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Old 2012-05-29, 01:34   Link #8481
Qilin
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Aren't spirit mages limited to the strength of their summons?
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Old 2012-05-29, 01:55   Link #8482
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Aren't spirit mages limited to the strength of their summons?
The strength of a mage's summons depends on the strength of the mage.
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Old 2012-05-29, 04:56   Link #8483
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
The strength of a mage's summons depends on the strength of the mage.
No, the strength of the summons is always the same. The amount of time they stay summoned and the amount of spirits that can be summoned at the same time (or in a given period of time) is what depends on the summoner's stamina and skill.
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Old 2012-05-29, 05:45   Link #8484
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Lucy was said to have doubled her magic power by having Gemini turn into her, so doesn't that mean the spirit's power is proportional to its summoner's?
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Old 2012-05-29, 05:55   Link #8485
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Lucy was said to have doubled her magic power by having Gemini turn into her, so doesn't that mean the spirit's power is proportional to its summoner's?
You said it yourself, her power doubled when Gemini turned into her (or rather, since they were both using the same spell the spell "cost" was halved for each). When Gemini turns into someone they are an exact copy, down to their power level. Had Gemini turned into someone stronger than Lucy (like Erza for example) it would be as strong as that person.
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Old 2012-05-29, 07:44   Link #8486
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There is intense foreshadowing that Lucy is going to be in something pretty deep. Wished we knew what, but where is the fun if they spilled the beans right away.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:10   Link #8487
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so is the manga nearing its end now that Lucy is very close to getting all 12 zodiac keys? (plus the 13th mysterious key) I sure hope not!
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:16   Link #8488
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so is the manga nearing its end now that Lucy is very close to getting all 12 zodiac keys? (plus the 13th mysterious key) I sure hope not!
If Lucy was the only Main Character and her goal in life was get the 12 keys then yes...but that isn't the case here innit?
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Old 2012-05-29, 11:55   Link #8489
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No Lucy hasn't faced off against some pretty good Spirit Mages Angel couldn't beat anyone in a fair fight and that's only case where she really faced a celestial mage Duke Everlue has to be discounted because Natsu was the one who took his only celestial spirit Virgo.
There is no such thing as a fair fight, you take out your opponent or you don't. Your saying a member of Oración Seis (a group who controled 1/3 of the underworld) is not a good mage? Angel took out 3 very powerful mages and got beat by Lucy in the end. i'm not saying Lucy is on Erza level but she's no slouch.
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Old 2012-05-29, 12:25   Link #8490
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There is no such thing as a fair fight, you take out your opponent or you don't. Your saying a member of Oración Seis (a group who controled 1/3 of the underworld) is not a good mage? Angel took out 3 very powerful mages and got beat by Lucy in the end. i'm not saying Lucy is on Erza level but she's no slouch.
Yes, but you also must recall that Lucy had some help during that fight. She had never heard of Urano Metria before the spell was downloaded into her brain with a massive power surge to cast it. Lucy has yet to have a defining fight that's truly one on one. Her fight against Flare would have been such, had there not been outside interference.
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Old 2012-05-29, 14:03   Link #8491
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
You said it yourself, her power doubled when Gemini turned into her (or rather, since they were both using the same spell the spell "cost" was halved for each). When Gemini turns into someone they are an exact copy, down to their power level. Had Gemini turned into someone stronger than Lucy (like Erza for example) it would be as strong as that person.
I don't think Gemini can do that though, since Levy stated Gemini can only turn into people with a similar level of magic. Now not sure if that means Gemini's level or Lucy's level. But here's a quote of how Gemini's power works according to Fairy Tail wiki

Quote:
The Gemini twins have the ability to transform flawlessly into anyone that they have contact with. With this, Gemini is well suited for purposes like infiltration and information gathering/retrieval. Once transformed, they will gain the transformed person's knowledge, Magic and their recent thoughts (if not while they are thinking about them in real time). When they recall memories, they talk in a bullet style listing; the amount of information that they can access is, of course, limited to the knowledge that the genuine counterpart is actually aware of, and nothing more beyond that. However, Gemini can only hold the transformation for five minutes, and they must touch the person in order to transform. Gemini can only retain the capability to transform up to two people, and any more additional transformation requires them to erase the older one of the transformed forms.Gemini can also transform themselves into a near target without touching, but this restrains the appearance of the clone to the appearance that it had last time they have contact.
Though not sure when Gemini touched Lucy.


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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
No, the strength of the summons is always the same. The amount of time they stay summoned and the amount of spirits that can be summoned at the same time (or in a given period of time) is what depends on the summoner's stamina and skill.
I don't think so. It was stated by Lucy in both the anime and manga that as she gets stronger, so will her spirits.

Quote:
The strength of the Celestial Spirits is affected by the Magical strength of their summoner as Lucy once said that her spirits could become even stronger than Natsu if she trained more.
http://www.mangareader.net/135-7161-...hapter-46.html
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Old 2012-05-29, 14:10   Link #8492
Randrak42
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Huh...well I guess I was wrong then.
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Old 2012-05-29, 14:28   Link #8493
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Huh...well I guess I was wrong then.
Its all confusing tbh . It doesn't help that sometimes Mashima recons stuff either lol
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Old 2012-05-29, 15:41   Link #8494
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Well, to be fair, I would think that the base strength of the spirit also factors in as well.

Even if Plue recieved the same amount of magical energy, there's no way he's competing against Taurus. Say that Lucy's power is like an exponent (I'll use ^5): Plue might have a pwr lvl of 2 while Taurus has a pwr lvl of 252. Even if they are both given the same exponent, 2^5 is no where close to 252^5.

Buuut, there's no way that Lucy can provide the same lvl of power to Taurus as she could Plue, so Plue could theoretically recieve 2^20 while Taurus can only get 252^3 because of the total amount of energy Lucy has avaliable to her. There's also the total amount a spirit can channel to its 'limit' as well.
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Old 2012-05-29, 16:58   Link #8495
sergel02
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Well, to be fair, I would think that the base strength of the spirit also factors in as well.

Even if Plue recieved the same amount of magical energy, there's no way he's competing against Taurus. Say that Lucy's power is like an exponent (I'll use ^5): Plue might have a pwr lvl of 2 while Taurus has a pwr lvl of 252. Even if they are both given the same exponent, 2^5 is no where close to 252^5.

Buuut, there's no way that Lucy can provide the same lvl of power to Taurus as she could Plue, so Plue could theoretically recieve 2^20 while Taurus can only get 252^3 because of the total amount of energy Lucy has avaliable to her. There's also the total amount a spirit can channel to its 'limit' as well.
lol we could write a whole essay on Lucy, her history, her significance, and her powers

But yes, i do believe what you said is true. I remember Lucy saying how Aquarius is one of her most powerful spirits. And Leo is said to be the most powerful out of the 12. I think, like you said, some spirits are just stronger than others.
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Old 2012-05-29, 17:03   Link #8496
Randrak42
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Each spirit probably has a base level of strength and a cap. What level they are between those two when summoned must depend on the user.

That said...I wonder if Leo/Loki is stronger when summoned by Lucy or when he summons himself.
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Old 2012-05-29, 19:38   Link #8497
sergel02
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Each spirit probably has a base level of strength and a cap. What level they are between those two when summoned must depend on the user.

That said...I wonder if Leo/Loki is stronger when summoned by Lucy or when he summons himself.
I've always wondered this himself. Though he said himself a few times that he is strongest with Lucy. But i imagine that if he was with a weaker mage or a mage who wasn't as kind as Lucy, then his power might be lower.
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Old 2012-05-29, 22:36   Link #8498
Krono
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Think of it like summons in Final Fantasy. Some summons are better/do more damage than others, but a higher level/more powerful summoner will still do more damage than a weaker/lower level one using the exact same summon. And occasionally the gap in magic stats is so great that the stronger summoner does more damage with a weaker summon, than the weaker summoner does with a stronger summon.

I rather doubt there's an actual cap on how powerful the spirits can be other than the strength of their summoner. That's why Angel was able to so easily take out Loki and Taurus with Caellum. So give Plue to someone like Makarov, and he'll be able to stomp any gold key user seen thus far.

All this is also why I say Flare wasn't weak. Lucy's summons are powered up, and Flare was easily able to dodge Taurus, and block Scorpio. She didn't really start having problems until she had to deal with a combo attack from them. So if Lucy hadn't been powered up and still only able to summon a single spirit at a time, Flare would have been stomping them. Lucy might have still had a chance with Cancer, but there wouldn't be any guarantee that an unpowered up Cancer could cut through her hair so easily.
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Old 2012-05-30, 00:36   Link #8499
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
The nature of Gray's power means he doesn't really have any obvious way to show us he's more powerful the way Natsu getting effective use of LFD mode, or Lucy multi-spirit summon does.
Nah, just have him create larger and more-complex constructs

(I was gonna say he could also branch into living constructs, but that's Leon's schtick, and it'd go against Ur's words about having your own style.)
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Old 2012-05-30, 15:32   Link #8500
Bombo
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I'm ready the last pages in 284 over and over...I can't stop reading last 5 pages ..It's look like reading 100 chapters !!!!!!
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