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Old 2012-05-26, 15:03   Link #9141
Wolfenstein
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He is just a normal after all. Also, wouldn't Savate count as his style? His altered God Mode might count as well, but that seemed more like DBZ's unlock of the inner potential than a skill or style.
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Old 2012-05-26, 16:22   Link #9142
Kaisos Erranon
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*snip*
Mars Mode seems to be the result of swapping Parasite Seeing via Real Eater, but we're specifically not being told about that and I think we'll see why soon.
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Old 2012-05-26, 18:40   Link #9143
Sol Falling
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I think the difference is that while a Skill cannot be learned under normal circumstances (only through being passed on via another Skill, or copied via something like The End), Styles can be learned by anyone, provided that they're competent enough to do so. Styles, then, are akin to martial arts.
Err, you could maybe apply that to things like Namanie's Inkendo Mugenbai or Seven Swords style but I don't really see how things like bisecting a helicopter or controlling Kanji are things that could be "learned by anyone".
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Old 2012-05-26, 18:52   Link #9144
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Those are more attributes of super-strenght rather than a technique to cut steel when referring to Namanie. Humans in Medaka Box aren't exactly normal.

And It's too soon to tell with Sui's Kanji style, but apparently anyone who has a good knowledge on language can use it, the combinations are rather complex and there are 2000+ Kanji's.
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Old 2012-05-26, 19:26   Link #9145
Sol Falling
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Those are more attributes of super-strenght rather than a technique to cut steel when referring to Namanie. Humans in Medaka Box aren't exactly normal.

And It's too soon to tell with Sui's Kanji style, but apparently anyone who has a good knowledge on language can use it, the combinations are rather complex and there are 2000+ Kanji's.
No, the 2136 kanjis which Kanaino spoke of refers only to the standard Jouyou kanji which are taught from elementary to high school. 2136 kanji is a basic literacy level which every Japanese student achieves by age 18. The complete level 1 unicode encoding set used for modern Japanese includes 3000+ kanji, and the level 2 encoding set which includes older/more obscure kanji for reference or historical purposes includes a further 3000 kanji still.

The combinations used within chapter 147 were not complex at all, I've only studied up to 300 kanji and I was already familiar with all of those characters.

Regarding "anybody being able to use it", I'm assuming you're basing this on the fact that Naze was able to counter Kanaino's combinations. The actual fact is that Naze did nothing herself resembling Kanaino's kanji manifestations, she merely included or altered elements which invalidated Kanaino's specific strategies. For example, the kanji for "crush" 砕 is made from the components for "stone" 石, "nine" 九, and "ten" 十. Thus by throwing nineteen ("nine" + "ten") stones, Kanaino was able to "crush" Naze's armour. However, by holding one of Kanaino's earlier stones in her hand, Naze made Kanaino's 19 stones into 20 (二十), thus invalidating Kanaino's combination of components to make up the kanji "crush". However, there is zero evidence at all that Naze herself can actually create the effects of kanji from the components like Kanaino can. The only thing which Naze achieved was analysing Kanaino's ability and predicting her strategies so that she could ruin the effects Kanaino planned on creating.
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Old 2012-05-26, 20:13   Link #9146
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Call me crazy but making such complex combinations in split seconds in combat would require intense training and preparation. Styles are like martial arts, there's training to be done. There's nothing to assume more than that, currently.

Attributing Sui's ability as a style, which she compared to Namanie's, it's strange to assume such is something no one can learn. It's not unique at all, Naze even knew about it.

Since Naze is brilliant, she could probably easily learn such with proper training, as I bet she could learn Namanie's and Kamone's, if she was taught. Though if she'd ever reach the rank of a master, that is hard to guess.
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Old 2012-05-26, 20:44   Link #9147
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if consider styles as martial arts then it make sense for the suitors since one main job of Branch families are to guard the main family.
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Old 2012-05-27, 00:45   Link #9148
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
However, there is zero evidence at all that Naze herself can actually create the effects of kanji from the components like Kanaino can.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with Kanaino so much as it has to do with how fucking insane the world in Medaka Box is. Physical laws ceased to mean anything back in Chapter 55.
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Old 2012-05-27, 02:30   Link #9149
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You know, I'd imagine that Kikira/Naze is in truth almost every bit as brilliant and broken as Medaka. And in some aspects, she SURPASSES Medaka, if that is even possible.

The problem is, because both of them are so superior to everyone, they ended up suffering from an existential crisis very early on in their life- probably in toddlerhood.

Medaka found an answer in Zenkinchi's suggestion.

Kikira found no similar answer, and therefore only found purpose in suffering. And from that point on, both Kikira and Medaka's development branched off radically.

One wonders how much more different would Medaka Box (especially in the earlier chapters) had been if Kikira/Naze in her awesomeness occupied Medaka's chair instead.

I am reminded by all those haters who really, really dislike Early Medaka to be that suish and saintly. But really, had Medaka not taken that route, odds are, her personality would have been something closer to a cross between Solo lone wolf Medaka, Medaka II, her sister's worldview and the eccentricities and amorality of the Suitors amplified.

Ah well. Medaka the villain is more epic than Medaka the hero.

Ironically, Naze/Kikira the anti-hero is even more compelling than Naze the villain.

I really wonder whether the Jet Black Arc is deliberately out to highlight the intrinsic and subtle differences between Medaka and Kikira. The older sister seems to be an even more fearsome opponent than Medaka.

I wonder whether The End can also copy those styles. If it can copy "natures"....then Styles probably can also be imitated.

So, we seem to have six classes of powers right now.

Abnormality Skill - Pluses
Abnormality Skill - Minues
Abnormality Skill - Zeros
Not Equals
Natures
Styles....

One wonders whether Nisio plans on drawing the line, or whether he is deliberately keeping this ambiguous.
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Old 2012-05-27, 02:48   Link #9150
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^ To be fair, a lot of fans cannot really relate to Medaka for the a forementioned reasons above. Medaka is superior to everyone that it makes you wonder if she even has anything close to a weakness. Even Ajimu is somewhat more interesting than Medaka and she arguably more broken than she is, I guess it is probably a reference to how shonen heroes usually end up more powerful than the rest of the cast.
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Old 2012-05-27, 03:57   Link #9151
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^ To be fair, a lot of fans cannot really relate to Medaka for the a forementioned reasons above. Medaka is superior to everyone that it makes you wonder if she even has anything close to a weakness. Even Ajimu is somewhat more interesting than Medaka and she arguably more broken than she is, I guess it is probably a reference to how shonen heroes usually end up more powerful than the rest of the cast.
Well, The End is the most amazing blessing. And so much a strength and blessing that it loops back to a Curse, since it basically removes all challenge and worthwhile purpose from life.

Ajimu's fascinating because of her constant breaking of the Fourth Wall, and by being an ambiguous character in terms of alignment. I'd imagine Middle-School Ajimu would have been much like Medaka in terms of how interesting she is But even she despairs of life.

No, the most interesting part of Medaka is her existential crisis. What purpose does a perfect man or woman have, when anything can be instantly achieved. In a way, Kikira shares the same problem too- but unlike Medaka, she never had a real purpose in life- and despaired of it so much she gave up everything, blaming it for the lack of purpose. Indeed, had Medaka not met Zenkinchi, then Kikira's worldview would have been much more compelling.

But there's a very good reason why no-one wants to see Medaka using a minus.
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Old 2012-05-27, 04:56   Link #9152
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I remember being said that in mentality even his aniki and ane-ue were inferior to her when they showed us a picture of Medaka already dressed and Maguro and Naze practically in diapers.

Naze doesnt have such a crisis as Medaka, what she does suffer is by taking her ideal to an extreme and almost losing her best friend in the process. She encountered her form of life and she hasnt been led astray of the path she marked for herself.
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Old 2012-05-27, 08:07   Link #9153
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'm not sure that has anything to do with Kanaino so much as it has to do with how fucking insane the world in Medaka Box is. Physical laws ceased to mean anything back in Chapter 55.
Frankly I lost my hope when Munakata can hide a literal arsenal inside a school uniform.

In a corner, physics weeps~

I also agree Kujira is awesome incarnate. And hey, she did get some more development since she's not wearing her mask. We just haven't seen it yet.
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Old 2012-05-27, 12:30   Link #9154
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^ The series pretty much through out real world physics out of the window before the genre shift. Then again, we are looking at the wrong place for physics or any physical science anyway.

Quote:
No, the most interesting part of Medaka is her existential crisis. What purpose does a perfect man or woman have, when anything can be instantly achieved. In a way, Kikira shares the same problem too- but unlike Medaka, she never had a real purpose in life- and despaired of it so much she gave up everything, blaming it for the lack of purpose. Indeed, had Medaka not met Zenkinchi, then Kikira's worldview would have been much more compelling.
I don't think so, Naze doesn't share in the same 'crisis' as Medaka does. While they do suffer from similar issues, Medaka was basically the one who was trying to find her place in the world. Medaka just seems so perfect compared to everyone that she had to try not to look down on anyone or no one can relate to her. Medaka is the Superman of her universe, there isn't anyone who relate or even get close to her without envious of her abilities and prowess.
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:18   Link #9155
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You know, I was just thinking, what if there was a twist in that Nienami was actually the strongest of the six suitors, which gets revealed after they defeat 'the last suitor'?
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Old 2012-05-27, 23:48   Link #9156
Kaisos Erranon
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You know, I was just thinking, what if there was a twist in that Nienami was actually the strongest of the six suitors, which gets revealed after they defeat 'the last suitor'?
That, or someone who is aware of Devil Style is manipulating the entire situation.
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:25   Link #9157
summers
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This has nothing to do with the recent arc but who here thinks Kumagawa has another minus? Or that his minus is not Bookmaker and just 1 application of it. Looking at all the other Minus it seems strange that he has to stab somebody with a weapon for it to work. Since we were told that he imposes the image of screws on people and we saw him try to make a sword that kill magical beasts, that plus him recreating all fiction; his base minus could be imposing his delusions on reality. That and its in his wiki.

I think we are going to see a fight with Kumagawa getting his ass kicked as usual but then we find out it was just the opponents delusion it works as others imagine their victories when they do something.

we know the screws are imaginary but we see them have lasting effects on environment. So I say he even deludes inanimate objects. Sounds crazy but minus are supposed to be.
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Old 2012-05-29, 23:46   Link #9158
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Sure could had fooled me, Kumagawa has screws and loves screwing people over. Seriously, perhaps he has the same power as Itachi to make illusions beocme reality and reality illusions. Bookmaker is just another way tro mess with foes.
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Old 2012-05-30, 02:36   Link #9159
Kaisos Erranon
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My theory has always been that the normal screws (not the Bookmaker ones) are a Plus he somehow got ahold of, not a Minus.

Compare the heads of his normal screws to the heads of the Bookmaker screws and you'll see what I'm getting at.
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Old 2012-05-30, 03:00   Link #9160
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Not everything needs to have an explanation in this kind of manga...
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