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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 95 67.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 23.40%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 5.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 2.13%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.71%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.71%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-10, 00:54   Link #61
Guardian Enzo
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Wow, Archer both respectful and merciful? Surely that's a F/Z first.
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Old 2012-06-10, 00:59   Link #62
Ragna92
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Iskander could have actually won that battle if he really wanted to.

He could have just used Ionian Heitaori and surrounded Gil with his army (As mentioned earlier, Rider can freely arrange where everyone appears within the Reality Marble).

Of course he respected Gil too much to beat him with such a tactic.
Ea destroyed the reality marble though. It wouldn't make much difference even if they were around him.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:02   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Iskander could have actually won that battle if he really wanted to.

He could have just used Ionian Heitaori and surrounded Gil with his army (As mentioned earlier, Rider can freely arrange where everyone appears within the Reality Marble).

Of course he respected Gil too much to beat him with such a tactic.
And Gilgamesh could have started the fight on his protoss ship and spam noble phantasms all day.

Power level debates especially regarding Gilgamesh are pretty boring, most of the time it's usually "If Gil was serious he wins", but thankfully this never happens in the story or the story would be pretty boring.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:16   Link #64
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Wow. Just wow.

I am speechless. The Ea moment is even more incredible than the first Excaliblast

The animation, the music, everything. It brought tears to my eyes literally. Same with the music playing during Rider's final charge

Yuki has really outdone herself

This episode alone has made F/Z the top of my list of favourite anime.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:17   Link #65
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Originally Posted by whatbob1 View Post
Power level debates especially regarding Gilgamesh are pretty boring, most of the time it's usually "If Gil was serious he wins", but thankfully this never happens in the story or the story would be pretty boring.

But this happened against Rider. Such is a pity we never got to see what the Servants in the reality marble could do and what their weapons were.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:22   Link #66
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I'm sure I've said this somewhere but I'll say it again... Power level debates are so pointless in the Nasu verse because much of what can happen is based on circumstance. Certain hero and master combinations can in fact beat Gil in all probability. We're also assuming things like it's a fair fight (Surprise attack?).

Spoiler for Fate/Stay Night stuff, not really spoiler but just in case:


As a side note, the music when Gil unleashed Ea was awesome.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:31   Link #67
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I never much liked Gil, but Zero has shown him to be a much more multi-faceted character than I had given him credit for in Night. I can't believe I'm actually finding myself liking the smug bastard.

Saber fight was good, but depressing, as usual, really highlighting the incredible difference between Zero and Fate, and how differently two different writers treated the same character. It's actually insulting, really, to the characters, at how they are portrayed in Fate, even if that makes no sense, as it was written by the creator of the story/lore.

Is it one or two more episodes? I feel like one episode wouldn't be enough to end this great series on the right note.

Also, I wonder what Weaver ends up doing with his life. I was totally expecting him to be killed, but tip my hat to Urobuchi for adding to Gil's character.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:32   Link #68
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I shed manly tears tonight... for the greatest bro that ever was!
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:33   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'm sure I've said this somewhere but I'll say it again... Power level debates are so pointless in the Nasu verse because much of what can happen is based on circumstance. Certain hero and master combinations can in fact beat Gil in all probability. We're also assuming things like it's a fair fight (Surprise attack?).

Spoiler for Fate/Stay Night stuff, not really spoiler but just in case:


As a side note, the music when Gil unleashed Ea was awesome.
No one is unbeatable. Remember what happened to Gil in HF....

I wish we would get to see Riders NP against another servant. I swear he could take any one other then Gil.
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Old 2012-06-10, 01:41   Link #70
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Poor Rider, he had to die being gar like other tragic heroes. I thought for a moment Lancelot looked like Caster, but Kariya is also suffering from madness. Ea is so hax, but it sure does take time to charge it. Of course, it looks very impressive to break Rider's Reality Marble for tearing into it.
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Old 2012-06-10, 02:15   Link #71
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Simply the best anime episode of the year thus far, as far as I'm concerned.

And that's twice now that Fate/Zero has pulled that off for me.

Fate/Zero reminds me of why I love anime.

I hope to have much more to write about this tomorrow, but I'll leave it at that, for now.
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Old 2012-06-10, 02:17   Link #72
jorez
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Epic. I really have nothing but one more thing to say.

"Your loyalty is splendid de aru! Never tarnish it."

Did Gil remember his best pal?
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:37   Link #73
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Fantastic episode on all fronts. So many different characters facing so many different trials and tribulations, yet they're all so fascinating to watch.

Let's start with the character whose story has now been concluded. Given the amount of death flags he raised in the previous episode, Rider's departure here was basically a foregone conclusion, but in no way did that lessen the impact of his final moments, which were, as has been the case with almost every character thus far, very fitting and quite poignant. His conquest has always been a spiritual one and his wish to conquer the world really all about winning over people's hearts with his way of life, and he embraces that same life so much that, in the end, his dream was found within his heart. A moving death scene to be sure, but more so than how he died, this is a man who should be remembered for how he lived. And Waver will most definitely keep that in his heart, as shown by his admirable loyalty that impressed even the almighty Gilgamesh. It was basically the weakest participant in the war at the mercy of the strongest, and yet he walked away unscathed, and will surely carry on the inextinguishable spirit of Iskander as a result. More so than any other participant in the war, Waver has already won something of the utmost value. His future should be a sight to behold.

And speaking of Gilgamesh's mercy, this was also quite the episode for his character. I absolutely love his displays of unabashed haughtiness, but moments of benevolence like the ones he had in this episode are the most revealing for his character and truly show how this individual that at first glance might seem one dimensional is actually filled with fascinating intricacies. "All dreams eventually disappear, when the dreamers awake." Such was the case for his dream with Enkidu (whose end would have been nice to see animated, but the BDs are the only hope left for that), hence his natural attraction towards other hopeless dreamers such as Rider and Saber. For lives led by humans who challenge the very limits of their humanity are the most beautiful ones. Those rare people are more precious than any item in his endless treasury, which is why, like Rider, he will never tire of the world as long as they're around. But even the likes of the King of Conquerors cannot replace Enkidu in his heart. No wonder he values Waver's loyalty so much, for he is clearly very loyal to his one and only friend's memory himself. A beautiful facet to an already sophisticated character, whose next move (likely towards Saber) as we reach the climax of this conflict I'm very much anticipating.

As for the other ongoing clash, it most definitely looks to be on its way to becoming equally powerful given the developments in this episode. But whereas Archer vs Rider was a battle of mutual respect, Saber vs Berserker is the complete opposite: one born of deep-rooted resentment. The reveal of the latter's identity, despite having already been spoiled to me (which made me rage as much as Berserker usually does), was wonderfully done and boy does his character design look awesomely vicious. Seeing him amidst the flames, brimming with madness and screaming his heart out, was almost as impactful to me as it was to Saber, whose spirit has clearly been crushed by what seems to be living proof of the consequences of her heavy ideals. And to Saber, there is no greater handicap. Her ideals are her source of strength, but only as long as she believes in them. Faced with an utterly disgraced Lancelot, how, if at all, will Arturia find the strength to continue to believe in the ideals that had always supported her up until now? I for one cannot wait to find out and this duel definitely has the potential to be a most exhilarating one, both visually and viscerally.

Last but not least, the final montage was a thing of beauty; the foreboding music, Kirei's eloquent prayer and the images of the various characters facing their fears and despair - Waver's loss, Kariya's agony, Saber's hopelessness, Berserker's madness, Irisviel's fate... It really puts into perspective how the 4th Holy Grail War turned out to be one big tragedy for almost everyone involved. And who better to give closure to such a conflict than Kiritsugu and Kirei, who seem to have finally come face to face at the end. I already went into why their rivalry is so compelling last week, so there's no need to restate my high hopes for their confrontation. I don't expect many words to be exchanged between them, given how cutthroat the two are, but theirs is a clash of wills that is sure to be filled with a heavy meaning for both fighters nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Ufotable really managed to pull the "Sword of Rupture" without resorting to a cheesy "energy blast".
Definitely. I'd always found it lame that both Saber and Gil's most powerful moves both consisted of generic sword beams, so it was great to witness the way ufotable presented Enuma Elish here. Now there's something that does justice to the name of "Star of Creation that Splits Apart Heaven and Earth".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
As for the Berserker reveal, it was a good one that I feel I should have seen coming. But I hope they explain more in depth why he became like that
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the Arthurian legend beyond the general knowledge of it and Fate's spin on it, but when I checked out Lancelot's Wikipedia entry, after having his identity spoiled, to try and see if there were any clues to his madness, I found this:

Spoiler:


Of course, I doubt that'll serve as the explanation here. Not sure how the whole Guinevere scenario would work here, what with our female Arthur and all. Regardless, I believe Saber's ideals and Rider's seemingly accurate criticisms of them are already enough to give us an idea as to why Lancelot turned out the way he did here.

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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
When Gilgamesh respects you, he never fools around. The only way to win against him is to resort on his Arrogance EX. If Worthy Foe Appears, it cancels it.
Yep. That's the character's whole "tragic flaw", so to speak. It suits him perfectly and is the reason why his insurmountable power doesn't just break the series.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Wow, Archer both respectful and merciful? Surely that's a F/Z first.
From the BD version of episode 11:
Spoiler:


So yeah, Gilgamesh isn't entirely self-absorbed. He'll show mercy to those who pledge themselves to him and respect to those he considers worthy. It just so happens he has really high standards for people (and why shouldn't he when he's the legendary hero who possessed all things in the world) and thus only truly larger-than-life folk such as Rider are able to receive the honor.
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Old 2012-06-10, 04:58   Link #74
sento
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
I never much liked Gil, but Zero has shown him to be a much more multi-faceted character than I had given him credit for in Night. I can't believe I'm actually finding myself liking the smug bastard.

Saber fight was good, but depressing, as usual, really highlighting the incredible difference between Zero and Fate, and how differently two different writers treated the same character. It's actually insulting, really, to the characters, at how they are portrayed in Fate, even if that makes no sense, as it was written by the creator of the story/lore.
Actually, I don't think that is that different, at least if you compare it to the Visual Novel (anime was just mediocre so is better to forget about it here).

There are characters that only truly shine in stay night for example, here being only presented.
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Old 2012-06-10, 05:20   Link #75
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“Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup runneth over.”

I’d be really interested in hearing about Kirei’s take on his religious beliefs, given how opposed his actions are to traditional Christian morality and to what he had been taught throughout the vast majority of his life. I’m sure that his position on God would be just as interesting as that of Ryuunosuke and Caster. Does he believe that he's going to hell for his behavior? Is it relevant to him at this point?
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Old 2012-06-10, 05:41   Link #76
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Utterly fantastic episode. I really do wish Iskander was able to put up more of a fight since that Reality Marble breaking was anti-climactic as hell but it was amazing nonetheless. Gilgamesh came across as very interesting in this episode. I really do wish the anime put in his background so we could all fully understand the weight behind his words for Iskander but oh well.
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Old 2012-06-10, 06:56   Link #77
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At this point, it is a bit meaningless to avoid mentioning Gilgamesh's return in FSN, but I would remind you that any disclosed information about him and whatever occurs in SN is not allowed in FZ non spoiler threads.
Please use the appropriate threads for such kind of discussion.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:04   Link #78
Linkark07
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I shed manly tears tonight... for the greatest bro that ever was!
Who didn't? I was crying along with Waver because one of the best characters ever done left the battle.

Broskandar the Great, if you were real I would follow you till the end of the world.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:35   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Ufotable really managed to pull the "Sword of Rupture" without resorting to a cheesy "energy blast". I must say that while the initial impact was sort of "weak" at first, the magnitude of Ea's powers was definitely overwhelming. I also liked Ea's deployment, from a single fragment that opens to a literal "web" of possibilities.
Ufutoable definitely did justice to Ea. I fully expected them to use the energy blast so I was really surprised the only thing that seemingly came out was a strong gust of wind... and then we see that the sword had actually split the sky and the ground. Amazing. It's ridiculous how effortlessly Gil destroyed the reality marble Rider was so proud of. He is so damn overpowered when he fights seriously. And it's a shame we didn't get to see the heroic spirits in Ionian Hetaroi fight to the full extent of their abilities.

Ea's summoning sequence was definitely great as well. It immediately made it clear to the audience that the treasure Gilgamesh was about to use this time was no ordinary one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Also, I definitely nod at their decision to displace Gil's comment about Enkindu before (which made some people worried, not without right reason), as it suits the timing much better here. Particularly satisfied they manage to keep the core of Gil and Iskandar dynamics, and again this episode really gives much more subtle details and points for Gil, compared to other format.
They didn't displace it, Gil made that comment at this point in the novel too. What they cut out earlier (it took place right after Caster's demise) was his flashback to Enkidu's death, which I wish they had kept in since that short scene did wonders for Gil's character.

Nevertheless, this episode still did a good job showcasing Gilgamesh's philosophy. He loves and respects men with ridiculously high inspirations and who always keep their head help up high. Another thing he holds in high regards his loyalty, although if Waver had been the follower of anybody else but the majestic Rider, I'm not sure he would have spared him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Wow, Archer both respectful and merciful? Surely that's a F/Z first.
You'd better savor it, I doubt that will happen again anytime soon

There are only a handful of people worthy of the King of Heroes' respect.



Berserker and Saber's scenes were good as well, but they were completely overshadowed by the clash of the Kings in my eyes. I had already been spoiled about Berserker's identity before I even read the novel, so nothing interesting there for me.

Given the lines present in the preview, I'm afraid the next episode is going to be extremely rushed. I hope they'll choose to focus on the right battle.
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Old 2012-06-10, 08:02   Link #80
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Given the lines present in the preview, I'm afraid the next episode is going to be extremely rushed. I hope they'll choose to focus on the right battle.
Well, if this episode was Act 16 Part1~4, judging for the preview next one will be Part5~9. Is more that what was covered in this one, but as there are a lot of lenghty descriptions in that part, maybe they can cover it well (or just skip OP and ED).
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