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Old 2012-06-03, 17:55   Link #1061
Peanutbutter
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Seems like my information on the new characters was wrong, particularly Kirame.

Oh well.
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Old 2012-06-03, 22:47   Link #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Well, that's basically a question for Saki abilities in general. Logically, one would assume that the tile order in the wall should be set at the start of the game and that it would be impossible to change that, i.e. such that (for example, for Kasumi's ability to draw one suit) all of the souzu are set every 4th tile so Kasumi can draw them; but then this would mean that abilities like that could be invalidated by disrupting the draw order. However, none of the abilities like Yuu's, Kuro's, Kasumi's which are based on drawing lots of a certain set of tiles have shown yet that they can be influenced/disrupted by calls, etc. Basically, they seem to be able to keep on drawing all the doras/warm tiles/single suit tiles etc. regardless of who changes the drawing order. Which is just crazy.

But if we accept that this is happening, accordingly, like you said there are essentially two possible explanations for it. One is that the tile order is not set at all, so that within the wall the position of none of the tiles is certain and that when it is necessary (due to some players ability, or etc.) that one type of tile comes up (i.e. Toyone's winning pursuit riichi tile) the ability then shifts the order of the tiles around so the needed player gets it. Alternatively, the other explanation is that the tile order is completely set beforehand, even taking into account all of the calls/changes to the drawing order which will be made, by all of the abilities, so that for the abilities to succeed it is practically like all of them have the ability to unconsciously control/predict the future.

Either way it's kinda too crazy to think about. It's basically like quantum physics or something.
Then we find out the mahjong tournament is just for training psychic powers for the next generation.
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Old 2012-06-03, 23:12   Link #1063
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
But if we accept that this is happening, accordingly, like you said there are essentially two possible explanations for it. One is that the tile order is not set at all, so that within the wall the position of none of the tiles is certain and that when it is necessary (due to some players ability, or etc.) that one type of tile comes up (i.e. Toyone's winning pursuit riichi tile) the ability then shifts the order of the tiles around so the needed player gets it. Alternatively, the other explanation is that the tile order is completely set beforehand, even taking into account all of the calls/changes to the drawing order which will be made, by all of the abilities, so that for the abilities to succeed it is practically like all of them have the ability to unconsciously control/predict the future.

Either way it's kinda too crazy to think about. It's basically like quantum physics or something.
I'm more inclined to believe the former possibility.

The way I see it, "luck" is an actual measurable attribute in the Saki-verse that affects the draws you get. It's somewhat like the Saki game for the PSP where the tile positions aren't already fixed from the beginning, but are instead affected by the abilities of the various players. In short, high level mahjong battles in this setting simply amounts to clashes between the luck-based mahjong powers of different players.

On another note, much blood will be shed in the coming weeks courtesy of our goddess, Miyanaga Teru.
Spoiler for :
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Old 2012-06-04, 00:55   Link #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
Then we find out the mahjong tournament is just for training psychic powers for the next generation.
WRONG. If you think that Saki is set in the same universe as The Legend of Koizumi, then everything makes a whole lot of sense. They're not looking for skilled players; they're narrowing down the kids that one day might become world leaders. :P

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Old 2012-06-04, 07:36   Link #1065
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Mahjong in Saki is what we call "reality bending" There is no way it can be explain with luck.

Like Kuro's ability.

If I have to explain "how is it possible?", I would say that in the begining of each round, all dora tiles are magically pre-placed in position that Kuro will self-draw all of them.

However, this can't explain how can she still get all of dora-s after draw order changed or how can she suddenly able to draw up all new dora tiles when new dora indicator appeared . Those tiles cannot be pre-placed right?

Now, tell me how is this logically possible? or how can this happend by "luck"?

Seriously, these girl power might be able to switch position of tiles in the wall.
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Old 2012-06-04, 08:19   Link #1066
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Now, tell me how is this logically possible? or how can this happend by "luck"?

Seriously, these girl power might be able to switch position of tiles in the wall.
I guess it depends on how you define "luck".

I mean, if you define it as the ability to manipulate the tile order before the game starts, then it would indeed be inconsistent with what we've seen so far. On the other hand, if you define it as the ability to draw the tiles you need regardless of then initial tile order, then there's no problem with the idea.

The way I see it, the Saki-verse pretty much does away with the notion that an initial tile order even exists in the first place, which is to say that the positions of all the tiles are perpetually uncertain unless drawn. Instead, draws are determined purely by some interaction between probability and "luck", which is sometimes alternately labeled as "reality bending" or "lesbian haxx".
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Old 2012-06-05, 11:00   Link #1067
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Hmm, I have been thinking this for a while but Teru's Mirror ability seems to be unnecessary and very optional

I mean.. doesn't everyone can learn about other players by just looking at their match records/video record?

Well, I accept that some abilities like Momo's ability can't be noticed from match records or video record ,but still, most of abilities can be noticed.

For me, it's just something to save Teru's time from watching match records/video record.

Also, I like that Teru's ability is supportive type not offensive. In this way, it shows that Teru use her pure mahjong skill when making a hand or planning to do something. She can kick monster ass without using any direct ability. That's 100x time more awesome than directly destory her opponent with special ability like Saki.

At first, I thought that "What?? Teru gameplay should be more "colorful" than this, it looks so normal" but after reading ch.9-10, I think this is the best way to show the "strongest" player.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2012-06-05 at 23:29.
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Old 2012-06-05, 21:38   Link #1068
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
At first, I thought that "What?? Teru gameplay should be more "colorful" than this, it looks so normal" but after reading ch.9-10, I think this is the best way to show the "strongest" player.
She summons a tornado from her arm, how more "colorful" can you get?

But yeah, I agree that style suits Teru the best because of how brutal it is. You are being slowly but certainly destroyed and there isn't a single thing you can do about it unless you magically join forces with the others at the table, like Toki and Kirame did, and even then you're just briefly postponing the inevitable. It's coming, you know it's coming, any talent you have may as well not exist, and you can't just stand up and leave.

It's torture. Plain and simple.
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Old 2012-06-05, 22:03   Link #1069
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Torture ... agreed.

Just like when Koromo takes control of the table and slowly destroys and frustrates you by dragging everyone to the bottom of the sea and then suddenly going crazy with high value hands achieved after only 2 or 3 go-rounds. -_-

With Koromo the solution was for Saki to stealthily take control of the table back while the former was "not looking". Perhaps something similar would work with Teru? Either that or not letting her "see you" in the first place (like, say, having Sakura petals swirling around you and obstructing her vision of you (or others?) in her mirrors. Of course this is more of a poetic image here of a certain person's special powers manifesting themselves, if you will.

Such a thing might work with Saki (or perhaps even the sad, frightened looking woman who decimated the coach of Achiga who had all the paisley looking things cascading around her whenever she's shown), but ... umm ... I wouldn't at all be surprised if both Yuuki and Kuro had their heads handed to them....
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Old 2012-06-05, 22:29   Link #1070
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Torture ... agreed.

Just like when Koromo takes control of the table and slowly destroys and frustrates you by dragging everyone to the bottom of the sea and then suddenly going crazy with high value hands achieved after only 2 or 3 go-rounds. -_-

With Koromo the solution was for Saki to stealthily take control of the table back while the former was "not looking". Perhaps something similar would work with Teru? Either that or not letting her "see you" in the first place (like, say, having Sakura petals swirling around you and obstructing her vision of you (or others?) in her mirrors. Of course this is more of a poetic image here of a certain person's special powers manifesting themselves, if you will.

Such a thing might work with Saki (or perhaps even the sad, frightened looking woman who decimated the coach of Achiga who had all the paisley looking things cascading around her whenever she's shown), but ... umm ... I wouldn't at all be surprised if both Yuuki and Kuro had their heads handed to them....
Kuro will never be the same and Yuuki is dead, simple as that. Hell, Yuuki already sucks outside the east round, how much of a chance do you think she has?

I think your suggested method would be kind of an overkill, even by saki standards. To me Teru's ability seems tailor made to clash against Saki's, to see who can control the table faster and strike harder. Other than that, Teru's demon mirror probably doesn't work on normal players (emphasis on "probably") and it definetly won't work on Nodoka because she has no ability on her own, she just denies everyone else's. On the other hand, though, Nodoka can't just deny Teru's rollout attack because it's not based in presence or intimidation, it's pure brute force. No matter how skeptical she is, she wouldn't be able to overlook Teru's growing winning streak even if she doesn't even bother to look at her face.
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Old 2012-06-08, 00:41   Link #1071
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Well the way I see it, there are some abilities that can give you certain knowledge or limited prediction and there are some abilities that will help give you certain tiles or alter the tiles that you or your opponent draw. And there might be certain abilities that do both.

For example:
Toki's ability belongs firmly to the former category which is predicting the next go round or turn.

If we say Toyone's ability alter the tiles that the opponent will get to the tile needed to complete Toyone's hand. Then, Toyone's pursuit riichi belongs to the latter category. Hell even if Toyone's ability give her a tenpai hand for the tile that Toki will draw, its still in the latter category.

Quote:
With Koromo the solution was for Saki to stealthily take control of the table back while the former was "not looking". Perhaps something similar would work with Teru? Either that or not letting her "see you" in the first place (like, say, having Sakura petals swirling around you and obstructing her vision of you (or others?) in her mirrors. Of course this is more of a poetic image here of a certain person's special powers manifesting themselves, if you will.
That's a very nice image. Saki's presence at the table is strange as you've said Saki has a habit of metaphorically disappearing just like in the latest match. I think most of her opponents forgot that she existed until she did something.

But, on the other hand, I sometimes feel that Saki is too distracting when she actually does something. Koromo concentrated too much on Saki that she allowed other player's to win. In your flowery imagery, I suppose the opponent concentrates to find the source of the Sakura petal that is obstructing her vision and get more blinded in return?

Quote:
To me Teru's ability seems tailor made to clash against Saki's, to see who can control the table faster and strike harder.
The more I see of Teru's playstyle and Saki's playstyle the more similar and the more different it appears. I think its natural that they should clash considering that they're playstyle is probably developed in response to each other.

Oh yeah agreed on Kuro and Yuuki, they're dead men walking at this point. I've already made advanced prayers for them.

On another note, the next chapter of Achiga-hen is coming up and I feel that this chapter will bring an end to the vanguard match. So what do do you guys think will happen, will Teru knock a team to zero or not?


1. Teru will knock a team below zero

-Toki lost her mp so there goes one major obstacle of stopping Teru.
-Teru seemed to have finished her "warm-up", and getting dangerous by the minute.
Plot reason
- It will hide Shiraitodai's other members abilities.
- Assuming that there will be no season 2 or OVAs released, the manga need to end soon.

2. Teru does not knock a team out.
- Its the last hand!!! All they need to stop Teru is win once even a measly win would do.
- Its 3 vs. 1
Plot reason:
- Kuro needs to do something.
- This will just repeat the tragedy of Akado 10 years ago just even worse.
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Old 2012-06-08, 11:37   Link #1072
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Nah she isn't going to knock someone to zero. I think Kuro will figure something out about Teru's style through the despair and win a hand. Plus i really want to know about the other players.
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Old 2012-06-08, 11:51   Link #1073
Qilin
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Either way, it would be pretty hilarious (in a trollish kind of sense) if this entire spin-off turned out to be just some excuse to sacrifice a few schools (Achiga and/or Senriyama) for the sake of showcasing Teru's delicious mahjong haxx.

Though in all seriousness, stopping the anime in the middle of the semifinal match is pretty bad form, but I guess it can't be helped if it indeed does.
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Old 2012-06-08, 12:30   Link #1074
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[QUOTE=Qilin;4198121]Either way, it would be pretty hilarious (in a trollish kind of sense) if this entire spin-off turned out to be just some excuse to sacrifice a few schools (Achiga and/or Senriyama) for the sake of showcasing Teru's delicious mahjong haxx. [QUOTE]

Honestly, with all that has happened during Teru Time, that seems exactly what achiga-hen was made for (and to give more focus to Nodoka as the center of the Sakiverse, because god knows she doesn't have enough of that already ). We got more detail on every move than in any other match in the manga so far, everyone but Teru has gotten some sort of flashback, and the levels of destruction are off the charts. Just look at the final words from the last chapter, Ritz is going wild with this, and I'd like to think it's because she knows just how long we've been waiting to see Teru in action. If Toki really collapses after or even during the match, I'll be 100% convinced. Not even the Koromo sent Kana to the hospital.

Unfortunately, that would mean we'd fly through the rest of the rounds, which would be a damn shame, especially since I want to see Arata do something, specifically, kick butt to show Harue what she's made of.
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Old 2012-06-08, 12:55   Link #1075
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Well, we will know it soon but.........

No, I don't think Teru will knock any school off......

Plot-wise

- She can't do that in quater-final round or even in her prefecture round. (This is indirectly told in Saki manga/anime)

- Kuro need to do something. In this case, I think she will be the one who put an end to this match. If she do it with a Yakuman/counted-Yakuman hand, she will able remove her sorrow and end the match with a joy. If anything, Teru will discard 1-pin which she drew up and get ron-ed by Kuro

Story-wise

- After all build up for Achiga, Senriyama and Shindoji characters I don't think Ritz will end it like that. She's just make the story looks so hopeless ,so that when something happen it will be the true surprise.

- Showing all abilities of Achiga and Shiratodai in this round is better idea. So that the final round will be all about gameplay not new abilities showcase.


P.S. If Toki collapse, it is because her body condition and the overuse of her ability not Teru.......Teru has nothing do to with Toki condition!!!!
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Old 2012-06-08, 12:59   Link #1076
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Interestingly, I would not be surprised if Achiga made it to the final round simply because Shirotodai would target Senriyama moreso, allowing Achiga to sneak up, as it were.
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Old 2012-06-08, 13:24   Link #1077
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Interestingly, I would not be surprised if Achiga made it to the final round simply because Shirotodai would target Senriyama moreso, allowing Achiga to sneak up, as it were.
I would hate if that happen....it feels so inhornorable.

The point difference between Achiga and Senriyama is not too large for Achiga to catch-up. At least, just let them get into #2 by their own effort.
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Old 2012-06-08, 13:29   Link #1078
Qilin
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Plot-wise

- She can't do that in quater-final round or even in her prefecture round. (This is indirectly told in Saki manga/anime)

- Kuro need to do something. In this case, I think she will be the one who put an end to this match. If she do it with a Yakuman/counted-Yakuman hand, she will able remove her sorrow and end the match with a joy. If anything, Teru will discard 1-pin which she drew up and get ron-ed by Kuro
I don't know... Just because she didn't do it, doesn't mean that she can't.

Though yeah. I'd agree that Kuro redeeming herself somehow would be the most cathartic development, but the image of Teru somehow dealing into a hand here seems so wildly improbable that I just can't find myself imagining it.
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Old 2012-06-08, 13:29   Link #1079
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I would hate if that happen....it feels so inhornorable.

The point difference between Achiga and Senriyama is not too large for Achiga to catch-up. At least, just let them get into #2 by their own effort.
Right ... I was not implying that Achiga would not put forth effort! (On re-reading my post I can see how that could be implied.) Yet in my mind at least the fact remains that Senriyama is a way more dangerous opponent than Achiga. I'd pay attention to them first if I were Shirotodai.
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Old 2012-06-08, 17:45   Link #1080
Requiem-x
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P.S. If Toki collapse, it is because her body condition and the overuse of her ability not Teru.......Teru has nothing do to with Toki condition!!!!
And why do you think Toki is overexerting herself in the first place? and I wouldn't call it overuse if she has to do it to prevent Teru from slaughtering everyone in the table, not just her.
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