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Old 2012-06-03, 01:17   Link #61
ZODDGUTS
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She gets too much credit for Toradora. The novel was already great to begin with, yet people act as if she created that Torardora.

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I agree that the Hourou Musuoko adaptation was great - but having read the manga wire to wire (so far) I can tell you, all she did was remain very faithful to the manga. In took artfulness to distill the essence of a long manga into 12 eps, and full credit - but the tone, and the drama, and the power - that's all the mangaka.
Another work that was great to begin with as well.

The only work I really liked by her that wasn't an adaptation was True Tears, the rest not so much.
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:06   Link #62
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I'm pretty sure that Okada has taken her cues from the project "concept" on just about everything she's done. The question to me has always been what her scripts bring to the table.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Get a boyfriend? Not happening! In the words of Elaine Benes: "I'm not a lesbian - I just hate men."
Speaking personally, Okada's non-emasculated characters often end up being as lulzworthy as her emasculated ones, so I don't think she so much hates male characters as considers emasculation and the like a useful outlet for her "for the lulz" tendencies.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
So basically she does excellent dialogue and characters but she really needs to work on her ability to write plot because its just God damn awful.
Mmm... not sure I'd be quite so superlative about it, but yes, she's far stronger in characters and dialogue than plot. Her shows often seem to end on a bit of a weak note - even two of my favourites, Otome Youkai Zakuro (which had an anime original end IIRC) and Hanasaku Iroha suffer this to an extent. AnoHana also comes to mind.
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:12   Link #63
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I thought Iroha had the best endings of all her shows, tbh. But yea, sometimes it feels like she turned them in the last minute. MENMAAAA!!!
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:15   Link #64
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Speaking personally, Okada's non-emasculated characters often end up being as lulzworthy as her emasculated ones, so I don't think she so much hates male characters as considers emasculation and the like a useful outlet for her "for the lulz" tendencies.

I didn't say she hates male characters, Outfoxed - I said she hates men. Get it right!
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:59   Link #65
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Iroha ending was close to perfect for me and definitely the best out of what Okada has been involved in.
Spoiler for Hanasaku Iroha Spoilers:


Anohana ending was unintentionally funny.
Spoiler for Anohana Ending Spoiler:



On another note, I think this TVtrope sums up Okada:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...rollingCreator

Quick, someone add her to the wiki entry!
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Old 2012-06-03, 04:20   Link #66
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*Stares at clip and remembers* Ohana's an extremely cute character. It also seems like most of HSI's frame rate went into her.
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Old 2012-06-03, 04:48   Link #67
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Also, nobody here really knows what would have happened with AnoHana, or Hanasaku Iroha, if Okada wasn't available to write them. You don't know that, I don't know that, and totoum doesn't know that. It's at least conceivable that one or both of these shows may have not been made, and could have even been substituted with an adaptation work, without Okada's involvement.
Now,let's just admit you're right,that these two animes don't get made without okada (even though HSI had a team of writers working on it including True Tears' director who seems like a viable replacement)

That's two shows,out of a bunch of other anime originals,it's two of the most successful anime originals I'll give you that,but it's not their success that initiated the rise in anime originals,that was already happening regardless of those two shows.
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Old 2012-06-03, 08:50   Link #68
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If there's one criticism of Okada that i think even her biggest fans should admit to, it's yeah, she clearly has issues with men.

Hanasaku Iroha alone demonstrates that. There were plenty of male characters in that show, and by the end of it, the only one that wasn't emasculated and/or made to look bad was Tohru (well, and Beanman, but he was a pretty minor character).

Contrast that with most of the female cast that, by comparison, come out smelling like roses (especially the female lead Ohana of course).


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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
That's two shows,out of a bunch of other anime originals,it's two of the most successful anime originals I'll give you that,but it's not their success that initiated the rise in anime originals,that was already happening regardless of those two shows.

I never said that it was.

But it's obviously important for anime originals to sell well, or there will likely be less of them over time. Unlike with adaptation work, there's no "It bumped up sales of the source material" to fall back on if the anime original bombs when it comes to DVD/Blu-Ray sales. So the anime industry likely needs good, recent examples of well-selling anime originals in order to feel like the risk of making them continues to be worth it. Let's face it - It's a lot safer, commercially, to take a very popular source material like Persona 4 or a Type Moon/Key property and adapt it into anime then it is to create something brand new and hope it catches on. Even some adaptations of popular source material that are widely held as poor adaptations (Shana's second season, for example) still manage to sell well.

By writing two successful anime originals during a period where they were on the rise, Okada has helped ensure that this rise continues. She didn't initiate that rise, no, but she's helping it to continue. If nothing else, I doubt we'd be getting a HSI movie (which is itself an anime original) if the original HSI anime had bombed.
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Old 2012-06-03, 10:08   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If there's one criticism of Okada that i think even her biggest fans should admit to, it's yeah, she clearly has issues with men.
Well here's Okada herself about seeing live action action actors perform the black butler musical she wrote:

Quote:
-And what were your impressions after seeing the finished musical?
Okada - They were all such cool and handsome men (LOL). I'm not really good with 3D handsome men. But as soon as they wore the costumes they all turned into 2.5D and I thought "wow!".
There's also something else she said about the musical that I found interesting:

Quote:
even though my scenario was full of stupid things she (the director) managed to make it feel so high-quality and wonderful. I'm really grateful to her for her direction (LOL).
So Okada isn't in denial about writing stupid stuff.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R
I never said that it was.
Then I missunderstood you

I took

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R
And I'm not sure if we'd have as many anime originals over the past two years if not for Mari Okada.
As meaning she's the only reason as to why there was a rise in anime originals.

I'm not saying she hasn't achieved anything,but I don't why one should single her out when to me it's all been a team effort,I'm certain Nagai and Ando contributed to Ano Hana and HSI's success.Nagai went on to direct Ano Natsu as well showing he doesn't need Okada to find success.
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Old 2012-06-03, 10:20   Link #70
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
She gets too much credit for Toradora. The novel was already great to begin with, yet people act as if she created that Torardora.
I have to disagree. She took ten novels and compressed them into two cours with minimal damage to the story. Considering she did this with JC Staff at the same time they were butchering Zero no Tsukaima, I think she deserves immense credit.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If there's one criticism of Okada that i think even her biggest fans should admit to, it's yeah, she clearly has issues with men.

Hanasaku Iroha alone demonstrates that. There were plenty of male characters in that show, and by the end of it, the only one that wasn't emasculated and/or made to look bad was Tohru (well, and Beanman, but he was a pretty minor character).

Contrast that with most of the female cast that, by comparison, come out smelling like roses (especially the female lead Ohana of course).
Yeah, sure. That's a fair characterization. I mean, AKB0048 begins by establishing that the galaxy is ruled by an oppressive manocracy that hates girls doing girly things, so, yeah, it's a theme. But I don't see anything wrong with it. Considering the way female characters are so often treated in anime, if a female writer wants to do the reverse, more power to her.
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Old 2012-06-03, 10:41   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Considering she did this with JC Staff at the same time they were butchering Zero no Tsukaima, I think she deserves immense credit.
I can't even begin to comprehend statements like this, it's not like Nagai was directing Zero no Tsukaima.There's no major staff members in common between both projects.
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Old 2012-06-03, 10:51   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Well here's Okada herself about seeing live action action actors perform the black butler musical she wrote:

"-And what were your impressions after seeing the finished musical?
Okada - They were all such cool and handsome men (LOL). I'm not really good with 3D handsome men. But as soon as they wore the costumes they all turned into 2.5D and I thought "wow!"."
My my my Okada...

Now I'm imagining a fujioshi Okada proclaiming that 2D bishies > 3D men. No wonder she still doesn't have a bf yet and her script reflects that in the way she likes to emasculate every one of them in her stories .

Quote:
There's also something else she said about the musical that I found interesting:

"even though my scenario was full of stupid things she (the director) managed to make it feel so high-quality and wonderful. I'm really grateful to her for her direction (LOL)."
Dammit Okada! Stop writing silly campy stuff will ya and get back to writing good slice of life/drama whilst staying from comedy since you're awful at it!

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I'm not saying she hasn't achieved anything,but I don't why one should single her out when to me it's all been a team effort,I'm certain Nagai and Ando contributed to Ano Hana and HSI's success. Nagai went on to direct Ano Natsu as well showing he doesn't need Okada to find success.
Nagai definitely doesn't -need- Okada to reach success. Nagai directed the 2nd season of Honey and Clover with Kuroda on series composition, which the duo last season produced Ano Natsu.

Ando... Not sure about this guy. His debut as the chief director on Sword of the Stranger was amazing, but subsequent to this he hasn't really stood out. He directed a few episodes here and there for series like FMA (1st series), Wolf's Rain, Raxpheon and True Tears, but for work where he was the primary director (Canaan and Hanasaku Iroha), two of them were with Okada on script, with only the latter being successful. So that 2/3 series (soon to be 3/4 with the Iroha movie) that had Okada involved .
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Old 2012-06-03, 11:29   Link #73
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
As meaning she's the only reason as to why there was a rise in anime originals.
Well, of course she's not. All I meant was is that she's been helpful to that rise, and that rise might have been a little less pronounced or successful without her.

While Directors are important, probably most important for adaptation work, I don't think we should sell short the role of the head writer, especially for anime originals. A lot of the flaws people point out in shows like Guilty Crown and (admittedly ironically) Aquarion EVOL comes down to writing. Both Guilty Crown and EVOL have good-to-great Directing, IMO, but their writing doesn't match up as well.

Likewise, I have little doubt that a lot of the strengths of AnoHana and Hansaku Iroha comes down to writing.


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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Yeah, sure. That's a fair characterization. I mean, AKB0048 begins by establishing that the galaxy is ruled by an oppressive manocracy that hates girls doing girly things, so, yeah, it's a theme.
Well, it's a tiresome "theme". And it's not even a theme, really. It's just using fiction as a vehicle to bash men.


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But I don't see anything wrong with it.
Well, it's simply not enjoyable, at least in my opinion, to constantly see your gender bashed and made to look bad vis a vis the opposite gender (heck, this is probably the main reason why North American sitcoms lost me as a viewer a long time ago). So I would like to see Okada become more comfortable in writing strong, likable male characters.

I mean, isn't it good to see male protagonists that are actually worth rooting for? If you're going to have a lot of characters from both genders, then it might be nice to at least try to be a bit even-handed about it, and not cast one gender has drastically inferior to the other.


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Considering the way female characters are so often treated in anime,
You mean as the stars of the show that the viewer is meant to feel "moe" over?

I'm not saying that female characters are handled perfectly in anime, but they're handled a helluva lot better than how Okada handles her male characters, imo. At least moe girls get to be, well, moe. Which, for many anime fans, means much the same as "likeable". Okada's male characters are often total losers or douchebags where it's sometimes hard to find any redeemable traits at all.


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...if a female writer wants to do the reverse, more power to her.
The reverse would be a bishi-fest, where the guys are at least intended to be likable and "dreamy".
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Old 2012-06-03, 20:27   Link #74
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Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
She gets too much credit for Toradora. The novel was already great to begin with, yet people act as if she created that Torardora.
I always give credit for an adaptation on the anime writer rather than the novel writer, as it's the anime writer's job to transition from the written to the visual, and that's a lot harder than people think it is. Plus, the anime writer is allowed to change the material in order to update on the story's flaws and/or cut corners to fit the material within the span of episodes.

For example, while I think Fate/Zero the LN is great, I don't say the same for Fate/Zero the anime, because the transition isn't very good and it seriously needs an editing job. You can definitely see Gen Urobuchi's influence in the anime, but it feels more like someone copypasted his writing, and that's definitely not his fault.
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Old 2012-06-04, 07:29   Link #75
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Man, a particular line from the latest AKB0048 episode (ep 6) made me rofl so hard.

"The more popular and noticeable, the more haters they attract."

Is that an insert self-commentary Okada? In fact, that whole episode seemed like a meta episode about Okada's "haters". Oh god. It appears Okada thrives on the rage and tears of her haters. Man, Okada-san your ego is as large as our solar system

EDIT: Chieri is awesome in the way she tells all her colleagues to "harden the fuck up" and give a middle one too her haters. Main reason why I'm watching this rather "so bad it's good show". Hiromi (True Tears) ---> Tsuruko (Ano Hana) ---> Chieri (AKB0048). The lineage continues!

I think I liked the ep for the completely wrong reasons
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Old 2012-06-04, 08:10   Link #76
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
Is that an insert self-commentary Okada? In fact, that whole episode seemed like a meta episode about Okada's "haters". Oh god. It appears Okada thrives on the rage and tears of her haters.
She did try to nuance the message by saying

Quote:
That's right,the haters show you what you're missing

The message wasn't so much "hater's gonna hate, ignore them" but rather something like "hater's gonna hate,but I love and cherish them too!"
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Old 2012-06-04, 11:36   Link #77
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I really don't see the man-bashing in her works. If she was doing that intentionally it would be MUCH more prominent.

Also, am, am I really the only person who actually watched BRS and thought it was well-written?
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Old 2012-06-04, 11:47   Link #78
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Lol just caught wind of the latest happenings in Aquarion Evol. Glad Okada hasn't managed to get hired for anything I truly care about and certainly hope it stays that way.
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Old 2012-06-04, 12:49   Link #79
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
Man, a particular line from the latest AKB0048 episode (ep 6) made me rofl so hard.

"The more popular and noticeable, the more haters they attract."

Is that an insert self-commentary Okada? In fact, that whole episode seemed like a meta episode about Okada's "haters". Oh god. It appears Okada thrives on the rage and tears of her haters. Man, Okada-san your ego is as large as our solar system
It's funny because I've hating this show a lot and yet here is an episode entirely focused on haters. I couldn't even tell if it was actually trying to win me over or if it was trolling the hell out of me and that's just a horrible development. I can no longer tell when Okada is actually trolling or being serious.
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Old 2012-06-04, 13:23   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's funny because I've hating this show a lot and yet here is an episode entirely focused on haters. I couldn't even tell if it was actually trying to win me over or if it was trolling the hell out of me and that's just a horrible development. I can no longer tell when Okada is actually trolling or being serious.
Why a writer would feel the need to troll a fanbase is beyond me. I don't see what's to be gained from that sort of relationship with the people that are supposed to be your supporters. It's one thing to joke or maybe throw the odd reference to a bad experience into something (like Anno and his infamous wall of hate in End of Eva, remember when that was shocking and oh so controversial? Seems like a while ago eh folks?), but to just have this childish slapfight with the fans like Okada seems to be having of late spread across several differrent shows she's writing for breeds nothing but ill will and misgivings that will carry into the future. I don't think I've ever seen a more unprofessional staffer in my time as an anime fan as Okada is coming across.

I really hope this apparent fad of "trolling" with anime dies out sooner rather than later, especially since if it weren't for this occuring with some shows I'd be willing to argue that we're seeing some of the overall best anime being produced in a while this year. This trend though...really dragging down the averages almost singlehandedly.
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