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Old 2012-06-01, 05:56   Link #21
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
That's their plan
Which is why I find it a bit weird that Sony didn't pony up the money for this exclusive, they need some meat on their system

Though, it could be that games for the VITA seem closer to developing for a console game than the 3DS, so yeah this is just a show of the times.
Also remember that the 3DS is selling like hotcakes right now, and they probably want to get in on it without having to go through the troubles of creating a full console game.
Vita's simply no longer a good prospective system for selling games on in Japan when it's selling weekly close 360 levels in Japan you know it's a massive bomb over there. It'd probably be far too expensive for Sony to money hat it.

Basically no third party publisher would want to touch a game of there's exclusive to it with a reasonable budget with a 10 foot barge pole. Ports sure, but not exclusive games. It's all on Sony's money hatting capabilities and first parties to take it out of it's rut.
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Old 2012-06-01, 09:23   Link #22
com_gwp
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Vita's simply no longer a good prospective system for selling games on in Japan when it's selling weekly close 360 levels in Japan you know it's a massive bomb over there. It'd probably be far too expensive for Sony to money hat it.

Basically no third party publisher would want to touch a game of there's exclusive to it with a reasonable budget with a 10 foot barge pole. Ports sure, but not exclusive games. It's all on Sony's money hatting capabilities and first parties to take it out of it's rut.
You just basically described the first year of the 3DS as well.

Point is, don't be so quick to take it out for the count. Sure, there aren't many games for it out right now, but give it time and you'll see more software, same with the 3DS. (And I oughta know, I was a day-one buyer)
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Old 2012-06-01, 09:35   Link #23
Destined_Fate
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Indeed, it sounds like when the 3ds came out. It had no games and the only thing people had to look forward to were ports or first party titles. Sad that for the longest time many of the games did horrible other than the remake of OoT.
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Old 2012-06-01, 11:41   Link #24
DonQuigleone
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When it comes to the handhelds themselves, I find the Vita more appealing then the 3DS. The Vita has more powerful graphics and a wider variety of control options.

The 3DS has ... 3d. Maybe it's my poor eyesight, but I generally find 3d underwhelming. I tried a friend's 3ds and didn't get much of an effect. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. 3d is too much of a gimmick to me, I don't see how it will meaningfully improve much.

Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2012-06-01 at 12:22.
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Old 2012-06-01, 13:14   Link #25
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmagEvil
Because most players have an home console
You're not going to convince me that most of us also have a DS and/or PSP. And yes, even then people complained. I vaguely remember people doing so when Strange Journey was announced for the DS.
Quote:
and if you don't have this handheld, you're forced to buy it that's why it sucks...
The same argument could be made for home consoles. If a game is released on a home console that you want you have to buy it, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
What I do care about is that the flagship series is being released on a handheld. Which doesn't bode well for the lesser spinoffs getting a console release.
But what does it matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone
I hope it won't be a handheld release though. Don't care if the graphics aren't amazing.
I find this to be a terrible attitude. The game doesn't automatically become a lesser one if it doesn't have eye candy.
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Old 2012-06-01, 13:54   Link #26
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
But what does it matter?
As someone who almost strictly plays RPGs, it does matter. That's one less flagship series off consoles, which implies that the RPG market is starting to sour and isn't profitable enough to keep up with development costs.

Sure it's a slippery slope, but what next? Tales never gonna make it to the PS4/Xbox720? FF15 going to be PSVita/3ds exclusive like its Dragon Quest cousin?

I dunno, it's just I've been sad every since they had to downgrade Vakyria Chronicles sequels to the handhelds. I know the reality of the situation, but it's still a very bitter pill to swallow.
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Old 2012-06-01, 15:35   Link #27
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
That's one less flagship series off consoles, which implies that the RPG market is starting to sour and isn't profitable enough to keep up with development costs.
Well, given how much development costs have increased since the PS2/GC days that's hardly surprising, is it?
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Old 2012-06-01, 16:22   Link #28
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
I find this to be a terrible attitude. The game doesn't automatically become a lesser one if it doesn't have eye candy.
No I mean that I don't mind if the game has subpar graphics, if it comes out on console. If it's just a little better then Persona 4 I'd be happy. But I want to play my game on a big screen, for comfort's sake.
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Old 2012-06-01, 16:23   Link #29
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
No I mean that I don't mind if the game has subpar graphics, if it comes out on console. If it's just a little better then Persona 4 I'd be happy. But I want to play my game on a big screen, for comfort's sake.
I find playing a handheld on my bed even more comfortable.
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Old 2012-06-01, 19:53   Link #30
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I find playing a handheld on my bed even more comfortable.
It's about as comfortable as reading a book. Which isn't very comfortable at all. And there's eye strain to deal with.

Best position for gaming is reclining, with a controller in your hands, on a couch(or comfortable chair), in front of a large screen.

Handhelds are also a lot heavier then game controllers, and furthermore, you don't need to look at the game controller, allowing it to rest on your lap. A handheld, on the other hand, has to be held up, which gets tiring after a while. Sitting at a computer is more comfortable.

And if you want to let your handheld rest on your lap, you have to crook your neck downwards, which feels all kinds of uncomfortable.
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Old 2012-06-02, 00:48   Link #31
Angelic Cross
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Originally Posted by com_gwp View Post
You just basically described the first year of the 3DS as well.

Point is, don't be so quick to take it out for the count. Sure, there aren't many games for it out right now, but give it time and you'll see more software, same with the 3DS. (And I oughta know, I was a day-one buyer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Indeed, it sounds like when the 3ds came out. It had no games and the only thing people had to look forward to were ports or first party titles. Sad that for the longest time many of the games did horrible other than the remake of OoT.
You're forgetting a few things. Aligning their launch dates, weekly sales of the 3DS were matching sales of the DS in the first year, more or less. And I can't even recall if weekly 3DS sales fell below 10000 units. Plus there was also the fact that the 3DS had guaranteed first-party system selling games coming within its first year.

With regards to first party titles, that was one of the very things that helped increases sales of 3DS and kept interest in them going. Maybe that's a lesson Sony should have picked up earlier, considering they have some good first party franchises they could have leveraged at launch to at least alleviate the Vita's situation.

Finally, the PSP may have done well, but it's still the loser in the previous generation's portable war. And the main reason it did well previously was thanks to Monster Hunter keeping it alive long enough to convince third parties to make more games for it. Sony no longer has that particular advantage.

You can talk about hope all you want, but the it all just adds up to an even worse first year position compared to the same period as the 3DS'. And even then Nintendo was already taking very visible steps to fix their situation. Sony, meanwhile, seems to be satisfied to sit and scratch their rear end. It's very hard for people to not count the Vita out if Sony isn't trying to reassure them that they're doing something to ease their concerns.

EDIT: Also, what's everyone's speculation on the setting? Tokyo gets dumped into a Last Bible-style setting or is merging with it? That'd certainly be something different.
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Old 2012-06-02, 14:01   Link #32
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
As someone who almost strictly plays RPGs, it does matter. That's one less flagship series off consoles, which implies that the RPG market is starting to sour and isn't profitable enough to keep up with development costs.
As Kaisos Erranon implies, that has more to do with only the best-selling games being profitable due to development costs for home consoles amounting to a small fortune nowadays.
Quote:
I dunno, it's just I've been sad every since they had to downgrade Vakyria Chronicles sequels to the handhelds.
See, I don't think a series being moved to a handheld console has to be seen as a "downgrade". Sure, the graphics won't be as good, but what really matters is the quality of everything else, which isn't necessarily at risk there. Handheld games's budgets are smaller which allows for more risk and thus potentially better decisions which means potentially better games than if it had been on a home console.

I really don't like the implication that handheld games are lesser games. The DS, if nothing else, should have proved by now that excellent games are possible on handhelds as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone
And there's eye strain to deal with.
You mean big screens don't cause eye strain?
Quote:
Handhelds are also a lot heavier then game controllers
*weighs his Game Boy Advance*
*weighs his DS Lite*
*weighs his Classic Controller Pro*
*weighs his Xbox 360 controller*

That's not true. What handheld console were you using as reference? The Sega Game Gear?

As for comfort, the advantage of handheld consoles is that you can play them anywhere in whatever pose and at whatever place you're most comfortable with.
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Old 2012-06-02, 18:59   Link #33
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
You mean big screens don't cause eye strain?
Lot harder to read text off the small DS screen. Also, a large screen can fit more information more comfortably.

Quote:
*weighs his Game Boy Advance*
*weighs his DS Lite*
*weighs his Classic Controller Pro*
*weighs his Xbox 360 controller*

That's not true. What handheld console were you using as reference? The Sega Game Gear?
I'm comparing a DS lite to a PS3 controller (one of the newer ones). In addition, don't forget that you can rest a standard controller on your lap (as you don't have to look at it), whereas you need to hold up a handheld (in order to look at the screen). A keyboard/mouse is very comfortable because there's no weight at all on your arms, and you can control the machine, with your hands quite stationary, resting on the tabletop.

[/quote]
As for comfort, the advantage of handheld consoles is that you can play them anywhere in whatever pose and at whatever place you're most comfortable with.[/QUOTE]
I can't think of anywhere more comfortable then a couch (Console) or in a good reclining desk chair (PC).


If you want to talk comfort, where's the best place to browse the web? On your PC? On a console (presuming you've got a keyboard/mouse hooked up), or on your phone, or handheld gaming system. The PC/console will be a far superior experience.
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Old 2012-06-02, 19:49   Link #34
com_gwp
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Originally Posted by Angelic Cross View Post
You're forgetting a few things. Aligning their launch dates, weekly sales of the 3DS were matching sales of the DS in the first year, more or less. And I can't even recall if weekly 3DS sales fell below 10000 units. Plus there was also the fact that the 3DS had guaranteed first-party system selling games coming within its first year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelic Cross View Post
You can talk about hope all you want, but the it all just adds up to an even worse first year position compared to the same period as the 3DS'. And even then Nintendo was already taking very visible steps to fix their situation. Sony, meanwhile, seems to be satisfied to sit and scratch their rear end. It's very hard for people to not count the Vita out if Sony isn't trying to reassure them that they're doing something to ease their concerns.
You're basically comparing peanuts. Sales data hardly follows such a straightfoward trend, especially at such an early stage of an extended product life cycle. I never saw the point in taking out the data at this stage, because they're hardly indicative further down the product's lifespan. Yes, the Nintendo might very well beat out Sony in sales once again, but it hardly affirmative of the Vita's own commercial success.

Furthermore, you talk about first-party title leverage, but Sony is already putting out some of their biggest franchises for the system, with Uncharted, Resistance, etc making it out in the same span it took Nintendo to get out a port of OoT. Whether or not they're good is something else altogether (TBH the Vita uncharted wasn't that great), but point is, you know they're taking it very seriously when uncharted was marketed as a launch title.

Also, justification for owning a 3DS didn't come until E3 when the first part titles were formally given release schedules. (IMO there wasn't a good game to own in the first 4 months until OoT) so Sony might be holding their cards until next week as well. For its launch, even if the sales didn't live up to expectations, Vita had a much stronger showing with strong franchises (MGS, Persona) given clear release schedules already, and a couple of big first party titles showing up.

Regardless, this argument shouldn't really be here. Sorry for going off-topic.
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Old 2012-06-02, 23:32   Link #35
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
As Kaisos Erranon implies, that has more to do with only the best-selling games being profitable due to development costs for home consoles amounting to a small fortune nowadays.
Which EXACTLY is the point. I can't help but feel envious of the AAA games getting an iteration every damn year, when RPGs would be lucky to have one in three years. The market is simply not there for big budget RPGs, and as someone who likes all types of RPGs, this decrease in variety makes me real sad.


Quote:
See, I don't think a series being moved to a handheld console has to be seen as a "downgrade". Sure, the graphics won't be as good, but what really matters is the quality of everything else, which isn't necessarily at risk there.
I dunno, VC2 kinda disappointed me with a lower roster, smaller maps, and fewer gigantic enemies to fight. Or how about the removal of exploring the school in Persona 3: Portable? Clearly because of the limitation of handhelds.


Quote:
Handheld games's budgets are smaller which allows for more risk and thus potentially better decisions which means potentially better games than if it had been on a home console.
Hint: I LOVE experimental RPGs.

So this wouldn't be a problem for me, but fact of the matter is, handhelds aren't as popular outside of Japan. As such, handheld localizations take forever for these 'riskier ventures', even though companies have announced they have plans to do so eventually.

I mean, where's FF type-0? Or how about Trails of the Sky parts 2 and 3? Even worse, they might follow the fate of Grand Knight's History. Not to mention one of my favourite series, SaGa, would be doubtful of ever going to get released the DS remakes of it in English.

On the other hand, there's an English release of almost every RPG made for this generation's consoles, with the exceptions being AFAIK Chevalier Saga Tactics (NISA claims they're gonna publish it but no word for a very long time), Class of Heroes 3 (which AFAIK is still being pushed by Victor Ireland of Working Design's infamy), and Tales of Xillia (understandable as Graces was just released this year).


Quote:
I really don't like the implication that handheld games are lesser games. The DS, if nothing else, should have proved by now that excellent games are possible on handhelds as well.
Don't get me wrong, my favourite game of 2010 is Infinite Space and 2011 would be Tactics Ogre. I'm someone who values graphics as the least important part of the RPG, but I still wonder how cool IS would've been with fully rendered spaceships or if Tactics Ogre simply didn't look almost identical to its 16-bit version.
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Old 2012-06-03, 09:42   Link #36
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone
Lot harder to read text off the small DS screen.
I don't have a problem with it. In contrast, a non-trivial amount of games on HD consoles have small text that's a pain to read.
Quote:
I can't think of anywhere more comfortable then a couch (Console) or in a good reclining desk chair (PC).
Like someone else, I like my bed. To each his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by com_gwp
Furthermore, you talk about first-party title leverage, but Sony is already putting out some of their biggest franchises for the system, with Uncharted, Resistance, etc making it out in the same span it took Nintendo to get out a port of OoT.
Yes, they are, but they don't take them seriously. They aren't putting their best studios to work, instead giving the jobs to their second-rate and most horrible development studios. There's a reason Uncharted on the Vita didn't turn out great.

Contrast that with Nintendo who has their games developed by their best studios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
So this wouldn't be a problem for me, but fact of the matter is, handhelds aren't as popular outside of Japan.
I would argue that the PSP isn't as popular outside of Japan. I understand that we didn't get the SaGa remakes for the DS, but we did get most of everything else.

I feel your pain, though. I want Phantasy Star Portable 2: Infinity and Valkyria Chronicles 3 (which I hear is much, much better than the previous game).
Quote:
my favourite game of 2010 is Infinite Space
This is getting even more off-topic, but could you explain to me why? I've only heard bad things about that game.
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Old 2012-06-04, 19:56   Link #37
DragoonKain3
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Infinite Space struck multiple chords with me.

Spoiler for Off topic:
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Old 2012-06-05, 00:40   Link #38
JohnNiles
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Well, at least I learned something from this thread. I picked up Infinite Space last fall because it looked unusual but set it aside when I heard about an unrecoverable bug. I'll get to it sooner or later- I am trying to get all the older PSP/DS games out of the way before I pick up the new portables. I love Suikoden, too.
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Old 2012-08-28, 07:21   Link #39
SilverSyko
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First trailer for the game:



We see both a medieval castle and a cityscape. Maybe time travel is involved?

It's also the first main SMT game to have actual voice acting, so maybe it's narrative will be a little more prominent as well.

Finally that last scene in the trailer is in 3rd person, so I guess we can expect the return of Nocturne's gamplay style?

Release date in Japan will be next year (2013).
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Old 2012-08-28, 11:22   Link #40
Kimidori
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awesome!! waiting for it. i can hear Law theme at the beginning there.
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