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Old 2012-05-31, 17:27   Link #701
ars89
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Damn, everyone time i watch this words just escape me, another great ep.
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Old 2012-05-31, 17:57   Link #702
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
The ultimate effect of all that combined is a sexualisation of intimacy in a way that makes modern society feel... lonely. As if being comfortable with another prerson is so rare that it has to automatically lead to a pair-bonding default. It's slightly depressing. It's never really the fault of any single show. I guess you could say I'm an "unshipper". Wherever I see people get along, and others want to make them a pair, I go "Why can't they just stay friends?"
I largely agree with you here. I mean don't get me wrong I have my favorite romantic ships and I love a well written romantic relationship but showing genuine friendship is just so rare in a story and it is a little annoying that everything has to be turned into romance if it's not the writers then it is by the fans.

It is ultimately saying that the only deep loving relationship you can have is a romance and friendship is something weaker...and well since I have very strong friendships in real life this is something I ultimately disagree with.


As for this episode I thought it was largely very good. I like how the little separation Sen & Kaoru has had has only seemed to strengthen their bond in the end and in a way it is what made Kaoru himself realize Sen's importance to him.

I also mostly like how Yurika and Jun's relationship is working out. There is some good drama going on there (although even though he didn't do anything I didn't like how Jun pushed her down at all).

I wish the anime would have expanded on the student protests. I know there is limited time but I am largely ignorant about them and while I got the general gist I could only partially understand what was going on from those flashbacks (well I guess that is what Wikipedia is for).

And although it is nice that Sen finally realized Ri-chan's feelings I am less sure how I feel about Ri-chan not being sure if she likes Kaoru now.
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Old 2012-05-31, 18:21   Link #703
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It's about time the girls got some screen time. They've been barely been focused on for the majority of the series.
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Old 2012-05-31, 18:24   Link #704
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
It's about time the girls got some screen time. They've been barely been focused on for the majority of the series.
Well that is because the girls are the supporting characters while Sen & Kaoru are the main ones.
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Old 2012-05-31, 20:42   Link #705
SeijiSensei
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It feels like every episode is better than the ones before.

Apparently Kaoru Chujo and I were wrong.
Spoiler:

Like Kim, I didn't like Jun's treatment of Yurika either, though it's so reminiscent of Sen in the stairwell. Yurika has remarkable strength of character, though. Look at how she embarrasses Jun in that sequence by agreeing. She would have cooperated too, I'm sure, but I suspect she knew that by offering herself she gained the upper hand.

It's nice to see Sentarou overcome his block-headedness when it comes to Ritsuko. It might be too little, too late, though. Making a bento is one thing, but knitting is in an entirely separate class. (I'm reminded of Yuuno's handwarmer for Shinkurou in Kurenai.) I can see Ritsuko finishing that sweater then not being sure which boy to give it to!

I like Kaoru more in this episode than I have for a while. He's become so thoughtful, less self-obsessed, and kinder. Good for him.
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Old 2012-05-31, 23:08   Link #706
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Episode 8: Owww.

Sentarou: Many viewers saw it coming, but it didn't lessen the impact on Sentarou, like a sledgehammer in the chest. His first love and first heart break, the pain amplified by his innocence and living in a more innocent time. The voice actor did a great job with the "bakayarou." The strained voice told all.

All things considered, Sentarou seems to be handling heartbreak well. It would be normal for him to feel like it was the end of the world; perhaps more grief and outpouring took place off screen. Perhaps the fact that he detected hints of Yurkia's affection and a history of looking up to but never measuring up to his idol Jun helped him face facts. "The better man won."

Still, hard to imagine Sentarou getting over Yurika that quickly and cleanly. I think Sentarou will find resolution and move on, but there's still work to be done (read: more action to come).

Ritsu: Clearly beginning to develop feelings for Kaoru. And why wouldn't she? Kaoru is handsome, smart, talented, rich, fun to get along with, and a gentleman (except for that kiss). Most importantly, he likes her. Feelings for childhood friends do not necessarily last forever. So what does Ritsu do now?

Oh and case anyone missed it, the cute classmate who inspired Ritsu to knit appears to have a crush on glasses-freckle-chubby-guitarist-train-otaku-boy, whose name I forget. So good things come to nerds after all!

Now if you'll excuse, I'm off to take some pills for the dull pain in my stomach.

Edit: Calling it now: Yurika's father will try to arrange her marriage with Kaoru. Nothing will come of it, and the effects on the current relationship map will be negligible.
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Old 2012-05-31, 23:23   Link #707
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Well, Yurika and Jun are done and over with. Yurika is the type that will get her way regardless of what her parents want her to do. Maybe she'll elope with Jun. Jun just needs to get his groove back.

Now we have a nice love triangle shaping up. Sen likes Ri. Ri likes Kaoru and Kaoru thinks Ri likes Sen. To complete the triangle, we all know Kaoru will eventually fall for Sen. I may even get the chance to see Sen and Kaoru holding hands walking toward the sunset at the end.
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Old 2012-05-31, 23:49   Link #708
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
It's difficult to explain. What bothers me, personally, is a tendency to go for pair-bonding as the narrative default. And if this takes over, it drives out other narrative constellations: it's as if the only sort of intimacy that's worthy of a story is romantic love. I'm just tired of that. If it's male-female, what's bothering me is the implication that male-female friendships are impossible/romantic couples in denial/stepping stones to romance. If it's same gender, what's bothering me is that bodily contact is automatically assumed to be sexual in nature (an example would be Sen grabbing Kaoru's hand and running).

*snip*
Well said. I completely agree with most of what you've written, the one caveat being taken out for a comment below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
Sakamichi no Apollon is in my top three this season. It's a great show, but the plot isn't the main draw for me. And, yes, I was sort of miffed to see Ritsuko crushing on Sentaro, not because there's anything wrong with this, but simply because it's yet another missed opportunity for a portrayal of male-female friendship.
There's no reason, however, that it can't be both friendship and romantic love. Ritchan obviously cares very much for Sentarou, and I'm sure she'd be almost the same if she was actually in love with someone else (and it certainly looks like it's headed that way, doesn't it?).

There is a very good reason why a lot of people in happy marriages say that their spouse is their best friend.

Other than that - the three of them (Sen and Ritchan and Kaoru) have now been friends for what...about a year? And pretty strong friendship bonds on all sides too, what with each person trying to support the bonds of friendship and/or love between the other two, or just trying to support each other fullstop (unfortunately, it's not as obvious here as in the manga - the time constraint is really telling now). So there IS friendship there, both between Ritchan and each of the guys, and also between Sen and Kaoru. But like all relationships, they're somewhat more complex than can be covered by a single concept like "romantic love" or even "friendship" or "bromance" if you wish - because there are many kinds of friendships.

This was the problem I had with No.6 too. And even with Macross Frontier. It's something of a habit for people to want to simplify things to one simple concept or theory (after one and a half years of my current degree, in a field which is dominated by this kind of desire for parsimony, I really can't stand it). Human relationships really are a bit more complex than that.

-----

Moving on to the episode...hm...it felt somewhat...average...after last week's finale. *sighs* perhaps it's the final calm before the storm, so-to-speak.

But...I was rather happy to hear the Cherry Bell duo of Sakurai Takahiro and Suzumura Kenichi in there ^^ and...seriously, Hosoya just keeps getting better with each new show...each new week, even...
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Old 2012-06-01, 01:22   Link #709
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
Well, Yurika and Jun are done and over with. Yurika is the type that will get her way regardless of what her parents want her to do. Maybe she'll elope with Jun. Jun just needs to get his groove back.
I guess that letter will do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
It feels like every episode is better than the ones before.

Apparently Kaoru Chujo and I were wrong.
Spoiler:

Like Kim, I didn't like Jun's treatment of Yurika either, though it's so reminiscent of Sen in the stairwell. Yurika has remarkable strength of character, though. Look at how she embarrasses Jun in that sequence by agreeing. She would have cooperated too, I'm sure, but I suspect she knew that by offering herself she gained the upper hand.

It's nice to see Sentarou overcome his block-headedness when it comes to Ritsuko. It might be too little, too late, though. Making a bento is one thing, but knitting is in an entirely separate class. (I'm reminded of Yuuno's handwarmer for Shinkurou in Kurenai.) I can see Ritsuko finishing that sweater then not being sure which boy to give it to!
She'd better be sure before making it. They're not the same size at all.

Also, I don't blame her at all, but she's got abominable timing to change targets.
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Old 2012-06-01, 01:34   Link #710
Dawnstorm
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
There's no reason, however, that it can't be both friendship and romantic love. Ritchan obviously cares very much for Sentarou, and I'm sure she'd be almost the same if she was actually in love with someone else (and it certainly looks like it's headed that way, doesn't it?).

*snip*
I actually agree with this (including the snip). I think I phrased that badly. "Opportunity for portrayal of male-female friendship" should have been more something like "opporunity for portrayal of male-female friendship, free of the cliché romance attachment". (Actually, thinking about it in terms of cliché, I'm now imagining Sentarou having that secret crush. It's usually the female childhood friend who has the crush, isn't it?)
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Old 2012-06-01, 01:38   Link #711
thundrakkon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Apparently Kaoru Chujo and I were wrong.
Spoiler:
Well, previously, yes, but not anymore.

Spoiler for Episode 8:


Another solid episode. The love triangle that just won't go away has now gotten even more complicated. Sen's love affair with one relationship ended up in a heartbreak, but now he has realized he is in another one already. How will this end up? Someone will end up hurt in the end, and I'm guessing 2 out of the 3 will be hurt, if not all 3.

Ritsuko is now in the "muddy" feelings stage, where she is not sure who she really likes anymore. That usually continues with more pain before everything ends. For some reason, I feel like in the end, all three will go their separate ways. A girl can be a very divisive catalyst between two guy friends, especially when both love her. It really doesn't help when she can't decide between them, and at this stage, Ritsuko is exactly at that predicament.

I'm not counting Jun out yet. Before the story ends, he could end up as a martyr of sorts. Will Yurika be able to save him before his demise, or will she end up alone (with his baby)?
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Old 2012-06-01, 01:41   Link #712
Guardian Enzo
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I haven't read the manga, but my view on that scene is quite different. I thought Yurika's Mom just assumed she'd slept with Jun, and was interested in nipping any potential embarrassments to the family in the bud.
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Old 2012-06-01, 01:49   Link #713
thundrakkon
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From Sen's reaction, it also seemed like it was more than just Yurika choosing Jun over him. The fact that Yurika did not deny her mom in that scene is more revealing. Usually, if your mom is jumping to a negative conclusion about you, you would immediately defend your honor.
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Old 2012-06-01, 02:13   Link #714
ID555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Well, previously, yes, but not anymore.

Spoiler for Episode 8:


Another solid episode. The love triangle that just won't go away has now gotten even more complicated. Jun's love affair with one relationship ended up in a heartbreak, but now he has realized he is in another one already.
Are you saying Jun's bisexual?
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Old 2012-06-01, 02:23   Link #715
thundrakkon
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Are you saying Jun's bisexual?
LOL I keep getting the names mixed up in this series. I meant Sen and his current love predicament.
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Old 2012-06-01, 02:37   Link #716
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
From Sen's reaction, it also seemed like it was more than just Yurika choosing Jun over him. The fact that Yurika did not deny her mom in that scene is more revealing. Usually, if your mom is jumping to a negative conclusion about you, you would immediately defend your honor.
First, Sen wouldn't know anything - who would tell him?

Second, I don't think we really know enough about Yurika and her relationship with her family to say she'd immediately defend her honour.

Most of us today would - well...depending on the reality, of course.

But given what we know of her situation (almost nothing, other than she's well-off and was known to have a pure image), I don't think we can assume that they've already slept together.

Ah, and as for Jun - I also believe that what Yurika said about his motive is true: he was trying to drive her away from him. Hence, I doubt he would have gone through with it - he was probably hoping she'd fight and run away, and he would have let her go.
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Old 2012-06-01, 02:42   Link #717
ID555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
LOL I keep getting the names mixed up in this series. I meant Sen and his current love predicament.
Ah okay. Though admittedly, he did seem a bit too regretful over what happened to the bandmate.
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Old 2012-06-01, 02:47   Link #718
thundrakkon
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I guess we'll have to wait and see. Last week, I believe they did not. This week, I believe they did. Time has passed in this episode since the time Yurika first went to Jun's apartment to when the mom was talking to her. A lot of things could have happened in between, especially considering that she visits Jun all the time.

Her personality supposedly changed as well, as noted by other people. Also, her mom seemed to show some concern for her, trying to lighten the blow that the dad did. It seems that the mom at least has somewhat of a closer connection, so it did seem strange for her not to protect her honor.

It's a good story so far, and adding pregnancy to the story adds a different, more adult theme.
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Old 2012-06-01, 03:49   Link #719
DragoonKain3
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Sen no BAKA! Only realizing your feelings when Ri-chan is on the verge of being taken away by Bon. Not sure if I want to continue cheering Sen on because they're childhood friends, or want to see him get (as other people would say it) "NTR'd" because he's being a douche. >_>


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gankutsuou View Post
If Kaoru was a female character, none of you "heteronormative" commentators would even doubt the potential for "romance" between Kaoru and Sen.
You underestimate my shippiness. In my mind, SenxRi'ko has already happened and no other pairing involving them stand a whit of a chance, no matter their gender!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
The problem is (A) the cries of, "Eww! Gay cooties!" any time a show focuses on two male characters, and (B) the snickering about fujoshi even though nobody ever complains about yuri-fanboys squeeing any time two girls share a tender moment.
I personally don't have a problem with fujoshis. On the contrary I feel the closest to that group mainly because I can't help but see romance even if the authorial intent isn't there; just a different type of couple, is all.

What I care about is if people talking about their favourite coupling is being suppressed, whether it be other shippers telling them how unfeasible it is or non-shippers saying they have no place in doing so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
And, yes, I was sort of miffed to see Ritsuko crushing on Sentaro, not because there's anything wrong with this, but simply because it's yet another missed opportunity for a portrayal of male-female friendship.
...
The ultimate effect of all that combined is a sexualisation of intimacy in a way that makes modern society feel... lonely. As if being comfortable with another prerson is so rare that it has to automatically lead to a pair-bonding default.
I personally see it the other way around. I feel that being friends with someone is so commonplace (regardless of gender) in our everyday lives, and that in contrast true love is indeed quite rare, and the search for it would be akin to the search for the holy grail. And considering I treat entertainment as something that should show something EXTRAordinary, it only follows that shipping comes naturally to me.

I guess different strokes for different folks.
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Old 2012-06-01, 07:47   Link #720
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Food for thought:

Put yourselves in the shoes of Yurika's mom and dad: You pour your love and care into your (only?) child for 17-18 years, then out of the blue, in the span of a few months, her behavior changes rapidly, she starts getting into trouble at school, and then you learn she's dating/living with an older, questionable man, possibly in trouble with the law (and carrying that man's child?), all before she graduates from school.

Now, they're minor characters and we're not supposed to give much thought to their feelings, but it seems natural that Yurika's parents would be hurt and upset.

They're not shown to be stereotypical over-controlling parents whose vanity was offended either: Yurika hangs out with who she wants, goes where she wants (the beach, the record store, a bar frequented by American sailors at night), when she wants. If anything, her parents appear to grant her autonomy extraordinary for this time period and culture. I could understand if they felt Yurika has betrayed their trust, and in a way she has.

Of course, this being anime, the audience sees that Yurika and Jun are truly in love, and true love ignores social conventions. Still, being in love does not necessarily meaning burning bridges with your parents, and I can not but feel that Yurika could have handled it better (like waiting till graduation).
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