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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 15 27.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 18.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 3 5.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 16.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 9.09%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 7.27%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 7.27%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 5.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-11, 06:32   Link #121
Xaturas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
As for Alisia, I agree with GenjiChan above - people are just latching onto one aspect and don't even try to see the big picture. Sure, she abandoned him, she never denied that. But come on, it's not like she went to Altair for fun and to cavort with Izumo to her heart's content. She was told "ALISIA, YOU ARE OUR ONLY HOPE" and was given the responsibility to save the population of an entire planet. What was she supposed to do, say "nah, no thanks"? Or should she have risked to take her child with her to a different world where who knows what awaits them? She said she never expected it to end like this. She didn't go knowing that she'd never return, in fact she planned to return for Amata. She just never had the chance. (Of course the wise thing to do would've been not to have a child with the commander of the alien forces, no matter how hot he was, but apparently contraception doesn't exist in this world, just like how they have shiny tablets but no cell phones.)
Izumo: Alicia come to our planet we need you to become a cum dump bucket so that we will repopulate our planet female numbers.
Izumo: Will you take our son with you?
Alicia: Naaaah we will make many kids so lets get to the fucing.


And no I don't hate this story/characters, it is so dumb that I kinda dropped it about 6 eps ago and just download eps to see in future if its worth the ride. I kinda watched this ep, and frankly all I can say is "o_O another dumb trollcoaster".
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Old 2012-06-11, 06:47   Link #122
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ONORE THIS ALL yea whole mykage doing yea basco-jerk in way yea now Moral Event Horizon & one step to a COMPLETE (BLEEP) MONSTER!!!

all for golden machine yea burn in he!! basco-mykage.

(yea way only way left is try or knock sense or free any goodness left of kagura to fix all the damages since he is a "reversal" person)
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:00   Link #123
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
In my opinion Altair is the OVA universe which was saved by the Aquarion piloted by Apollo, Silvia and Reika. But they disappeared from that universe the next 12,000 year as they reincarnated in the TV universe or Vega.

A temporal causality loop happened. The Genesis Punch affected the space time continuum that caused the Great Incident 11 year prior to the TV universe 2nd chapter. The Tree of Life dying led to a split reality similar to Star Trek Prime Universe and Star Trek 2009 Alternate Reality. Vega and Altair's history is identical except for the Genesis of Aquarion generation era and beyond.

Thus the divergent yet similar technologies. The Ignis and Aquaria Vectors that is the successors of the Assault Type Aquarion.

We don't know the circumstances of why the Ianthe shield was developed anymore than why Vega has a ring of debris.

What we do know Izumo's mother created the Ianthe shield. It wouldn't surprise me if Mykage manipulated her.

It sounds like Highlander 2 where Connor Macleod's shield substituted for the ruined Ozone layer. The cure was worse than the disease. It turns out the Ozone layer replenished itself. The shield is causing only problems.
Okay... I get all that but Altair being OVA Aquarion universe doesn't exactly justify the fact that they shot themselves in the foot then acting like an idiot going to Vega abducting female and causing havoc only to realize it was all pointless for me

Izumo couldn't have said it better his life was pointless and Alicia doesn't exactly make it better as what she said basically confirms his life was pointless with the exception of fathering Amata

Fact is if they wanted me to care about Altair's fate then they did a very bad job at it
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:11   Link #124
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
kuromitsu: still, Alisia could've at least left him a note. Nothing too detailed if she has to keep Altair's existence a secret, just something.
Ah, but then Amata would have a note to go by, which wouldn't have been convenient for the writing. ^^;;

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Also, I can half-see some endings that'd have them claiming everything will fall in place, but there're so many loose threads in this show I bet there'll be some they forget about. Donar, I'm looking in your general direction.
It's not even the loose threads, it's just an entire series of awkward and clunky writing. :/ TBH after this and AnoHana I completely fail to understand what people see in Okada Mari.
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:21   Link #125
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
It's not even the loose threads, it's just an entire series of awkward and clunky writing. :/ TBH after this and AnoHana I completely fail to understand what people see in Okada Mari.
You forgot True Tears, which regularly causes butthurt.
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:26   Link #126
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
You forgot True Tears, which regularly causes butthurt.
I haven't seen that. ^^;; I can't check atm but I think the only Okada shows I've seen apart from Evol and AnoHana were the new Kenshin OVA (which was crap) and Otome youkai Zakuro which was very cute but the writing was nothing special - and it was also an adaptation.
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:42   Link #127
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I remember watching True tears but that's it I don't even remember the story. Just checked the anidb and I think the hairpin girl won or maybe not ... Its one of those shitty animes watch and forget.
Aquarion is probably made from the same clay, I don't think I will remember anything about this story, besides the fact that its utterly stupid and make no sense and that plot twists and plot points are dumb at best.
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:45   Link #128
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I remember watching True tears but that's it I don't even remember the story. Just checked the anidb and I think the hairpin girl won or maybe not ... Its one of those shitty animes watch and forget.
Aquarion is probably made from the same clay, I don't think I will remember anything about this story, besides the fact that its utterly stupid and make no sense and that plot twists and plot points are dumb at best.
I actually liked True tears, eventhough there were some debates on whom should have won.
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Old 2012-06-11, 07:53   Link #129
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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
Zessica - fucked, Amata doesn't deserve her, no chance for her since he doesn't have any feelings for her and Mykage killed Amata parents in her body.
Kagura - doesn't deserve Mikono, never calls her by real name, he is just puppet of Mikage and plot device, he will die and/or merge with Amata.
Mikono - doesn't deserve Amata, her indecisiveness angers watchers, also plot device.
Amata - I feel sorry for him.
That's pretty close to how I view the love quadrangle now.

Zessica is totally screwed now. Even if she regains control of her body from Mykage, she'll now have to live with how she played a central role in the death of Amata's parents. I can't see somebody with Zessica's personality ever forgiving herself for this.

In fact, here's my prediction: Zessica manages to overcome Mykage, she tearfully apologizes to Amata for killing his parents, and then while consumed by grief she kamikazes herself in what will be presented as a sacrificial act of redeeming herself. And here's the saddest part - This might well be the best possible outcome for her character at this point.

As for Kagura, he's either going to die or get fused with Amata. If he gets fused with Amata, he'll be the "recessive" part of the fusion - Amagura will basically be a much more romantically/sexually assertive version of Amata. That assertiveness will likely be Kagura's sole personality contribution to the fusion.

As for Amata/Mikono, that might have to do if this show is playing things straight or not. If it's playing things straight, they'll get their happy ending.
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Old 2012-06-11, 08:17   Link #130
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I'm conflicted about this episode.

What I liked:

- Shrade! Even as a flashback, he brings style to the series. I liked Cayenne's reaction too.
- Neo-Deava under Crea's control is getting more of a group feeling to it despite the lack of time spent on it. I like Crea more as the series gets on.
- Hey, Alicia has good taste in men.
- It was good that Amata actually got to talk to his parents before they went crunch.
- Mykage is the guy you love to hate. He's a very effective villain, and I applaud him for that. His frustration over Izumo being difficult to kill was delicious.
- I loved that Izumo didn't just go down, and managed to hit back hard at Aquarion.
- MIX(Y) was pretty good this ep. Not great, but he wasn't dragging things down.
- The mecha fight scenes were fun. I liked that the Andy-Cayenne-Molloy team showed up and naturally had no idea what the hell was going on.
- After this ep, I suddenly had a lot more sympathy for Amata. Poor kid. It's surprising he's so well adjusted.

What I didn't like:
- Alicia. She finally gets a speaking role, and it turns out she really did abandon her son outright. Alicia, you suck at parenting. And apparently, the only thing making up her character is...her love for Izumo, and she doesn't really care about anything else. Character depth, what do those words mean? DISAPPOINTING. Bad writers, bad!
- Then she goes squish. That's it, all this build up, and all that happens is that Alicia/Izumo is revealed as canon, and Alicia is revealed as a bad mother.
- And that ending. Alicia grabs Izumo and waltzes off into death with him, after saying that it's not so bad because at least the proof of their love, Amata, is still alive. And Amata should go for his love like Izumo and Alicia went for theirs! Even though she abandoned her kid and her and Izumo's actions ended up causing their kid a lot of angst.
- I dislike that Amata decided to not resent Alicia any more because he hadn't been able to go for his love the same way his parents had gone for theirs. No Amata, no! That is not the way.

I suppose it was inevitable given the small amount of time left that Izumo would end up being Amata's dad. That's okay.

The MIX-Andy plot, that's going all right, considering how little screen time it's getting.

But the Alicia-Izumo backstory. Oh, the Alicia-Izumo backstory. It sucks. It's so shoddily written. What they needed there was a good reason for Alicia to go to Altair. Even "I went to visit your father and only meant to be there a day, but then I got affected by the curse and was unconscious all this time". But no, she's just a neglectful parent.

I wondered if this ep was trying to show that single-minded devotion is a really bad thing. Kagura fighting just for Mikono, Andy there for just MIX (...although I don't blame those two so much), but mostly Izumo and Alicia. Izumo at least had a partial motive other than Alicia, that being the future of Altair, even though it was made clear that Alicia was the most important person for him. This ep showed him foolishly turning his back on Mykage in order to get to her; it made him defenseless and got him killed. And this ep showed that Alicia and to a slightly lesser degree Izumo were terrible, terrible parents who cared only about their love. So selfish. At the end, Alicia only seemed to care about Amata as the proof of her and Izumo's love. Urgh.

But unless my eyes deceive me, that obsessive "Go for the one you love and to hell with everything else! Be like us!" theme was presented as positive, and as something Amata should aspire to attain. What. WHAT. I mean, I have no problem with Amata going for the one he loves. He wants to be with Mikono? Great, go for it. They're a cute couple, despite the writers getting in their way. But following Alicia and Izumo's example to get there? Bad, bad idea. No. They were an example of unhealthy, obsessive love, of the sort which even hurt their own kid. EVOL, why are you presenting this as something to aspire to?

The promo for the next ep didn't look very good...but I'll hope it's an improvement on this ep. If it turns into "I love Mikono more!" "I love Sylvie more!" "No, I do! Because I've taken our parents' example to heart, I can defeat you!"...that will not be good. Amata, don't pay any attention to your parents' advice!

EVOL probably isn't but could easily have been a series with a theme about how unhealthy, obsessive love is not a good thing. Zessica's suffered from it, Mykage is Mykage over it, Andy turned all angsty and had his power temporarily out of control over it, Kagura is madly in love but sees his "Sylvie" rather than the real Mikono...So, Amata could have been an example of someone whose love isn't unhealthy in that way. (I know some people argue he was already being unhealthy about it; by EVOL's standards I think he mostly wasn't.) But with him being encouraged to go for love by Alicia like that, I'm a little worried.

On another note, Izumo looked pretty silly in parts of that flashback. Dude improved with age.

So, in the end I'm rating this episode as "bad" because of its message and Alicia's characterisation. Other than that I liked the ep, but I can't get over the Izumo-Alicia mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
He also stayed because he didn't know about her child and he found out after Mykage convinced the other people in Altair to send Izumo back to retrieve Altair.
Oh! So Izumo didn't know about Amata all that time? I'd forgotten. But if so, thank goodness. I really liked Izumo, so having him being such a neglectful dad was a pity. Looks as if he might not have been that bad.

Last edited by GoldenLand; 2012-06-11 at 08:43.
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Old 2012-06-11, 08:54   Link #131
kuromitsu
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Am I the only one here who even cares about the tiny little and surely completely unimportant fact that Alisia went to Altair to save the damn planet? Just wondering. I mean she even said "I wanted to save my love's home" or something along those lines. She didn't go there to "visit" Izumo, she didn't go there to "be with him" she went to help save a planet that was his home world. So selfish of her.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:11   Link #132
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So uhh what is this show's theme again? I think figuring out the theme would go a long way in determining if the show is written (very) badly or not. At first I thought it was "Fate doesn't matter, go for the one you love". Then we learn that Apollo is actually a reincarnation of Pollon, also Amata - Kagura are both fated to Mikono. I don't know anymore.

Now we have this very bad couple Alicia-Izumo, especially Alicia, who leaves their son all alone without explaining anything. This could have been used together with Mykage's unability to let go of his homo boyfriend 24000 years ago to show that love is not everything. However the way Amata forgives his mom so easily and unexpectedly and Alicia urging him to "protect" the person he loves the most means the opposite. So giving up everything for your one and true love is now EVOL's theme? I'm afraid there's nothing EVOLutionary about this.

Furthermore, if the show intends to make Amata-Mikono-Kagura the main triangle (which it is) why don't they spend more time on Kagura seriously? Dude is literally a plot device who is not good enough to be a serious love rival or strong enough to be a foe like Izumo. Look at how pissed Zessikage is at Izumo this ep, now see how carefree he is around his tool, Kagura. And you know it's probably going to be Kagura who kills Mykage in the final episode after Mikono "connects" him and Amata.

The most baffling aspect of the show is for me Zessica. All those time spent on Zessica *every episode* (the same can't be said about Kagura or even Mikono) could have been used to show Kagura's feelings and daily life.. or to let Amata and Mikono have some cute moments in the second half of the show instead of breaking up every conversation they have whenever Kagura is brought up. Why did ZEN pair her up with Amata and Mikono in episode 5 and many times after that if the end result is her falling in despair and be taken by Mykage? And they didn't even show her struggle against him this ep.

And we still don't know what Mykage is after.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:15   Link #133
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
IMO neither is the case. As for whether it's serious or not, that's been a "problem" since the first TV series - it's a matter of acquired taste specially because most people simply can't decide whether it takes itself seriously or not. It's not a parody but it's too silly for actual, epic drama, and in my experience most people don't know how they should approach it. Me, I've always thought that Aquarion (at least the Genesis TV) was basically about doing a serious show with its tongue very firmly in the cheek, if that makes sense.
I know what you're saying there. Very cheesy/over-the-top at times but also presents its narrative seriously.

But by deconstruction vs. sincere, I didn't mean non-serious vs. serious. Either way, it's "half-way" serious. It's just... is it a show that deconstructs its genre a bit, or it is a show that plays it straight but just messes it up a lot?


Quote:

People keep using the word "deconstruction" in connection with Evol, but I don't get why.
I'll get to what I mean here in my reply to GoldenLand. I have a more concrete idea for it now.


Quote:
As for Alisia, I agree with GenjiChan above - people are just latching onto one aspect and don't even try to see the big picture.
The thing with Alisia is that Amata has forgiven her, and she's presented in this episode in a generally positive light, so the clear implication is that we viewers are meant to forgive her as well. In fact, we're probably supposed to feel deeply moved and stuff when Amata witnesses his parents die with their spirits sending him a final, poignant farewell (with heavy "Amata is the Chosen One" vibes to it, imo).

The problem is that the specific details of how Alicia left Amata don't look that great, and aren't exactly easy to forgive (and Amata forgave them easily, it seems).

I can totally accept Alisia deciding to go to Altair to try to save her lover's world. But to head off the way she did, seemingly without explaining anything to Amata (no notes left behind, for example) or without even seeing to it that the poor kid will be properly cared for while she's gone, is just crazy, imo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Triple R: I've been saying for a few weeks now it's probably something like what you're calling the deconstruction, with the note that they've seemingly been afraid to go too far on that -- probably to keep it from being unwatchable -- but thereby diluting it, much to its detriment.
That could very well be it. I kind of hope so, really.

Although, on the positive side, if this anime is playing everything straight, it becomes one of the perfect shows to do Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged style. Unintentional self-parody is the ripest of comedy fodder, lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
I'm conflicted about this episode.

What I liked:
I pretty much agreed with all your positives. Good list.


Quote:
I wondered if this ep was trying to show that single-minded devotion is a really bad thing.
That's much of what I mean by this show possibly being a deconstruction (but one that's playing it too cute/coy).

What is the show deconstructing? Well, amongst other things, it may be deconstructing idealized conceptions of romantic love (i.e. romantic love as a "single-minded devotion" where your lover gets put first, last, and always; everything else becoming totally unimportant).

Just look at all the problems romantic love has caused in this show (for this list, "smd" stands for "single-minded devotion"):

Alisia's smd/love for Izumo resulted in Amata being abandoned.
Mykage/Touma's smd/love for Apolonius has made him the villain he is today.
Kagura's smd/love for Mikono has caused loads of death and destruction.
Zessica's smd/love for Amata has clearly caused her much more harm than good.
Amata's smd/love for Mikono has led to lots of pointless clashes with Kagura, and has also worsened Zessica's situation.
Andy's smd/love for MIX(Y) means he keeps recklessly endangering his friends/allies in half-baked attempts to rescue MIX(Y).

When you think about it, the characters that have been the most helpful in solving problems have been the one's least consumed by love (i.e. Shrade, Cayenne, etc...). The characters that have caused the most problems are those consumed by love. ...Maybe Fudo had the right idea in banning love.


Quote:
But unless my eyes deceive me, that obsessive "Go for the one you love and to hell with everything else! Be like us!" theme was presented as positive, and as something Amata should aspire to attain.
Right. So if it is a deconstruction, it's being too coy/cute about it, imo.

But if it is a deconstruction, we'll know that soon, as it would almost certainly mean a bad end for Amata (and lots of other characters besides). If Amata gets his happy end with Mikono, I don't see any way this show can be perceived as a deconstruction.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:19   Link #134
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Am I the only one here who even cares about the tiny little and surely completely unimportant fact that Alisia went to Altair to save the damn planet? Just wondering. I mean she even said "I wanted to save my love's home" or something along those lines. She didn't go there to "visit" Izumo, she didn't go there to "be with him" she went to help save a planet that was his home world. So selfish of her.
Well, look at what she said.

"If it'll help you, I'm sure." (to Izumo)
"It was hard to decide whether I should take you. In the end, I was more worried that you would be in danger on a strange, unknown world. I never thought we would be apart for so long. No, that's just an excuse. I abandoned you. I wanted to help save my love's world. It was all for the man I loved, the things I loved."

So essentially she did it for Izumo. We don't know if she would have done it just because the other world needed her. According to her, her motivation was to help out Izumo.

The main problem is the way she left Amata. It was traumatic. Disappearing from before his eyes, in a graveyard, apparently without a single word about what was going on. And she had been warned about the dangers: she would probably know there was a risk of death or illness for her there.

The criticism here could be aimed at the writers; it would have been easy for them to have Alicia leave Amata in a way which wouldn't have left him in the dark about what happened. "Amata, I'm leaving on a mission to save another world. I hope to be back soon, but it's going to be dangerous, so it's possible I won't return. Remember that your mother still loves you and is thinking of you." Easy. Of course, the writers couldn't do that without harming the plot.

Abandoning your young child without a word to them about why, where you're going, or whether you'll return, simply because the person you love needs your help and you would do anything for them...that's pretty selfish. Parents have responsibilities.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:26   Link #135
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Originally Posted by crayven View Post
So uhh what is this show's theme again? I think figuring out the theme would go a long way in determining if the show is written (very) badly or not. At first I thought it was "Fate doesn't matter, go for the one you love". Then we learn that Apollo is actually a reincarnation of Pollon, also Amata - Kagura are both fated to Mikono. I don't know anymore.
After so many episodes I made conclusion that EVOL is about destructive love(when you don't see anything except your lover and don't care nor notice the world). Everyone who is in love in this show brings destruction to the world.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:32   Link #136
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That legendary Aquarion sure had some pretty cool powers.
Andy's love for Mix is just amazing. Won't give her up no matter what.
Shrade died. That's a shame since he had some nice powers.
In the meantime Amata stumbled upon something really interesting.
Guess he found his family... finally and got to hear the whole story.
In that whole story, Amata was the one who suffered the most.
Izumo vs Kagura + some sneaky help from Mikage.
Pretty sweet and sour ending of this episode.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:37   Link #137
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After watching Aquarion EVOL episode 24, I'm left with two conflicting viewpoints on the anime:

1. It's something of a self or genre-parody. This show is meant to deconstruct, or at least make fun of, storylines like this one. Storylines where a child is The Chosen One (tm) of two important parents who he loses in his youth, and then he goes on a journey to achieve his destiny (possibly along with his fated lover). You see a fair bit of this in mecha anime, Gundam especially (Alisia herself makes me think a lot of Sheryl from Macross and a little bit of Lacus Clyne from Gundam Seed).

What aids the deconstruction: Amata's life is actually pretty crappy when you stop to think about it (what ZetaAEUG brought up really showcases that ), and Amata/Mikono has caused a lot of problems for many other characters.

2. The show is actually entirely sincere in what it's presenting. No deconstruction. Problem is that they're massively screwing up secondary details (and while they are secondary, they shape how we perceive important characters, which in turn can hurt what the narrative is aiming for with the main characters). I can't believe it never occurred to some Editor, Okada, or Kawamori himself that "You know, maybe we should at least have Alisia find adults to care for her son, and not just literally abandon him at a graveyard of all places."


So yeah, I think it's one or the other. An otherwise well-crafted deconstruction that perhaps is a touch too coy/cute for its own good (so people aren't "getting it" unlike Madoka Magica)... or Kawamori actually intended this to be an epic Coming of Age "monomyth" story played straight, and it's getting unraveled by really badly handled secondary details.

I'd like to know what my fellow viewers think is more likely of the two.


Anyway, in spite of its writing flaws, the show's sheer spectacle makes it a very engaging watch. But I have to say that I'm not optimistic about how this will end. For one thing, I don't think Kagura and/or Zessica fans are going to like how it ends... and for reasons that go beyond shipping wars.
I'm honestly in the middle. I mean on one hand you have some things that seem tongue in cheek like the couple that is the cause of everything, somewhat useless chosen one, etc.

And other things like bad writing, poorly-developed main characters, plot seems rushed at times, bad romance that it presents that just seem like they don't know what they're doing.

And Kagura's death flag is pretty at half-mast since his voice over in the preview, as for Zessica it would be stupid to kill her off because she's possessed by Mykage. They could save her without killing her. But something tells me that they're gonna try and have her sacrifice herself to stop Mykage. Hopefully that's not the case.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:39   Link #138
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
After so many episodes I made conclusion that EVOL is about destructive love(when you don't see anything except your lover and don't care nor notice the world). Everyone who is in love in this show brings destruction to the world.
Yeah, this is what it looks like. If Zessica can get out of Mikage's control and how she can do it is also a plot point it seems. It would seem she is a character stuck in between a cycle of reincarnation and fate characters - Amata, Mikono, Kagura, Mikage

I guess she is supposed to recognize what sort of problems can be created from cycles like this and not wish for it like she wanted to in ep 21 which means she will hopefully live and go out on date with operator-kun or that guy who asked her out.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:54   Link #139
kuromitsu
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Well, look at what she said.
Yes, but you know, context? ^^;; It's not like Izumo told her "hey baby, let's go to my home planet and have some fun there" and Alisia said "OK, who cares about our kid anyway."

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
The main problem is the way she left Amata. It was traumatic. Disappearing from before his eyes, in a graveyard, apparently without a single word about what was going on.
Well, yes. But as you yourself said: plot convenience. There could've been a million ways to make this easier for Amata (and Amata could've still beaten up himself over it!), but that would've required to focus more on Amata. Which obviously could not be done because focusing on the main character would've taken precious time away from... uh, other Surely Very Important stuff.
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Old 2012-06-11, 10:26   Link #140
hai_san
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Well just say that Amata parents are both bad! Period.
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