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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 12 18.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 13 20.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 12.31%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 4.62%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.62%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 6.15%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 3.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.54%
1 out of 10 : Painful 18 27.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-09, 05:51   Link #481
fertygo
Hyakko Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
So in other words Evol the sequel with horrible characters, lack luster writing, horrible pacing, and a head writer who just can't seem to keep focused on her actual main characters, ruined its much better prequel, with better characters, better writing, better pacing and a head writer who knew who is main characters were, with one single stupid twist that I imagine the writers will kick themselves for after the series is over, and the drugs have worn off.

At this point in time it isn't even trolling anymore, its just stupidity.
LOL, You acting like the original is some sort of masterpiece

The original show just as bad and isn't make sense either.

I do not believe anyone (or just say it, most people) that follow the "franchise" because thinking the original is "good show"
they remember it as super silly and dumb mecha show but kinda entertaining just because the romance flick.

Me too thinking the "twist" is hella dumb and must be the worst asspull that I ever know, but to thinking its even destroying the original.. LOL Just no, its still in the nature of the series anyway which is stupidity. Yeah that's the nature of the series.
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Old 2012-06-09, 08:01   Link #482
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Which doesn't necessarily equate to love, heck it doesn't even equate to caring about them, as fire fighters and police officers save strangers all the time.
So firefighters and police officers don't care about the people that they save? Maybe you should say that to a firefighter or a police officer sometime, their response might be telling...


Quote:
Then show me where was it given an indication that she was flirted with him because she was interested in him romantically?
crayven addressed this perfectly well, imo.

Thanks, crayven.


Quote:
Though flirting usually indicates a romantic interest, it is not always true, even for teenagers.
It's true often enough that it at least should have occurred to Amata, Andy (especially Andy of all people), and other protagonist cast members that Zessica may well have a crush on Amata.


Quote:
Its perfectly normal, however, she was already turned down once before.
Not at that point, she hadn't been. That was before she confessed her feelings to Amata, IIRC.


Quote:
And you're trying to say that she is completely without flaw or fault. Meanwhile you judge both Amata and Mikono by a much more rigid set of rules.
... And here is where I end this reply to you. This is a complete and total misrepresentation of my position on Amata and Mikono as a post I made a few pages ago on this very thread should have made clear to you.

Please read this.

That post, by the way, was made in the hope of reconciling Amata's biggest fans (you, kuro, etc...) with Zessica's biggest fans. But I can see now that was a fruitless endeavor.

And I can see now that you're totally set on hating Zessica, so there's probably no point in me debating this much further with you.

Your firm hatred of Zessica is why you refuse to even consider that Zessica may have been romantically interested in Amata prior to Episode 8, because if she was, you no longer get to put her flirting in a nefarious "irresponsible/reckless" light, do you?

Personally, I always thought that Zessica's flirting with Amata meant she was interested in him, from the very first time she did it. It simply took a while before she became fully cognizant of this herself.
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Old 2012-06-09, 08:25   Link #483
Faerie
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I love how there is one side to this argument that openly admits they not only won't consider the arguments put before them but that they will not even read them. Pretty much makes the whole discussion pointless.

Honestly, I don't get it.
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Old 2012-06-09, 20:21   Link #484
germanturkey
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well, i enjoyed this ep. it explained everything and now i get it all. haha
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Old 2012-06-09, 21:49   Link #485
LoveMeKags
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually, Genesis of Aquarion came out in 2005 not 2003, it was also followed by Macross Frontier, Basquash and
Animal Detective Kiruminzoo, and the two Frontier movies.

In Basquash Kawamori already did something different in that the main character didn't end up with anyone, since he wasn't interested in any of the female characters. Macross 7 and Macross Plus also didn't follow that story format at all. Actually a good portion of Kawamori's works don't follow that story format. So what you're saying just isn't true.

Also having seen Aquarion, the two OVA's, the movie, read a bit of the manga, and the listened to the drama CDs I wonder whether it was really in his idea to include that all along, as usually there is more evidence of discarded ideas, but this one doesn't really all that much evidence. The dog only shows up once, and that's in regards to Rena, and then is never seen or mentioned again. If the dog was always a part of his plans all along then he had plenty of chances to include it into the storyline, like with the Reika= Scorpius bit. But the fact that he didn't means that he either A) abandoned the idea or B) he didn't think up at the time. Also the fact that even Japanese fans were surprised by this means that there was no indication for it at all.
Then I got one reversed, Aquarion was made in 2003 and came out in 2005. The copyright says 2004 but generally, they always have a year of planning beforehand.

Regardless of the other two mentioned, I doubt Frontier would've stalled him. He must've come up with the idea during the creation of the two movies. It would explain why things are so poorly written in this series. However, the fact of the matter is, it is obvious to any sane person watching this show that the story is not planned very well, stating easily that it was rushed. It is obvious that he created this story during the process of the second movie for Frontier.

He didn't create EVOL during the process of creating the series of Frontier. It had to be recent. Rumors didn't start until after the first movie of Frontier hit BD.

Regarding whether this new twist is a troll or not... I'll wait till they so-called "explain everything."

I have doubts that he decided to continue the series based on the number of fans. This is his most uninteresting series in the fan base. It has less than even Zero. So, in that retrospect, it had to be a spur of the moment, thus adding to our thoughts that this is rushed. I mean, the pacing up until now has been absolutely horrible and continues to be so.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:52   Link #486
SABER60069
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This twist of Apollo being Pollon is horribly done

Why? because this should have been done back during the original series and gone through the proper steps and because this wasn't done in the correct steps, this twist looks horribly out of place and most of the story falls apart making it impossible for me to take it seriously

For example, I can no longer look at Apollonius and Celiane as some kind of love of miracle cause I know 12000 years later his dog will NTR him

I can no longer take Apollo seriously when he was acting like Apollonius cause all I see is a dog pretending to be his master

Don't get me started on Touma, he was suppose to be the "go to" guy for reincarnation reveals but now that he apparently mistaken Apollonius for a dog I can't see him being anything but a joke last time I saw a post saying Fudou and Rena were probably laughing in their minds everytime Apollo and Touma talked to each other

And people are saying Apollo is a human cause he reincarnated, yeah about that he has shown beastly traits even when he is Apollo before this twist it can be assumed it's just because he was never taught manners and was not in touch with human society but now that he is revealed to be an actual reincarnation of a dog. Well this does not make good pictures.

Most importantly, Apollo and Silvia, people are saying how they managed to defy fate and end up together but that is not what I see, since Silvia never seem to recognize Apollo as Pollon, what I end up seeing is Apollo deceiving everyone and hijacking Apollonius and Celiane's promise, yes he didn't lie about anything but still in the end everyone ends up mistaking him as Apollonius so the fact it was never brought up makes that entire concept very unsatisfying
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Old 2012-06-10, 02:25   Link #487
LoveMeKags
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SABER60069 View Post
Why? because this should have been done back during the original series and gone through the proper steps and because this wasn't done in the correct steps, this twist looks horribly out of place and most of the story falls apart making it impossible for me to take it seriously
I think every single one of us is thinking that too. Those of us who really loved the OS are upset at this twist.
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Old 2012-06-10, 02:28   Link #488
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SABER60069 View Post
This twist of Apollo being Pollon is horribly done


It turns out Sophia was right. The constant gattai between Silvia and Apollo allowed Silvia to experience Apollo's memory of Baron. Sophia explains Apollo may mistake Silvia's memory of the previous life as his own.

Reika in the OVA dreaming of Celiane and Apollonius was convinced she was Celiane. It turns out she was Scorpius the third original pilot of Aquarion.

We'll have to note that Silvia not Celiane loved Apollo from the very beginning even if she did not know about it at first. Because she's the reincarnation of her alternate universe self.

Spoiler for Apollo, Silvia and Reika reincarnated in the TV universe:
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:22   Link #489
SABER60069
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I'm not saying the twist itself is bad I said it was horrible handled

Stuff like this should have been revealed during the original series

If they wanted to do this whole defying fate thing then they should have done it back then

What we ended up with is what we thought was a story about a love lasting 12000 years is actually about the reincarnation of a dog defying fate and NTRing his master and didn't even know about it until a few years AFTER it ended

What's more I will actually admit it I hate the twist itself too just because no one actually confirmed who Apollo was doesn't make it alright to make him a dog

I have not seen the OVAs but I heard it somewhat confirms Apollo as Apollonius in it, I'm not going to use that to bash the twist instead I'm going to make a point about Touma, apparently in the OVA I heard Touma made a remark that confirmed Apollo as Apollonius and now in this episode I learned that he was actually deceived and was mistaken creating no plothole but instead now I laugh everytime I see Touma speak

Basically the problem is not whether this makes sense or not, it's that Aquarion never feels the same to me again.
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:31   Link #490
kuromitsu
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>ReddyRedWolf
Yes, we've seen these a million times. And they still don't mean anything given that the whole dog storyline didn't go anywhere in the original series (and neither did the Reika=Sirius, regardless of the OVAs, because in the end it was completely irrelevant). No amount of screencaps will explain why, after a TV series, two OVAs, a movie, a novelization, a manga and a bunch of drama CDs no-one even thought of the possibility of Apollo being the reincarnation of Pollon. It doesn't explain why the dog was never made relevant in the series (never mind the OVAs) and stopped appearing and even being mentioned at episode 16. Just because it's possible to connect this twist to the series doesn't mean that it actually makes any sense in light of the actual plot and development in Genesis. It turns the whole reincarnation angle into a joke. It turns Touma into a complete and utter idiot. It makes the entire story a joke, and not even in a good way.

The only logical explanation: may be they wanted this originally, but in the end they scrapped the idea and never returned to it, even when they had the opportunity - until Evol when Kawamori took the wrong type of drugs or something. It's a retcon, plain and simple.
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Old 2012-06-10, 05:40   Link #491
ReddyRedWolf
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Actually the dog was seen in episode 25 in the flashback of Touma.

Touma was right that the Wings of the Sun Apollonius is Aquarion. He was wrong on the spiritual remnant that became human.

Spoiler for What Touma got right and what he got wrong.:
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Old 2012-06-10, 06:21   Link #492
GoldenLand
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*whistles* I'm impressed yet again. So Kawamori had the nerve to put Pollon on screen with Apollonius in ep 25 while Toma talked about how Apollonius was reborn into a new form. I can't help but like such audacious trolling. I was already persuaded based on the other evidence that Apollo not being Apollonius + Apollo being Pollon was either planned all along or deliberately left open as a possibility (because there were far too many things to be coincidences), but at this point, I'm more inclined to believe it was planned all along. It's as if ep 25, for example, is saying to us that "Hahaha, you never would have paid attention to this picture before, but it is here, and Toma is being trolled too".
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Old 2012-06-10, 06:33   Link #493
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Actually the dog was seen in episode 25 in the flashback of Touma.
And yet, it was never ever made to look relevant whatsoever.

So, yeah, my opinion is still the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
*whistles* I'm impressed yet again. So Kawamori had the nerve to put Pollon on screen with Apollonius in ep 25 while Toma talked about how Apollonius was reborn into a new form.
Actually, Touma was talking only about Aquarion=The Wings of the Sun.
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Old 2012-06-10, 06:49   Link #494
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Actually, Touma was talking only about Aquarion=The Wings of the Sun.
The "he was reborn into a new form in the land of the wingless" bit, spoken while showing Apollonius and Pollon, you mean? Checking that now, that's correct; guess Kawamori couldn't have been saying "Toma's being trolled!" over that particular line, since he was at least correct about Aquarion. Although my, he certainly got trolled.
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Old 2012-06-10, 06:54   Link #495
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
~SNIP
You're pretty ma about the dog thing aren't you?

The point is Touma always knew about Wing of the Sun=Aquarion=Apollonius. What he was wrong about is that Apollonius spiritual ramains reincarnated as a human in Apollo.

You see he tried to jog Apollo's memory about how Apollonius and Touma love each other. But Apollo can only remember the love between Apollonius and Celiane... Because doesn't have those memories in the first place.

You see Apollonius soul remained in Aquarion. What disappeared was his body upon death. Touma made an assumption because his wing reading ability was flawless. Arrogance was Touma's mistake.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:13   Link #496
jinshiroi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
snipity snip.
you know no matter what you say he is still gonna stick with his theory about the dog angle being dropped halfway through genesis, and no matter what you say it wont change that right?
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:19   Link #497
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by jinshiroi View Post
you know no matter what you say he is still gonna stick with his theory about the dog angle being dropped halfway through genesis, and no matter what you say it wont change that right?
Well, Kuromitsu already said on this page that no matter what evidence is brought up from Genesis, it doesn't matter unless it was made to look relevant at the time of that series (and has said that it didn't look at all relevant). So ReddyRedWolf must already be aware of that. By definition, there is no evidence which can ever satisfy Kuro.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:24   Link #498
jinshiroi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Well, Kuromitsu already said on this page that no matter what evidence is brought up from Genesis, it doesn't matter unless it was made to look relevant at the time of that series (and has said that it didn't look at all relevant). So ReddyRedWolf must already be aware of that. By definition, there is no evidence which can ever satisfy Kuro.
I still don't get why people try to defend the dog reincarnation thing. I was a big, genuine, fan of the Genesis and this seem like a big punch in my gut. Oh well, lets see where this leads to.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:25   Link #499
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
You're pretty ma about the dog thing aren't you?
Not "mad" per se, but I think it's incredibly crappy writing, no matter how many "clues" it may have had in the previous series, because of stuff I've said about a million times before. It would've been perfectly fine if it was only Amata and Kagura, but this way? it's just stupid. (And I say this as someone who wasn't even a huge fan of Genesis.)

>jinshiroi
She, actually.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:37   Link #500
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by jinshiroi View Post
I still don't get why people try to defend the dog reincarnation thing. I was a big, genuine, fan of the Genesis and this seem like a big punch in my gut. Oh well, lets see where this leads to.
Defend the dog reincarnation thing? Not sure which type of defending you mean here. Could be taken as (a) considering the possibility that Genesis was written with the dog plot twist in mind, or (b) actually liking the dog plot twist.

(a) would naturally be distasteful to anyone who finds the dog plot twist a punch in the gut and would like to be confident that Genesis couldn't possibly have been planned with the twist in mind, in order to preserve the memory of the first series.

(b)...Well, asking why some people would like the plot twist when you didn't like it is its own answer. It's a matter of preference. Personally, I don't find the plot twist a punch in the gut, and I don't believe it ruins any of the romance in Genesis at all. And I appreciate the twist on its pure trollery value. So I find the plot twist fun. For people who cared a lot about the reincarnation romances being Apollonius/Celiane and think that them being changed makes a mockery of the series, yes, I can certainly see why they would be really upset.

But we still need to wait and see what the next few episodes hold. Who knows what's going to happen before the end?
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