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Old 2012-06-08, 17:24   Link #1201
Daniel Lind
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Quote:
It never ceases to amaze me how people have no ability to infer what is shown to the audience plot-wise from an episode.
I don't get how you managed to figure that out of my words.
Evangelion was MotW too and it too had world-building every episode.
Also MotW was NOT an afterthought in Eva. It was a big homage to Ultraman and MotW was even in the original Proposal documents. There's nothing wrong with MotW by the by.
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Old 2012-06-08, 18:57   Link #1202
Jerseykid
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Ao didn't get a kiss this episode either
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Old 2012-06-08, 20:43   Link #1203
Chaos2Frozen
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^

That's a bit too high-level for now.
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Old 2012-06-08, 21:38   Link #1204
DragoonKain3
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I personally abhor MotW. Even though I read a ton of NGE fanfiction, I have never finished the series proper (I could only stomach D&R) mainly because after the 8th or 9th episode the MotW thing started to bore me.

Difference here? I like how their world is different enough for me to be interested, but similar enough for me to relate to. I'm a big fan of political intrigue, and I was salivating during the entire portion about Japan, their government, their relationship with Okinawa, and what happened with Tokyo being blown to kingdom come.
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Old 2012-06-09, 00:21   Link #1205
Reckoner
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OK. This is starting to peeve me. This series just does so little to really draw me in anymore. The latest episode left me staring at the screen and I had to actually try hard to focus on anything that was going on.

It's hard for me to put into words what is not grabbing me about this show generally, but the best way I can explain is just by comparing the old series and this one. Now this isn't to be a testimony of "WHY'D THEY CHANGE THAT GRRRRR!" but more so an explanation of what worked and grabbed me about the original and how comparatively Ao doesn't.

The setting

Eureka 7 had a completely different setting than our Earth. It wasn't even really connected at all to Earth. Modern day countries didn't exist, and there were interesting cultures and locations all around in E7. Exploring the setting of E7 was part of the fun, and there was always a sense of wonder about what was going on. You always felt like you were learning more and more about the world.

Comparatively Eureka 7 Ao clumsily integrated the idea of modern day countries, albeit with a twist on historical events. However, I felt the setting lost a lot of its appeal and now has become a bit boring. I'm not very interested in finding out more about this earth. Furthermore everything is so different I even wonder why they bothered to make a sequel of "eureka 7" like this. I suppose I'll eventually find out if at all, but this doesn't really feel like a sequel technically speaking (the stories don't really connect in a good way, which I think a sequel should IMO)

The cast

Needless to say I really loved the cast of E7. Eureka herself was a very charming character and Renton was a very easy to empathize main character. But even more than that it was the supporting cast that really made this show shine. Characters like Holland and Tahlo. And you know? They were all adults, and adults who got full out character arcs and development.

Eureka 7 Ao has a few adults, much of whom have barely got any notable development so far ( This is a 2 cour show and they definitely have less time to do it). The main focus on the show is on Ao who is actually pretty decent, though perhaps getting a bit static lately. The thing is Ao barely interacts with anyone save perhaps Fleur in a meaningful manner (Which isn't all that great itself, but it's OK). All the other pilots are female children, which sort of trivializes the drama at play. All in all there's basically of little interest to me here besides Ao and maybe Naru who has been barely on screen since the beginning.

To me the stark different in cast quality is just seen in comparing these two images.

Spoiler for For Space:


The raw emotion

Eureka 7 was awesome at conveying raw emotion. You could really get into the characters and what they were feeling. Again this may be related to the cast itself but it also has to do with certain little touches. I thought one reason Renton was really easy to get into was because so many of the episodes at the beginning and end included personal narration of his character. You always got queued into what exactly he was feeling, what he was doing things for, what his thought process was. These sorts of touches really helped. Beyond this was just some really solid character building episodes.

Eureka 7 Ao doesn't have this kind of personalization, and the plot moves so quickly so far that you can't really slow down to absorb the characters on any level. Of course it also doesn't have that personal narration I was talking about so Ao is not quite as likable as Renton to me, and it's actually kind of hard to be able to tell what he's really feeling in general. I feel emotionally detached from these characters, and the show hardly has the sort of raw emotion that I appreciated in the original. There were glimpses of it, particularly in the first 3 episodes, but since then I haven't really seen it.

The soundtrack

Eureka 7 Ao's sound track isn't bad, might even be pretty decent, but Eureka 7 had an AMAZING sound track in my opinion. The main reason is that it had several defining tracks, perhaps most notable of them all being Storywriter. Eureka 7 Ao lacks something like this. The audio portion definitely isn't as impressive as a result, and ot me great audio can really help enhance a series. Perhaps Eureak 7 Ao had too tough an act to follow, but I hope it wasn't too much to expect to get something like another Storywriter.

The Conflict

Eureka 7 was just a great big adventure. A very fun one as well. Gekkostate always had a goal, but Renton didn't learn about them in detail until later and was really just along for the ride. But what was always there was a sense of adventure as they explore places, until of course shit starts to hit the fan in the series and it became more than just an adventure, but a fullout conflict with the people on the planet who waged war against the colarians. The way the conflict was built up was quite excellent.

Eureka 7 Ao is just a monster of the week, and this isn't inherently bad (My favorite anime is NGE...), but the execution of it is quite lacking and it's also a bit of a jarring transition from the spirit of E7. This no longer feels like a big adventure, but more so a battle against some primitive life form that look pretty damn bland. They also aren't very horrifying and always seem like easy fodder for Generation Bleu, so there's hardly any tension or sense of impending doom in this series. Unlike NGE as well this series isn't very introspective and concerned with the ideas of existentialism or depression or things like the hedge hog's dilemma among other things, so on that front the show cannot hope to keep a compelling conflict. It all draws back to these monsters and the truth (Who feels like a joke at this point), which don't really give me any sense of tension they should.

Misc.

I have to ask, but where the hell is the old cast? Mentions of Eureka are around, but really if this show has practically nothing related to the old characters in a meaningful way, why is this an E7 sequel? Kinda making me think this should've just been a new anime title, not Eureka 7.

Wave riding. This sport was a defining aspect of the old series and it always something I found entertaining. The cutback turn and what not. This seems to have disappeared in Eureka 7 Ao, which is a shame since it was a setting detail I really liked.

What the fuck is up with this Truth character? I know I complained about too many young girl pilots in the show, but compared to this guy they seem right at home. He's so out of place and feels like a final fantasy villain. I'm being patient, but it's getting harder to take him and the threat he poses seriously.

Also are religions like that surrounding the Vodarak priests just gone? I mean what? Again if this series barely feels connected at all, why even make it a "sequel" and not its own title.

The Nirvash doesn't seem nearly as cool as in E7. Things like seven swell or the like hardly are around and he almost seems like just another generic mecha. In fact the mecha action hasn't been nearly as compelling or entertaining in general in this. Fighting generic monsters who all look the same and aren't threatening, though they have different abilities, gets old really fast.

----------------------------------

I know this all sounds like a rant about how this doesn't match up to the original and that I'm merely putting on some nostalgia goggles on or the like, but I really am just trying to show what worked for me in the original and what doesn't work for me in this work. Ao didn't have to copy E7 exactly, but if it was gonna change things up, I'd hope they could make it compelling in similar fashion,b ut to me it clearly isn't.

I'm going to follow this to the end, but my feelings towards this are really similar to how I felt about Last Exile Fam at this point of its run, detached and uninterested even if it wasn't outright bad. I hope at the very least that unlike that show the plot doesn't enter a free fall into a pit of shit. It can at least manage that right? Dunno, just awfully disappointed right now.

Last edited by Reckoner; 2012-06-10 at 01:24.
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Old 2012-06-09, 00:27   Link #1206
Guardian Enzo
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I couldn't disagree more here, but we're all certainly entitled to our opinions. As someone was was a huge fan of both E7 and LE in roughly equal measure, though, I'm astonished that anyone could lump AO in with Fam, even for a second. That's what really makes me wonder if anything but a direct, linear sequel would have satisfied the E7 extremists.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:03   Link #1207
morbosfist
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If you just accept the fact that this isn't the same universe, and is probably that alternate one the Scub was talking about at the end of E7, you won't have so much trouble dealing with the show. A lot of your confusion in the misc section seems to come from trying to reconcile this Earth and that Earth, but they're not the same Earth.

Or, to put it another way, this show rides on the mystery of "how we got here", where as E7 was more of "what is here" type of plot.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:13   Link #1208
SQA
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@Reckoner:

This is a sequel set in a parallel universe. This isn't the E7 or E7 Movie universe.

It's a sequel of the Scub Coral. Eureka has shown up; Renton might make an appearance. None of the rest of the cast will likely show up, unless it's a bit like how the E7 Movie ended.

Your Nostalgia is clouding you to the massive problem E7 TV had from ep 3 to 17. We got almost no World Exposition until the 30s. It was a good series, but we still didn't know what the hell was happening for a long time. In 9 episodes, we've gotten far more information this time around, but there's still a lot of world mystery. As they've been piece-mealing it out to us, you can except to find out more later. What "Truth" is, or was, or will be is going to be one of the central mysteries of the series, of course it will take time.

I do miss an Insert Song on the level of Storywriter, but that song just fit so perfectly with the musical theme they had. The music works well here, but techno and mecha just work a little better.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:35   Link #1209
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Or, to put it another way, this show rides on the mystery of "how we got here", where as E7 was more of "what is here" type of plot.
Well I'm trying to be patient but we're getting closer and closer to the half point of this show. This isn't a confirmed 4 cour show like E7, so they don't have nearly as much time this time around. At this point there's hardly any information to answer this mystery and I find it frustrating for a supposed sequel.

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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Your Nostalgia is clouding you to the massive problem E7 TV had from ep 3 to 17. We got almost no World Exposition until the 30s.
That's not the issue I am talking about here. My main issues are the cast and the lack of apparent connection at this juncture to the previous series. The episodes you just referred to I actually quite enjoyed in the original.
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Old 2012-06-09, 02:03   Link #1210
jcdranzer
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I actually watched the first 8 episodes of the this series earlier this week and I was meant to write a post/review on how the series draws vague similarities with EVA such as the secrets being somewhat "similar" to the Angels in EVA and how this new series is actually pretty good but not as great as the original E7.....but now I rather comment on the episode I just watched.

There are several things going good for this series particularly the character of Truth and the mystery behind his agenda. I know that Truth participation in episode 09 wasn't that great but the thing he did with destroying the car at the end of the episode was pretty cool but probably not as great as his invasion into Generation Blue, in which kept changing his body until he finally stuck with one, which is current form. Another interesting thing is that he calls Ao's Mark I/Nirvash his Nirvash.

My reasons why I think this series isn't as great as the original Eureka Seven, first thing is the music, the OP, ED and general soundtrack of Eureka Seven were one of the best of that decade and E7 Ao's musical choice does not even come close plus I hate it when Ao says "To be continued" at the end of each episode.....it's annoying.

The original Eureka Seven was addictive and intense.....I'm not really feeling that with the sequel series. Also, I really loved the "sporty" aspect of the original Eureka Seven, whereas, E7 Ao is more like a cheap rip-off of series like EVA and Bounen no Xamdou. I wish BONES kept that aspect of "sportiness" within this series.

However, I'm keeping in tune with this series because I want to see what happened to Eureka and Renton....what has become of Renton???

I was planning on re-watching the original Eureka Seven before starting to watch this series but I caved in because of my curiosity. Probably not the greatest of ideas but I don't think I've forgotten much about the original E7 (or have I?) but the stupidest thing is that I've never actually watched the E7 movie, which is suppose to the continue from where the original series left off. I might just re-watch E7 Ao once I've re-watched the original series in the summer.

EDIT #1:

The original Nirvash was so much cooler looking than the one used in E7 Ao.
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Old 2012-06-09, 02:45   Link #1211
butahill
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@Reckoner:
Amazing post. I still remember how happy I was to hear about E7 sequel 'cause it's my favorite anime after all. Well 1-3 episodes were good but then it started to go downhills and while watching the latest one yesterday I felt that I didn't care anymore it didn't interest me and your points pretty much made sense to me. I still hope it will get better.

oh and Truth is one of the worst shounen villains...
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:14   Link #1212
ChocoBar9
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It's so obvious that the people nitpicking this series to death marathoned the original which had so many mindnumbing moments (this is the part when you tell me that every episode was brilliant ) and most of the "awesomeness" didn't happen until the last few episodes but I guess those people remember it differently
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I couldn't disagree more here, but we're all certainly entitled to our opinions. As someone was was a huge fan of both E7 and LE in roughly equal measure, though, I'm astonished that anyone could lump AO in with Fam, even for a second. That's what really makes me wonder if anything but a direct, linear sequel would have satisfied the E7 extremists.
Those people wanted Eureka Seven Destiny apparently


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well I'm trying to be patient but we're getting closer and closer to the half point of this show. This isn't a confirmed 4 cour show like E7, so they don't have nearly as much time this time around. At this point there's hardly any information to answer this mystery and I find it frustrating for a supposed sequel.
So you basically want the show to spoonfeed you all it's mysteries only 9 episodes in, something that took the original 40 episodes in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
That's not the issue I am talking about here. My main issues are the cast and the lack of apparent connection at this juncture to the previous series. The episodes you just referred to I actually quite enjoyed in the original.
Really you're just biased then. The connection is obviously there if you were actually paying attention.

Last edited by ChocoBar9; 2012-06-09 at 03:34.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:04   Link #1213
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoBar9 View Post
It's so obvious that the people nitpicking this series to death marathoned the original which had so many mindnumbing moments (this is the part when you tell me that every episode was brilliant ) and most of the "awesomeness" didn't happen until the last few episodes but I guess those people remember it differently

Those people wanted Eureka Seven Destiny apparently



So you basically want the show to spoonfeed you all it's mysteries only 9 episodes in, something that took the original 40 episodes in.



Really you're just biased then. The connection is obviously there if you were actually paying attention.
Lets beat up the straw man why don't we?

First of all no I don't think every episode of E7 was brilliant, but I more or less enjoyed a majority of the series and was never really put in doubt that it would stop entertaining me altogether despite its numerous flaws.

Now, you know a series being intentionally obtuse doesn't make it smart or anything right? Though honestly that's not really the issue here, many of favorite series are very obtuse like Texhnolyze and Ergo Proxy. I don't knock it down points just for that in of it by itself... However, this is a sequel. I do not believe sequels should act like they are totally disconnected from its predecessor. If you're using the name of something, it better be damn recognizable as a sequel. I should be able to connect the series in a true and tangible manner. Right now, there are vague hints, and stuff mainly about Eureka being Ao's mother that is here and that's it. This might be an AU, I don't know, but I really question the idea of calling this Eureka 7, and figure they might as well have made a new anime project altogether. So really, this isn't a matter of being spoon fed information. It's information that should already be available.
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Old 2012-06-09, 06:26   Link #1214
Arya
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Well, even if I'm not attached to E7 I can understand Reckoner's remarks quite well. Except for the sequel connections. But that's depend by the attachment or no-attachment someone has to the original series. So in this case I was happy that this was not E7 AO Destiny (Well, who knows if in the next episodes Eureka and Renton don't come back spanking Ao and taking the scene ) but an E7 AO EVOL.
Anyways after the first three very solid episodes the show started to explain itself about its in-world political settings using this motW narrative structure that it could get old very very fast and could look a bit cheap for a title as E7. But basically they are not expanding anything else than the political aspects, because, really, the Fleur / Ao development is the minimum basis for this kind of shows. Character-wise there is no real development nor between characters. The biggest hint on how there is no development in the characterization department is how they are handling the Naru aspect. I mean, no one looks really worried, in this episode they are even joking about Ao/Naru kind of relationship. As she was gone to some kind of holiday trip This also undermines the weight of Truth as a villain character, I could start questioning if he is really dangerous.

Anyways, I'm not really complaining for now, because the historical changes, all these generic feelings about the show mixed to the NGE nostalgia they are putting in it, as I have said before, look enough suspicious. They are going along pretty well with the erroneous world statement. I'm expecting, or hoping for, a twist at the end of the first cour. Not the destiny-Renton-coming-back one anyways. Something like Truth spilling the beans and revealing that Naru is the reincarnation of Eureka and Ao the half reincarnation of ... oh no, I got confused, sorry. Anyways some twist thanks to that they will show us the true world and the series will really start moving.
But if something happened in the past that caused the world to split in two ... well nevermind
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Old 2012-06-09, 08:24   Link #1215
ChocoBar9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
First of all no I don't think every episode of E7 was brilliant, but I more or less enjoyed a majority of the series and was never really put in doubt that it would stop entertaining me altogether despite its numerous flaws.
Okay, you're just biased then. The original didn't start kicking gear until later on before the turn of the second half before then it was mindnumbingly slow and the characters didn't branch out or became who they were in the span of 9 episodes either
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Now, you know a series being intentionally obtuse doesn't make it smart or anything right?
Never said that and since when is AO obtuse? It's been pretty straight forward with explaining everything the only mystery is Truth himself and even then his goals has been outlined since his appearance, you're just not paying attention. Now if Renton and anyone else from the first series shows up then I guaranteea your eyes would sty glued permanently to the screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I do not believe sequels should act like they are totally disconnected from its predecessor. If you're using the name of something, it better be damn recognizable as a sequel. I should be able to connect the series in a true and tangible manner.
Well that's really what you believe and not the general definition of a sequel. If you were even paying attention to anything in the last episode of E7 (obviously you weren't) then there shouldn't be any need to have any doubt that this was a sequel, the fact that they've been laying out hints all this time and Eureka herself appearing. This all comes down to you complaining that the show is not spoonfeeding you every single detail early in the game when it has it's own story and problems to focus on which may even related to how it relates to it's predecessor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Right now, there are vague hints, and stuff mainly about Eureka being Ao's mother that is here and that's it.
There's nothing particular "vague" about the hints either


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
This might be an AU, I don't know, but I really question the idea of calling this Eureka 7, and figure they might as well have made a new anime project altogether. So really, this isn't a matter of being spoon fed information. It's information that should already be available.

Why would it be an AU when we saw Eureka fell from the sky and she's referred to as "The girl with the turquoise hair who came from another world"? Are you so dense that you can't put two and two together? You expect an anime to give away it's most important plot element within the first 9 episodes? Maybe this show is too complicated for you, you may wanna just stick to watching Naruto and Bleach

Last edited by ChocoBar9; 2012-06-09 at 08:45.
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Old 2012-06-09, 09:17   Link #1216
Xagzan
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Yeah, I pretty much agree with Reckoner on most of his points. I've learned to deal with the issues addressed in his Misc. section, since I realize AO probably does take place in that parallel world the Scubs went to. It doesn't bother me that much at point, even though one would think a sequel should at least feel like its predecessor in spirit, which I can't say AO does (especially unfortunate given E7's wonderfully escapist feel, with its bizarre setting of plateaus and giant mushrooms and sky surfing that seemed alien yet all too earthlike; AO certainly hasn't given me that same sense, and how could it, when it basically takes place in a world near identical to our own?)

As for the cast, it's really unfortunate this is only a 2 cour (whose brilliant idea was that?), since it means lots of extra character development and interaction could easily fall by the wayside. And I simply don't feel significantly connected to most of these characters yet. Maybe it is because Ao's barely interacted with any of them; early in the first series, Renton had a whole episode showing how he got along with Talho, another whole one for Moondoggie, and of course we always saw his interactions with Holland, Eureka, those three damn kids, even Matthieu from time to time. And we'd also see Eureka interacting with these people and more. And in turn they among themselves. Ao, meanwhile, since arriving at G. Bleu, has had interesting interactions with Fleur, and...well, nobody else who you really might consider as part of their team. Not Rebecca, not Ivica, not the president, not Elena, who is barely a character at this point. Yes, there were the Goldilocks girls as well, but only one of them really had any kind of focus. Now, we have gotten short, but fun scenes here and there between Gazelle and Rebecca, and I'm interested in seeing more between those two. Especially if they throw Fleur's obvious infatuation with Gazelle into the mix

The motw format with the Secrets and the battles against them usually taking up almost half an episode, probably doesn't help with this dearth of character-centric material. And it's unfortunate how uninteresting I'm finding them now, after seeing so many of them; they all look basically the same, which might not be so bad if their design wasn't so bland and undetailed that they look like they came from the first Star Fox on SNES.

Well thankfully, I still actually enjoy the show quite a bit, probably because I made peace long ago with the likelihood that it will never live up to the first series for me.
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Old 2012-06-09, 10:07   Link #1217
Flawfinder
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My problem with this episode is that it's basically the same as the last episode (and some others before that one). Although the non-Ao stuff did have plot progression, the Ao stuff is the same as before. He disagrees, he rushes in with his own plan, the plan works, but he ends up nearly dying. The last part, along with the fact that I like his personality better, makes him more tolerable than someone like Fam, but I really wish something else would happen to him.
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Old 2012-06-09, 10:50   Link #1218
Daniel Lind
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So expecting a sequel (English for continuation, guys) to take after the original in SOME way is somehow a bad thing? In the characters, or the story line, or the ideas, or... well, anything really? Ao has nothing to do with Eureka Seven outside of sci-fi terms that are used to describe different things anyway most of the time. You can milk the point of "Oh, but in E7 #47 they mentioned how Scub Coral went to another world..." but that point was so vague just about ANY bull can be pulled out of it.

Quote:
E7 extremists
Oh god are you serious. Stop taking people's opinions about the show as personal insults guys. It's so obvious you are biased towards this show to the point where any point, valid or not, that people present against Ao, you dismiss as people "Not understanding it", "being biased" or something, and not for a second you even allow the consideration that maybe the show is really poorly directed that so many people feel disconnect and misunderstanding.

If there wasn't an E7 label strapped to it, people might've viewed it in a different way but it IS there and it's an important that it's not just for promoting the show that would have little value of interest on its own.
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Old 2012-06-09, 11:00   Link #1219
-Sho-
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So that's it , it's a sequel in a paralel universe. I was looking for this answers , thought it was a reboot.
Well currently , the only think that i like in this anime is the Okinawa's independence.
The firsts episodes were interesting but it went down later and imo , Truth's character/appearance just killed this show , i'm not digging this...
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Old 2012-06-09, 19:28   Link #1220
CrowKenobi
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A little bit of cleanup since the "arguments" were starting to veer away from actually discussing the episode in question. If anyone feels the need to continue said "arguments," then kindly take them to PM or VM.

Thank you.
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