, just limited.
Lol Berserk had to bring the in fairy just because it was getting so grim and dark.

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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
So that Leone girl is "evil" then? Because she killed those people because "she didn't like them" and it's pretty obvious she enjoys what she does.
She's morally dodgy like all paid assassin's are. But what she has was more a sense of satisfaction from hatred, rather enjoying killing people simply because she enjoyed doing it as well as torturing them, (regardless which type of people).

Regardless of whether you consider her evil or not according to your own personal morality esdes is an entire tier below that.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2012-05-27 at 00:01.
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Old 2012-05-27, 00:03   Link #170
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Lol Berserk had to bring the in fairy just because it was getting so grim and dark.
Not to mention the Witch Loli.

Honestly, Berserk is fairly softer now compare to it's older days.
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Old 2012-05-27, 01:09   Link #171
Calca
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Esdes as in now appear evil, though her back story isn't explored yet. She enjoy killing, there is no way she was like that all her life. So maybe she had a traumatic experience. A similar story is Saddam Hussein, nevertheless he was evil, his back story gives us a reason why he was so mess up in the head. He was abuse by his step father ever since he was 3 until he ran away at age 10, so who knows maybe Esdes had a experience like that.

Spoiler for Question:
It's not that she enjoys killing, its that she's a sadist and enjoys putting people through incredible amounts of pain.

Also trying to rationalize why people are the way people are due to a traumatic childhood is a bit over played. Did Kim Jong Il have a traumatic childhood? DId Gaddafi? It's more like there are simply some people who use their authority to hurt others.

Though if she truly is a love interest, they probably will give a back story to rationalize it in order to make the reader accept her.
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Old 2012-05-27, 01:29   Link #172
NeutralZero
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Those two if we are to got with no traumatic childhood...
We must consider the environment they were raised and the parents that raised them...
Also want a flash back chapter...
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Old 2012-05-27, 02:02   Link #173
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Those two if we are to got with no traumatic childhood...
We must consider the environment they were raised and the parents that raised them...
Also want a flash back chapter...
TBF not everyone needs a sob story flashback chapter to make the reader ok with their actions, sometimes people have perfectly normal backgrounds while turning out to be serial killers.

Really there's little to do that could justify the torturing of hundreds of thousands of people needlessly. Killing sure, she was a general and being a general means a lot of lives will be lost under her watch but needlessly torturing them and becoming a general in order to so, will mean she'll always look particularily bad. Considering she's the strongest person in the country it becomes even more suspect.

The author would have to go to quite contrived levels to even resonably make her current outlook, seem not so bad.
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Old 2012-05-27, 02:29   Link #174
Kleeyook
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Well, Hitler is someone who wouldn't kill people with his own hands, he let his subordinates did the job. And at least 20M people died because of him. But hey, he didn't kill them himself. His early life seems normal to me compared to fictional characters in popular media. He loves his family and his dog too, and they love him back.

Talking about morality when it concerns tyrants is just stupid. We don't fucking need flashback as to why horrible people became who they are. That's just Freudian excuse! People who live a perfectly normal life with loving family can become a ruthless monster to people they dislike without any rational trauma!

I think Esdese deserves death as punishment or some kind of afterlife retribution (hell) for what she did. While it's true that nature favors those stronger than the weaker and the strong always eat the weak, torturing people for pleasure is what other animals don't do (except maybe dolphin and monkey, animals smart enough).
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Old 2012-05-27, 04:50   Link #175
runset
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This is very interesting. Never i read manga that pair between protagonist and the antagonist. Well there is so many "dead flag" in this manga. For personal opinion, I want the author to make the tatsumi and esdese couple (pls don't kill esdese). This type of story is what makes this manga interesting, we don't know what will happen next and i too cannot predict the storyline. If the author decide to make tatsumi and esdese couple, we will be presented with an original story that any other mangas doesn't have. Interesting isn't it.
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Old 2012-05-27, 06:26   Link #176
Kleeyook
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I think that Tatsumi and Akame are gonna be couple. Just take a look at the series' name and you'll find that no matter what, Akame will be the main girl and the winner. That's why I dislike any series with harem theme and one of the heroine's name is the title like Hidan no Aria, Suzuka, Tayutama, ZnT (everyone knows who Zero refers to) etc.

Still, it's been ages already that we last saw Tatsumi interacts with Akame. He did the same to most of his comrades. Hell, I think Leona even got more screen time than Akame.
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Old 2012-05-27, 06:38   Link #177
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
Well, Hitler is someone who wouldn't kill people with his own hands, he let his subordinates did the job. And at least 20M people died because of him. But hey, he didn't kill them himself. His early life seems normal to me compared to fictional characters in popular media. He loves his family and his dog too, and they love him back.

Talking about morality when it concerns tyrants is just stupid. We don't fucking need flashback as to why horrible people became who they are. That's just Freudian excuse! People who live a perfectly normal life with loving family can become a ruthless monster to people they dislike without any rational trauma!

I think Esdese deserves death as punishment or some kind of afterlife retribution (hell) for what she did. While it's true that nature favors those stronger than the weaker and the strong always eat the weak, torturing people for pleasure is what other animals don't do (except maybe dolphin and monkey, animals smart enough).
Yeah she probably deserves a punishment, and I doubt many people would accept the MC being in love and protecting her so it'd likely be a me against the world situation.
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Old 2012-05-27, 07:34   Link #178
NeutralZero
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Unless they (Revolution army) use the same tactics Gai of GC used...
Use Tatsumi (Inori) seduce Esdes (Shuu) and join in their ranks
They may not like her but the potential battle strength added by the empire's strongest can't be overlook...
If by case she is to die, she should die a befitting second last boss or mid boss death... with a bang!
Not with Tatsumi but against Akame or the very least the boss of nightraid (boss x boss fight)
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Old 2012-05-27, 07:37   Link #179
XFire
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Yeah she probably deserves a punishment, and I doubt many people would accept the MC being in love and protecting her so it'd likely be a me against the world situation.
Problem here is that Esdes could beat the world without any particular problem...
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Old 2012-05-27, 08:00   Link #180
Kleeyook
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The thing is that if the PM is killed, most of the mess would be resolved and only Esdese is left.

Killing the PM is the top priority of the whole revolutionary army (Night Raid included) anyway. That guy alone is responsible for most of the horrible things people suffer.
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