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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 12 18.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 13 20.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 12.31%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 4.62%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.62%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 6.15%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 3.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.54%
1 out of 10 : Painful 18 27.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-05, 00:48   Link #301
Destined_Fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskatar View Post
Apollonious' soul is Aquarion, at any rate.
And if he's also Fudo as well than why is he encourageing his girlfriend to get with his dog again? Especially since Fudo is always there with Mikono and always watching over her? Freaky....
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Old 2012-06-05, 00:50   Link #302
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
On the other hand, I'm still not seeing what sort of essential plot purpose makes this twist beyond an elaborate seven-year troll spanning two series.
It's hard to say. If it's not just "Hahahah, suckers!" it could be there to show that believing in destined lovers throughout the ages is not a good idea, that it's not a good enough reason to believe you should be with someone, and you need to think of people as the person they are now. In this, we can draw a parallel between what Amata says about loving Mikono as she is now, and Kagura who believes or has been brainwashed into believing that it's all because of destiny. As well as that, Amata and Zessica have spent a decent quantity of EVOL angsting about believing that Mikono and Kagura were fated lovers.

But were they really destined? Apollo and Silvia just promised to meet again in the next life. The cycle that we thought was Celiane and Apollonius always falling in love again due to fate got broken before we even knew it.

I can't quite remember myself, but Fudo and perhaps others (In Sousei) have apparently made a point of saying that the characters shouldn't be getting too hung up about their past lives.

The king of getting caught up obsessively about the past is Mykage(/Toma). He's an extreme example. I can't see EVOL getting a satisfying ending without finally resolving his issues. It's going to a real groaner if it ends with "And Toma was defeated, but he'll be back next time, even angrier".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskatar View Post
I mean in Genesis. Apollo's the reincarnation of the winged hound. In the first episode, he called Vector Sol and it responded. Why? We all thought it was because he was Apollonious, but it turns out he's not.
That's a difficult one. I hope they'll explain it (via explaining why Kagura can do it).

The only things I can think of so far are that Apollo wasn't all Pollon, but that he had some part of Apollonius merged with him, however small. Or perhaps Apollonius for some reason gave Pollon power to access Aquarion. I was joking earlier about him leaving Pollon the car keys, but perhaps he did. It could even have been an accident.

Another possibility is that the vector did that because Apollonius was responding to Pollon's soul. It doesn't have to be a power that Pollon possesses himself.
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Old 2012-06-05, 00:54   Link #303
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by Iskatar View Post
Kwhy the hell is a dog able to call forth Aquarion?
Pollon may look like a dog but he is a Shadow Angel like Apollonius. The one that joined him leaving the Shadow Angels siding with the humans.

Apollo said to Rena to stop hiding and come out. What we saw is a vision of howling Pollon and a vision that Apollonius responds.

Spoiler:


Any piece of Apollonius whether the Aquarion, Fudo or Rena responds to his friends.

In the OVA the reincarnations of Pollon, Scorpius and Celiane being together called forth Aquarion to protect them. (Apollo, Reika and Celiane)

In the TV series and Evol the Aquarion responded to Apollo/Amata and Silvia/Mikono.

In the original Aquarion it always emphasized on the partnership of the Element pilots. Celiane may have been Apollonius lover but he has a partner in Pollon.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:05   Link #304
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Pollon may look like a dog but he is a Shadow Angel like Apollonius. The one that joined him leaving the Shadow Angels siding with the humans.

Apollo said to Rena to stop hiding and come out. What we saw is a vision of howling Pollon and a vision that Apollonius responds.

Any piece of Apollonius whether the Aquarion, Fudo or Rena responds to his friends.

In the OVA the reincarnations of Pollon, Scorpius and Celiane being together called forth Aquarion to protect them. (Apollo, Reika and Celiane)

In the TV series and Evol the Aquarion responded to Apollo/Amata and Silvia/Mikono.

In the original Aquarion it always emphasized on the partnership of the Element pilots. Celiane may have been Apollonius lover but he has a partner in Pollon.
That actually makes Apollonius sound really sweet. (I still find it hard to think that about someone who's an ex-mass-murderer...) It makes sense.

I like the Aquarion-Fudo-Rena theory a lot right now, because it explains some of the things in Genesis and EVOL, and also because we were given the information about body-heart-soul splits. We must have been given the info for a reason, but none of the main characters in EVOL have turned out to have such a split. If it's a three way split of Apollonius, it works.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:16   Link #305
Destined_Fate
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It doesn't change that they outright lied to fans of the series and trolled Genesis fans majorly. They creators the ones that pushed the Apollonius and Celiane love affair, an don't even say they didn't, than 7 years later they go and say "Oh yeah that? We never planned that. It was always about that stupid dog no one really cared about and his one sided love for his Master's lover.".

Also what message does it send if Mikono and Amata still end up together? It doesn't change that they made a promise through Apollo and Silvia and made their own fate/destiny even if it was under false pretenses. That doesn't support your message at all if that's the case. Especially since Amata is "very" hung up over his past lives and is taking the love his Dog self had, 24,000 years ago, very seriously and has caused a lot of issues for everyone.

Further this makes fighting fate even dumber since Apollo and Silvia already made their own fate to be together even if, again, it was under false pretenses and they actually thought that Apollo was Apollonius.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:21   Link #306
Iskatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
That actually makes Apollonius sound really sweet. (I still find it hard to think that about someone who's an ex-mass-murderer...) It makes sense.

I like the Aquarion-Fudo-Rena theory a lot right now, because it explains some of the things in Genesis and EVOL, and also because we were given the information about body-heart-soul splits. We must have been given the info for a reason, but none of the main characters in EVOL have turned out to have such a split. If it's a three way split of Apollonius, it works.
That's true. A huge part of Aquarion is centered around the unification of the heart, soul, and body after all. I can somewhat see Apollonious' essence splitting into three parts when he died. Assuming he also died in the Aquarion in the TV series, his soul never really did reincarnate and merely stayed inside the Aquarion while his heart and body moved on.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:24   Link #307
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post

Further this makes fighting fate even dumber since Apollo and Silvia already made their own fate to be together even if, again, it was under false pretenses and they actually thought that Apollo was Apollonius.
Actually they didn't care anymore of the past lives. Apollo and Silvia fell in love on their own.

Even Silvia said to Otoha she isn't Celiane anymore but Silvia descendant of Apollonius.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:29   Link #308
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Actually they didn't care anymore of the past lives. Apollo and Silvia fell in love on their own.

Even Silvia said to Otoha she isn't Celiane anymore but Silvia descendant of Apollonius.
Yet they still make a promise to meet together in another life which as resulted in many fail moments from Amata, Kagura, and Mikono because of said promise. Not really setting a good example or message, huh?
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:35   Link #309
GoldenLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Also what message does it send if Mikono and Amata still end up together? It doesn't change that they made a promise through Apollo and Silvia and made their own fate/destiny even if it was under false pretenses. That doesn't support your message at all if that's the case. Especially since Amata is "very" hung up over his past lives and is taking the love his Dog self had, 24,000 years ago, very seriously and has caused a lot of issues for everyone.
Well, remember the fight between Kagura and Amata. Kagura said something implying that he wanted his, uh, Sylvie because they were destined, and Amata made a point of saying that he loves Mikono for who she is now and not who she used to be. I suppose what they are doing is drawing a parallel between a "good" reason to love someone and a "bad" reason. That goes regardless of the dog plot twist.

Amata didn't even know until ep 23 that he was Apollo himself. He hasn't been hung up over his own past life but over what he thought Mikono and Kagura's were. (Yeah, with Kagura being Amata that gets messed up, but Amata didn't know that.)

Maybe what we are getting as the true message of EVOL is "make your own fate". Fudo has been saying that to the supporting cast. He showed them that blank page in the book.
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Old 2012-06-05, 01:49   Link #310
Destined_Fate
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That fight was stupid because up to that point Amata was all sunshines and rainbows with him being destined for Mikono and her to him. So really, it changes nothing and was them argueing schematics, and even that seemed forced because Amata didn't care up to that point because he's fated to be with her anyway, when they both are going for the same exact thing.

Yes he was hung up over it. Even though he didn't know "Who" he was he did know that that 12,000 promise and fate and destiny along with soulmates being promised for each other which means he was totally gonna get with Mikono because fate/destiny was on his side right? Which, like I said, he was totally fine with it until his Other half started argueing with him over who was more destined to be with her which in itself was really stupid since they're the same person.

It isn't making their own fate since, you know, they're reincarnations of past lovers and are trying to recreate that fate by getting back together again.

The only way they would be able to fight fate, and make their own destines, is if Mikono doesn't get with either of them which is doubtful. So even the dog revelation doesn't change how poorly written this whole fighting fate thing is. Especially since only Zessica is fighting fate and they're kicking the crap out of her every week and reminding everyone that fighting fate never ends well.
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:10   Link #311
Dissix
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I just want to say, that I' am almost certain the author has a reason for all this, unless he really does want to lose all his fan base, I'm pretty sure there is still somethings left unsaid.

Does anyone find it weird, that mikono would only apologize to Kagura? I mean isn't amata the other half of the dog?So why not apologize to him aswell? Oh wait maybe he really is apollonius and fudo is just trolling.

Finally, I' am almost 100% sure that apollonius was reincarnated into apollo, maybe the dog aswell(which would make more sense then just the dog). Anyways they can not disregard all the evidence they have of apollonius being reincarnated into apollo, because then Evol, should not have any connection to the first season to begin with
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:21   Link #312
Dissix
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Mykage hates Amata because he is the dog that trolled him.

Correction he says he hates Kagura(or something along those lines), he never said he hated Amata, I think he says it at the end of episode 22 for the preview of episode 23
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:32   Link #313
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by Dissix View Post
I just want to say, that I' am almost certain the author has a reason for all this, unless he really does want to lose all his fan base, I'm pretty sure there is still somethings left unsaid.

Does anyone find it weird, that mikono would only apologize to Kagura? I mean isn't amata the other half of the dog?So why not apologize to him aswell? Oh wait maybe he really is apollonius and fudo is just trolling.

Finally, I' am almost 100% sure that apollonius was reincarnated into apollo, maybe the dog aswell(which would make more sense then just the dog). Anyways they can not disregard all the evidence they have of apollonius being reincarnated into apollo, because then Evol, should not have any connection to the first season to begin with
They can still salvage things and say that Apollonius and Pollon merged because of their love for Celiane and easily have Amata have some Apollonius in him. Still throws out their fighting destiny plot point(And weird he would fuse with his dog considering he only promised Celiane and himself not Celiane, him, and his dog) but that doesn't seem salvageable at all if they're intent on going with fate and end with a Mikono x Amagura.

They can disregard anything they want, if this Pollon thing is truely how things went down than it's too late to say they wouldn't do that since they just did.
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:33   Link #314
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Pollon may look like a dog but he is a Shadow Angel like Apollonius. The one that joined him leaving the Shadow Angels siding with the humans.
No, it's just a dog. All Angels have a specific naming (except for Apollonius, though even he was called "Angel of Massacre"). It's "Angel X, Name" - like Touma was Seitenshi Touma, Holy Angel Touma. Pollon is just called "winged dog". (I'd been wondering why Mykage's name doesn't fit the theme, but at least that was explained in this ep.) The drama CD info that someone posted earlier (before this ep), the only piece of canon where Pollon seems to have been named before Evol, mentions that he was Apollonius' and Celiane's pet. So, dog. They also had fairies and stuff in Atlandia, there were more than just angels there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
In the original Aquarion it always emphasized on the partnership of the Element pilots. Celiane may have been Apollonius lover but he has a partner in Pollon.
It would've been nice if someone told Celiane, though. All the time she/Silvia never realized that the person she was in love with wasn't who she thought he was. I think this is not sweet, more like pretty skeevy. (Watch them not even addressing this issue in any forthcoming interviews. )

Btw I think it's a good indicator of how well Genesis foreshadowed this twist (I'm being sarcastic here) that the Japanese wiki page for Genesis (the TV series) has just added any substantial information on Pollon, and this info is only what we learned in Evol (before it was just "a dog"). The page for the OVA still doesn't mention him except for that drama CD I mentioned above, which is I think the only place the dog was ever actually named before Evol.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-06-05 at 02:46.
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:41   Link #315
pingva
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It's a retcon. The dog in series was shown like only for 2 seconds in still shots, no name or anything. Apollo had no physical wings as Amata. Why Apollo was even able to call Aquarion? The what's the point of Apollonius?
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Old 2012-06-05, 02:47   Link #316
Thess
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Originally Posted by Dissix View Post
Correction he says he hates Kagura(or something along those lines), he never said he hated Amata, I think he says it at the end of episode 22 for the preview of episode 23
No, he hates Amata. That's why he split him. Both of them are Apollo. Kagura is Amata. It's spelled aloud in Fudo's explanation and the director's interview published before the episode aired, iirc. The dog Pollon's wings = Amata. The rest = Kagura.
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Old 2012-06-05, 04:54   Link #317
HiiroKun
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
They can still salvage things and say that Apollonius and Pollon merged because of their love for Celiane and easily have Amata have some Apollonius in him. Still throws out their fighting destiny plot point(And weird he would fuse with his dog considering he only promised Celiane and himself not Celiane, him, and his dog) but that doesn't seem salvageable at all if they're intent on going with fate and end with a Mikono x Amagura.

They can disregard anything they want, if this Pollon thing is truely how things went down than it's too late to say they wouldn't do that since they just did.

--Agreed, that should pretty ease the mind of Disappointed minds of Appolonius-Celiane fans..Oh please Kawamori-sama
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Old 2012-06-05, 05:01   Link #318
HiiroKun
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Well played Kawamori. Well fucking played. Biggest WTF moment ever with the Pollon reveal, but from what little I remember of the original, it all makes sense in hindsight. I mean, Apollo runs like a dog for crying out loud, and from the beginning I was suspicious that Apollonius gets reincarnated into someone named Apollo (big RED HERRING alert there but I paid it no mind).

But what next? Mix simply in deep sleep and Mixy REALLY is her other world counterpart?

What I'm more interested in is Zessica and her role here (no surprise there, as I love Zessica the most). Why is Mikage seem so looking forward into getting her pregnant with Amata? Assuming it is Amata he wants her to have a child with, considering that he promised Zessica would get what she wanted all along.

Maybe, just maybe, Apollonius and Apollo both get reincarnated into Amata. So when Mikage split the original Amata, Amata retains the Apollonius side (with light wings) while Kagura gets the Pollon side (complete with dog/wolf sniffing senses and all).

After all, the warnings before have ALWAYS labelled KaguraXMikono as 'forbidden love' (reference to CelianeXPollon?) but made no scene when its AmataXMikono (because its the 'proper' pairing via ApolloniusXCeliane?).

Thus Mikage has always been pushing for Kagura (Pollon) to seek out Mikono (Celiane), in order for him to be with Amata (Apollonius) through Zessica's body.


....or I might just be wrong and that Fudo and/or the Solar Aquarion has been Apollonius all along. Honestly, with the plot twist bombs dropped left and right, ANYTHING can be a possiblity.

--Brightest idea to resolve this mindfucked Evol..
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Old 2012-06-05, 05:45   Link #319
Akari Misaki
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I'm curious to see how's apollo (and sylvia) reaction to this terifying news...
and hope terada will fix this mess later


I'll still follow this series just to know how's the story goes for future reference, and songs
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Old 2012-06-05, 06:06   Link #320
genjo sanzo
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Mikage needs Amata too to destroy both of them. Pollon/Apollo is Amata Sora as was born from Alicia, then he needed a dark side to bring Mikono back on Altair and then Amata.
Mikage wants to destroy Mikono (Silvia/Celiane) and Amagura making them suffering a lot, they're fighting for the same love. Now it's a full revenge story.
Where's Mikage solid body? He's just a shadow or whatever?

After the latest revelations, seems to me, Amata looks different. He's shocked about the dog revelation, he's not quite sure anymore about fighting fate.
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