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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 31 38.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 29.63%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 13.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 14.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 2.47%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-03, 23:12   Link #61
Ithekro
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Bad memories of Dune....

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Old 2012-06-03, 23:13   Link #62
Archer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I know what they're aiming for. The problem is, he acts detached "too well" to the point that I'm believing it. Or maybe the animation was bad during his scenes. Long story short, I'm not a fan of badasses that don't show emotion, and he barely escapes from that.

Yeah, Waver had weak motivations, but he strongly believed in them, which helped him become animated in the first half. And he's still my favorite to this day.
He does show plenty of emotion in this series whenever he's alone with Irisviel, including the very first scene of the series. The problem here might be that there's such a contrast between how he normally is and how he really feels that people might not remember the moments where he does show cracks in his armor.

You might want to rewatch the series again (blu-ray version, preferrably) after everything is over and you probably would discover more to Kiritsugu's character than you would've seen the first time around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it is not the animation, the majority of Kiri's characterization comes form monologues. Unless you want o listen to Kiri talking to himself for a entire ep...
Actually, majority of Kiritsugu's characterization in the novels comes from the third-person narration, which can't be translated into animation without a similar third-person narrator. Instead, they use his character expressions when he's alone to indicate that there's something wrong with him when he's actively working. It's rather subtle.
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Old 2012-06-03, 23:25   Link #63
vansonbee
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It looks like the 4 last contestants are fighting consecutively at the same time. I previously thought Rider was the first to go in this episode. Now its pretty much set that Archer vs. Rider and Saber vs. Berserker in the last few.

I like the homo moments between Waver & Rider. Its sort of like a death flag, when he spent all his commands. Reminds me of Aladdin and the Gennie.

Spoiler for Milf Orgy:
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Old 2012-06-03, 23:44   Link #64
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And Irisviel gets the Gundam styled fate for heroines. Horrible death followed by naked trippy void space time.
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Old 2012-06-04, 00:20   Link #65
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Speaking of the Grail, there's literally only one Servant and one Master that's actually serious about having their wishes granted, and that's Saber and Kiritsugu.

Tokiomi simply wants to reach the root, which forgoes the wish-granting ability of the Grail entirely. Archer only wants the Grail because he believes its his.
Kayneth wants recognition through this war, and Lancer wants to be able to serve someone successfully.
Waver also wants recognition, and Rider wants the Grail just because it's there to take.
Kirei has nothing he wants. Nobody cares about Assassin.
Kariya wants the wars to end so that Sakura can be free. Berserker seems to only care about attacking Saber.
Caster and Uryuu have no interest in the whole thing at all.

Kiritsugu needs the Grail to bring about world peace since he will never be able to free himself from his cycle of death otherwise. Saber needs the Grail to give her country a better future.
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Old 2012-06-04, 00:32   Link #66
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Nobody cares about Assassin.
To be precise, Assassin's goal is (ironically) to be recognized after several lifetimes of obscurity.

But yeah. Nobody gives Assassin any love.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:01   Link #67
Shiryuu
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I thought only Archers are able to stay for an extended period without masters? Rider isn't going to last long especially against Gilgamesh.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:03   Link #68
mAc Chaos
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He still has Waver giving him mana, I think. He just doesn't have the seals, which are just orders to control an unruly Servant or help achieve an order. But he's still Rider's Master in the sense that he's keeping him in the world and supplied.

Not sure though, it's ambiguous.
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Old 2012-06-04, 02:17   Link #69
willyvereb
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^
Well,
Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
Rider still has his own, albeit now somewhat depleted, prana pool.

Besides, using up all 3 Command Spells doesn't mean one stops being a Master. They just cannot control their Servant anymore.
I've already answered that one.
Losing the Command Spells really just means what the name implies.
Waver cannot control Rider anymore.
On the other hand their connection still exists, inclding Rider's anchor to the physical world.
He doesn't need Independent Action skill to remain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
I thought only Archers are able to stay for an extended period without masters? Rider isn't going to last long especially against Gilgamesh.
It's the specialty of the Archer class yet there are instances when different Servants have the same skill.

For example Rider (FSN) has B class Independent Action. Comparable to Archer from Fate/Stay Night
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Old 2012-06-04, 04:09   Link #70
jeroz
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So the last 3 episodes would be the 2 semis and the one grand final and the award ceremony?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Waver also wants recognition, and Rider wants the Grail just because it's there to take.
I thought Rider wanted to use the wish to truly materialise in the world and takes the burden off Waver?
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Last edited by jeroz; 2012-06-04 at 04:27.
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Old 2012-06-04, 06:45   Link #71
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Hopefully we cut down on the remaining players by the next episode. This was somewhat slow for an episode so close to the end.

I'll bring my box of tissues with me next episode as well because people gonna die when they are killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
And Irisviel gets the Gundam styled fate for heroines. Horrible death followed by naked trippy void space time.
I know eh D: WTF
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Old 2012-06-04, 11:11   Link #72
klare
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Iris may lost her body, her spirit seems still around, and her flashback is quite horrible
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Old 2012-06-04, 17:30   Link #73
Grey
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
I thought Rider wanted to use the wish to truly materialise in the world and takes the burden off Waver?
The first part is right: he wants to materialize. Said he wanted to conquer the world as a true flesh and blood person. Being a Servant made of mana isn't good enough for him.
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Old 2012-06-04, 18:39   Link #74
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
^
Well,

I've already answered that one.
Losing the Command Spells really just means what the name implies.
Waver cannot control Rider anymore.
On the other hand their connection still exists, inclding Rider's anchor to the physical world.
He doesn't need Independent Action skill to remain.
I could have sworn using or losing all of the spells meant you weren't a Master anymore.
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Old 2012-06-04, 18:46   Link #75
GDB
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Nope, it's just that I guess usually using them all means you and your Servant don't see eye-to-eye on much at all. With nothing left to control them, you'sa gonna get knifed.
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Old 2012-06-04, 20:15   Link #76
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Nope, it's just that I guess usually using them all means you and your Servant don't see eye-to-eye on much at all. With nothing left to control them, you'sa gonna get knifed.
And most of the time, using all three Command Spells equates to an unhappy Servant, so it's like giving your contract to someone else to rip up if they want. Haha.
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Old 2012-06-04, 23:48   Link #77
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:34   Link #78
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Tokiomi simply wants to reach the root, which forgoes the wish-granting ability of the Grail entirely. Archer only wants the Grail because he believes its his.
The grail original purpose is to open a path to reach the Root (or recover one of the great sorceries).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Rider wants the Grail just because it's there to take.
Rider wants the grail to be reborn as human again, so he can continue where he left. I could say something else, but naah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Kirei has nothing he wants.
Kirei wants to destroy Kiritsugu's wish. Gilgamesh wants to give the Grail to Kirei so he can figure out his wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Caster and Uryuu have no interest in the whole thing at all.
You're wrong. They had wishes. Gilles wanted to see Jeanne again. He thought that was Arturia because he was nuts. Uryuu had no clue about it, so he didn't care, but he did have a wish (see his guts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Kiritsugu needs the Grail to bring about world peace since he will never be able to free himself from his cycle of death otherwise. Saber needs the Grail to give her country a better future.
Saber wants to change the past to prevent the fall of her kingdom, there's nothing that tells it'll bring a 'better future'. Both Saber's and Kiritsugu's wishes are pretty dangerous since one will erase over 1000 years of human history out of inability to get over your own fail and the other is a manchild's fantasy that can potentially destroy free will and humanity itself. Just as Kirei put it "any sensible adult" wouldn't do that. In the end, Caster team wishes were the more harmless looking despite all the appearances. While the 'protagonist' team has wishes that endanger the world, even if they look noble in theory.
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Old 2012-06-05, 20:00   Link #79
Triple_R
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Awesome episode.

This is how you do a "setup" episode. Just picture-perfect setup into the final battle(s).

I haven't been posting much on Fate/Zero, but I have been following it pretty regularly.

What I've really liked about the recent Fate/Zero episodes is the balance within them.

Yes, you have your "Dark Tragedy" bits, this being what a lot of people tend to associate with 'Gen Urobuchi'. Those bits have been very compelling, in a way similar to a Greek or Shakespearean Tragedy.

But if that was all that Fate/Zero was giving us, I think I'd find this show overly depressing or overly one-dimensional. But that's not all that Fate/Zero is giving us.


You also have action scenes and conflicts that are glorious in and of themselves, simply on the level of pure spectacle and "coolness".

And, amazingly given who the writer is, you have some scenes in this that actually strike me as a bit heartwarming. A lot of the Waver scenes in this episode were genuinely heartwarming. The friendship that's taken off between Rider and Waver is truly a joy to behold.

Now, I don't expect it to end well for Rider/Waver, and I'm not overly hopeful of Waver getting out of this alive, but even so, I think my memories of these two characters will be almost entirely good ones. Should Waver die (I don't know if he does or not, I haven't read the source material) I will find that pretty sad, but I don't think it would erase all the excellent character development I've seen for him, or take a lot away from the bond he's made with Rider.

Rider and Waver truly have been the 'ying' to Fate/Zero's general 'yang'; the gregarious light that made sure the show never got too dark for its own good.


But then, the darker bits are very well-executed. Speaking of which, I loved the NGE-esque handling of Irisviel. That was masterfully handled by ufotable.


10/10 for Fate/Zero Episode 22. I look forward to the concluding episodes.
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Old 2012-06-06, 00:05   Link #80
Guido
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The more I watched Waver spending one last happy night chatting with the old man on the roof the more I know it'll become harder for me to eventually say goodbye to both he and Rider when this show finally ends in about three to four weeks time.

Without question, Rider and Waver's relationship succeeded the most at becoming the most bountiful amongst all of Master-Servant relationship maturing from that level to the level of friends and comrades, as they demonstrated in this episode.

That's how you put creative writing at succeeding to make a setup episode before the grand finalé.
Spoiler:


It would also be hard for me to say good-bye to Emiya Kiritsugu once Fate zero ends, because throughout the run of the show he was revealed to be a flawed person just like the rest of us with all facets of his personality properly fleshed or discussed about, including his past.
Spoiler:


I believe Kirei gives too much credit to Kiritsugu failing to see that he's just like any other man; he's overestimating Kiritsugu's nature, or maybe his expectations toward Kiritsugu were lowered once learning that latter's wish from Irisviel.
It's like the writers were trying to say that a person who has lost everyone can or not ever understand a person who never had anyone from the beginning, however, the reverse isn't true.

Spoiler for Irisviel:
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