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Old 2012-06-02, 09:10   Link #841
miketyson
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kuromitsu: fair enough. To me, for it to be an out and out shipping war the shipping aspect has to be self-contained and being focused on for no other reason but to have internet arguments. In Aquarion there's at least potentially thematic and storyline significance to the ships, which means I've seen it as us witnessing a "shipping proxy war" -- at least so far, we can always fall even further, . (FWIW: this is why I think it's bad to tie thematic stuff so directly to romantic decisions, it tends to turn out poorly...much better to have separate thematic decisions that are distinct from the romantic angles, even if there's some crosstalk and feedback between the two).

But it's why I've scaled back commenting too, and why I think this dog thing is a beautiful breath of fresh air.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:03   Link #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
>miketyson
"Borderline" shipwar? ^^;; It's far past that line if you ask me (and has been for quite a while), which is one of the things that sucked the fun out of the discussions as far as I'm concerned. Ah well.
I agree with you on this. That's why I want a game-changer.

If the plot is simply "Amata ends up with Mikono, Mykage gets defeated, Zessica ends up Forever Alone (tm), protagonists get a (mostly) happy end, no more major twists" then you'll never hear the end of Mikono/Amata fans vs. Zessica fans.

As somebody who's still cool with Mikono/Amata (not as much as I once was, but it still has its moments) and as somebody who likes Zessica, I'd rather this not be how it all ends up.

So here comes a flying dog to save the day!


Quote:
>Triple_R
But a game changer was to be expected from the start? ^^;; I mean, I can't be the only one who has been sure from day 1 that there would be huge twists in the end...
I admit - I'm starting to lose faith in Okada, at least when it comes to this show.

Doggy Amata would show me that Okada might still have a neat trick or two left up her sleeve.


Now, with the disclaimer that this is based on dog spoiler being correct, here's a detailed speculation I've worked up. I'll call it the "Gen Fudo's Machiavellian Scheme" theory.


Gen Fudo's Machiavellian Scheme Theory:

Fudo and Mykage are engaged in a Chess Match of Intergalactic Ramifications. Fudo's key move against Mykage is a Red Herring designed to manipulate Mykage into doing what Fudo wants Mykage to do (but nothing else).

Fudo knows who Apollo is, who Sylvia is, and who Amata really is. Mykage doesn't know who Apollo really is, and mistakenly thinks that Amata is Apollo. Fudo is trying to use this to his advantage to lead Mykage astray.

So Fudo is setting Amata up as Mykage's target, while playing his cards very close to his vest about who the real Apollo is. Fudo has told only one person who Apollo is, and he's done that off-camera: He's told Mikono to ensure that she's onside with his plans (he's less worried about the well-trained soldier Zessica).

Mikono (Sylvia) initially resented how her "fated lover" is another girl. That's why she was initially frosty towards Zessica and didn't want to shake Zessica's hand.

Fudo's plan also enrages Mikono, since it causes much suffering for Amata and Zessica that could be avoided if they were let in on the truth (but Fudo won't do that, because he's afraid if they find out, his whole 'Red Herring' scheme won't work as well). This helps to explain some of Mikono's anger towards Fudo throughout the series.

Over time, Mikono warms up a bit to Zessica, and gradually comes to accept the situation. She made attempts to get closer to Zessica during the Beach Episode to make things work better.

However, Zessica becomes increasingly in love with Amata, which freaks Mikono out, because it could ruin Fudo's plan and Mikono has no clue how to handle it.

Mikono decides that after she confronts Fudo about this, she's going to beg him to let her reveal the truth to Amata so that the Zessica/Amata issues can be resolved before they spiral out of control. This is what Mikono meant when she told Amata she had something to tell him when she gets back from finding Fudo.

Alas, before that could happen, Mykage/Kagura launches a successful kidnap attempt for a change, and Kagura makes off with Mikono. And here we are now.



So there's my very wild speculation. What do people think? Is it a fun theory at least?
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:05   Link #843
miketyson
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Triple R: when, chronologically, would Fudo have let Mikono in on this? Your theory seems to imply it happened at or before the very beginning of the show...
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:07   Link #844
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You guys are getting way too into this Zessica x Mikono thing. I just don't see it, it would be a bigger ***pull than what's going on right now.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:09   Link #845
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A beautiful theory. It brings a tear to my eye.

It must rely on Fudo contacting Mikono sometime before he officially arrived at Neo-Deava, mind.

Realistically it's unlikely, but elements of it could certainly be true. Like the Fudo but not Mykage knowing who Apollo is thing.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:22   Link #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
>miketyson
"Borderline" shipwar? ^^;; It's far past that line if you ask me (and has been for quite a while), which is one of the things that sucked the fun out of the discussions as far as I'm concerned. Ah well.
I think we're pretty good on the whole shipping thing, and there was some over the topness way, way back when the show started. But no one is out to kill anyone... *tries to kill kuro*

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
A beautiful theory. It brings a tear to my eye.

It must rely on Fudo contacting Mikono sometime before he officially arrived at Neo-Deava, mind.
Change it to, Mikono realizes what's going on mostly and is looking for confirmation from Fudo.

I'm still a bit perplexed by a few lines in this show though, assuming dogs. (1.) Forbidden Lovers between Mikono/Kagura, (2.) Forbidden Power between Mikono/Zessica, and (3.) Detachment Wings sure sounds peculiar if Amata is literally a pair of detached wings (also where did they go). And, again, why did Golden Aquarion wake up to two dogs bickering?
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:24   Link #847
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GoldenLand, I'm glad that you liked it!

Well, if it makes my theory any tighter, perhaps Fudo didn't let Mikono in on the plan until shortly after Fudo made his first appearance in the show. That would make Mikono/Zessica not getting along well at first more "for real", but I think I read that Sylvia/Apollo didn't get along well at first either, so maybe that's no big deal.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:25   Link #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I think we're pretty good on the whole shipping thing, and there was some over the topness way, way back when the show started. But no one is out to kill anyone... *tries to kill kuro*



Change it to, Mikono realizes what's going on mostly and is looking for confirmation from Fudo.

I'm still a bit perplexed by a few lines in this show though, assuming dogs. (1.) Forbidden Lovers between Mikono/Kagura, (2.) Forbidden Power between Mikono/Zessica, and (3.) Detachment Wings sure sounds peculiar if Amata is literally a pair of detached wings (also where did they go).
Well, I'm not sure it's all sit well with genesis, but in the Alicia is Alicia theory, it is said that the physical wings of sun (the ones that were cut off from Appolonius) were passed to Alicia with the dog, and she may have given it to Amagura before leaving to Altea.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:35   Link #849
Triple_R
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Well, I'm not sure it's all sit well with genesis, but in the Alicia is Alicia theory, it is said that the physical wings of sun (the ones that were cut off from Appolonius) were passed to Alicia with the dog, and she may have given it to Amagura before leaving to Altea.
If Zessica = Appolonius, could that also explain Zessica being in love with Amata? Poor Appolo just wants to get his wings back.
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Old 2012-06-02, 10:39   Link #850
miketyson
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Yeah, that makes a bit of sense. I don't consider it that likely, but where has that ever gotten me with this show...(I specifically remember thinking mayumi's complementary colors theory was a bridge too far, and look where we are now, , sorry for doubting your ideas mayumi). If you frame it as Mikono having obtained an inkling on her own but not liking it, it isn't the most impossible theory for this show (though, again, given that this is EVOL that's not really saying much...).

That said, I don't have much problem adopting the dog theory. What I don't see that clearly is how it squares with the rest of the show. Oh, oh wait. Maybe I do:

Remember that theory that Shu-Shu is Sylvia? Oh wow, I can actually sees this working: (part of) Sylvia reincarnated as Shu-Shu and (part of) Apollo reincarnated as (the image of?) his own prior identity's flying dog...specifically because they saw what being reincarnations did to the lives around them and didn't want to cause problems, so came back as animals this time around...

They'd find each other and go live happily in the woods or something, just the way I think Apollo at least would've wanted...maybe?

If Mykage *hadn't* intervened, Mikono would've had a pet rabbit and Amata would've had a pet angel-wolfdog thing. However, Mykage did what he does and split Amata into two pieces, but to have enough raw material to work with he also had to throw his pet dog into the mix...and so that's where Kagura gets the beastwolf and Amata gets his wings?

Notably, this wouldn't say anything one way or the other about whether or not Amata (and Kagura, etc.) are or are not also reincarnations of (part of) Apollo...could it be?
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Old 2012-06-02, 19:50   Link #851
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Spoiler for Pollon:

Damn, even same magenta eyes like Amata.
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Old 2012-06-02, 20:35   Link #852
mayumi
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But the fur is bluish-green which is Zessica's hair. I already dread this dog theory and like it at the same time. I get the whole create a new legend but i am not a fan of dogs. Though Rena was one of my favourite Genesis character. Zessica's description also says she is like a cat.
I rather have her be Apollo and die than turn her into a dog or cat and humiliate her more. But she would really be the one fighting fate the most
Thankx Kawamori. You are a trolling king.

That Ephemera title doesn't really sound good. I can only think of Zessica's ending picture that fits this ephemera theme. Printed matter not intended to be retained or preserved.

The twist could be evol world itself is one where they are all animals. Not just amata and kagura but everyone.

Last edited by mayumi; 2012-06-02 at 23:56.
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Old 2012-06-02, 23:24   Link #853
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I'd be really surprised if it was true, but if it is, oh boy, oh boy.

In the end though all I really want is the show to be consistent and have a decent ending so that I can actually recommend it to other people in good faith rather than having to tell them 'yeah this was good up until about the 18th episode, don't bother watching it'.
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:00   Link #854
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I'm calling it now. Shushu is going to undergo TTGL Boota style evolution in the final ep :runs:

Amata: SHUSHU SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN *head explodes
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Old 2012-06-03, 07:49   Link #855
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IIRC, wasn't Rena from Genesis strongly hinted to be Pollon? And with the fangs Crea demonstrated recently I think it's safe to say she's Rena (or her reincarnation).

Anyway, I really just dropped by to say that the staff have said that this coming ep is where "the truth behind the history of 12000 and 24000 years ago will be talked about". It could mean that the reincarnation business will finally be cleared up.

Back to lurking I go. The subforum may continue it's usual character hatin', shippin', speculatin' and lolOkada/Kawamori.
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Old 2012-06-03, 19:13   Link #856
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IIRC, wasn't Rena from Genesis strongly hinted to be Pollon? And with the fangs Crea demonstrated recently I think it's safe to say she's Rena (or her reincarnation)i.
Thinking about that ep from genesis didn't the scene go Apollo calling out to Rena to come to him, then a quick image of Pollon , then Rena smiling? Remember she sees the world differently so in her eyes it was Pollon barking to her. Mind you that would mean ignoring all the other stuff . My head is starting to hurt.

At this point all I care about is Zessica getting killed its getting painfull to watch this show make her suffer.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:32   Link #857
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In the sequel, Mikono's reincarnation will be courted by Shushu's reincarnation who loved her all these 12.000 years!
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:37   Link #858
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Seriously Celiane needs to move the hell on. Next time she can reincatnate into a donut Fudo will eat and be with her lover forever.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:45   Link #859
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In the sequel, Mikono's reincarnation will be courted by Shushu's reincarnation who loved her all these 12.000 years!
I would pay to see it!

But it would be vicious, just vicious. ShuShu is an evil little devil: it would be the strongest challenger yet. Amata would get scratched in the face and give up...
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Old 2012-06-04, 03:12   Link #860
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If Zessica = Appolonius, could that also explain Zessica being in love with Amata?
If this becomes true later on, I can't help but think:

Hmmm... Apollonius feels jealous that his dog is all over his lover. So now that he's reincarnated as a woman, he plans to use his remarkable assets and open his legs to win back his precious Pollo. How romantic... ;_;
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