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Old 2012-06-12, 15:56   Link #1121
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Even if he is a 12-year-old Japanese boy.
Hmm... Someone else said that previously. Was it you? Is there something inherently different between 12-year old Japanese boys and, say, 12-year old British boys, or Canadian boys, or, for that matter, any other 12-year old boys? Are they more prone to giggle? To blush at a naked girl's body? To tell a girl around his own age to not expose herself to him?

Not that I even believe that last one. At the age of 12, when hormones were beginning to run wild, I don't think any of my male classmates would have objected if one of our female classmates were to disrobe in front of us. That must just be an anime thing. Or, maybe it is a Japanese thing.

Quote:
You make good points. I just didn't happen to react the same way. I admitted fanservice was part of the reason for the bath scene. But it seemed natural and intimate to me, and also gave a bit of an old-time flavour.
As usual, you make some very good points, as well. It may have seemed natural and intimate to me, as well, if idiot boy hadn't been there, ruining the whole atmosphere, making it seem like a parody of a very important, serious scene. I will admit that, if he hadn't been there, my inclination to call it fanservice would be severely diminished, but with him there, particularly in full-blown blush, it was obviously pandering to a certain segment of the audience (the segment of the audience that will buy the DVDs to see the uncensored bits).

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The slapping gave a bit of old-time flavour too, lol. People treated each other worse in the past, is my opinion.
Geez. I have the opposite opinion. I feel that, a long time ago, when I was young (let's just say more decades than you can count on one hand), people were a lot more considerate of each other, and this sort of spontaneous slapping each other would not have been the norm, but an oddity. It seems to me that, nowadays, people in general are a lot more crass and impolite than they were when I was young. Respect and consideration for your fellow human were more prevalent, and "Please" and "Thank you" were the norm then. Nowadays they're the rarity, particularly, but not only, among teenagers. Maybe not in Japan, but at least where I come from, that is.
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:17   Link #1122
Kaoru Chujo
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@FredFriendly -- I had the same reaction you did about the "Japanese boy" thing, when someone previously explained his attitude with that idea (I was quoting them). I thought as you did that the 12-year-old boys I know would react quite differently. But then I thought about it and realized that Japanese society remains a bit more conventional and hidebound than ours in North America. For better and worse.

As for the thing about people in the past being less kind, I say it not just because I believe it, but because it is so counter-intuitive. My moment of realization came when I watched a Marx Brothers and a WC Fields film back to back. The humour was quite cruel. And people 50-100 years ago certainly had stricter demands for conventional behaviour and less tolerance of outsiders of any kind. In 18th century England, executions were popular public entertainment. And in the time of Christ, people though mass crucifixions were a good idea, and slavery perfectly normal. That slavery thing kept going until 150 years ago in the US (it was abolished a bit earlier in Britain, where it was not so economically significant).

People may have been more polite in the past, but not necessarily kinder. Courtesy may be a form of self-defence in a society where everyone is actually afraid of each other (e.g., the origin of shaking hands as showing you held no weapon). I've always thought abject fear of lords and samurai was the origin of Japanese high courtesy and social discipline.

Sorry, getting off-topic. To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.

EDIT: @Grimjack (next post) -- Good points. But I think of that kind of cruelty as part of a pre-modern society. Or perpetrated by the occasional psychopath in a modern society.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2012-06-12 at 17:40.
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:38   Link #1123
GrimJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
[B] To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.
It would really have to be fairly isolated community but just watch the news and we can see horrors daily.

...In some parts of Africa it is not unknown for children to be sacrificed to protect people from witchcraft, not pretty but it has been known to have happened in recent memory to me... I heard about it on the BBC.

as a response to your response.. the story in question did not happen in a backward community but in a modern urban setting, the main connection is fear of the unknown.

when people are truly afraid all kinds of nonsense can be justified

I am not sure on the amount of human sacrifice that occurred in the past at Shinto Shrines or even if it ever did, (most probably though) The thing is the village elders used the plague to cover up the sacrifice as they would put it out that the victim just died of the plague.

Why Aki and Yukariko would keep silent is a matter of power imbalance and fear of being isolated (if not killed) as well. The people who perpetrated this crime are those in power and there was little recourse to go anywhere else. This was post war Japan under American occupation after all, not the modern society in Japan now
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:50   Link #1124
mangamuscle
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^ It can also happen in an urban areas, all you need is a charismatic leader, remember the Sarin gas attacks in the tokyo subway, such cults could just the same perform human sacrifice and if the leader is also wealthy/influential they might even have help from the local authorities.
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:53   Link #1125
Randrak42
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Simple, just because we have ipads, skyscrapers and planes, does mean we can't also have people that believe in old, barbaric religious (or otherwise) rituals and lunatics that make up their own.
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Old 2012-06-12, 18:39   Link #1126
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
@FredFriendly -- I had the same reaction you did about the "Japanese boy" thing,
Spoiler for more more or less off-topic stuff:

Quote:
Sorry, getting off-topic. To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.
It seems that this sort of thing is more common than one would expect, though perhaps not in Japan. Check out this article from March, 2012, purportedly originally reported by the Associated Press. There are probably other recent examples out there on the Internet.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-06-13 at 02:19.
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Old 2012-06-12, 19:43   Link #1127
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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I'd say it goes even beyond simple cultures and right down the main thing that affects everybody to some degree; old-fashioned fear and paranoia.

When you're right in the middle of what feels like death itself, it can drive people to do pretty irrational things that they otherwise probably would not do (unless they're just that sick an individual). In this case, everyone around them was dying of a plague and it always gave off a feeling of, "Am I next?", really. As it hit closer to home (entire families having died), the paranoia and fear just become worse.

I like to like this is sort of an isolated Black Plague-like scenario, which caused a HUGE amount of religious zealotry and paranoia throughout Europe, with many people imprisoned, tortured, and/or killed off as accused "witches" or "causes" of the plague in order to appease god to miraculously make the plague go away. Main difference being that this is just presumably isolated within the town and not around the whole country.

Of course, it's also a common theme portrayed in post-apocalyptic-style scenarios where there's usually 1 person(s) who ends up snapping.
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Old 2012-06-12, 20:44   Link #1128
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Hmm... Someone else said that previously. Was it you? Is there something inherently different between 12-year old Japanese boys and, say, 12-year old British boys, or Canadian boys, or, for that matter, any other 12-year old boys? Are they more prone to giggle? To blush at a naked girl's body? To tell a girl around his own age to not expose herself to him?

Not that I even believe that last one. At the age of 12, when hormones were beginning to run wild, I don't think any of my male classmates would have objected if one of our female classmates were to disrobe in front of us. That must just be an anime thing. Or, maybe it is a Japanese thing.
I can tell you plenty of 12 year olds here would be extremely embarrased by something like that, in fact I'm actually surprised that Westerners would be so open to it. 14-15 years and above would be everyone's wet dream but 12 is still a kid's mentality....at least that's the way it is here in general...
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Old 2012-06-12, 20:57   Link #1129
FredFriendly
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I can tell you plenty of 12 year olds would be extremely embarrased by something like that, in fact I'm actually surprised that Westerners would be so open to it. 14-15 years and above would be everyone's wet dream but 12 is still a kid's mentality....at least that's the way it is here in general...
Thanks for clarifying this!

I have seen this trope a lot in anime, even with teenage boys as old as 17, wait, even beyond teenage boys (I can think of at least one college age "man" with what most guys would consider a smokin' hot, live-in girlfriend), and even beyond. So, not being Japanese, it's hard to tell if this really is the way a lot of Japanese guys would act.

And then there's the other guys that permeate anime, the complete perverts (the boob grabbers, the voyeurs, etc.). Are they really all that common in Japan?
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Old 2012-06-13, 02:20   Link #1130
Daniel E.
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Several posts have been deleted. Please try to keep the discussion on topic from here on out.
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Old 2012-06-13, 12:24   Link #1131
Cosmic Eagle
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Silver Link did well with this ep. The first-person view really added to the impact. Being walled up is certainly a shitty way to go...
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Old 2012-06-17, 13:52   Link #1132
GrimJack
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lots happened in this episode but to really make sense of it I will have to wait for the subbed version.

Yukariko seems much nicer than in the manga though

Spoiler for but...:
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Old 2012-06-17, 16:13   Link #1133
gecd
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Spoiler for ep 11:
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Old 2012-06-17, 16:15   Link #1134
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by gecd View Post
Spoiler for ep 11:
Spoiler for 11:
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Old 2012-06-17, 16:21   Link #1135
Rayrah
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Spoiler for 11:
Spoiler for reply:
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Old 2012-06-17, 16:23   Link #1136
GrimJack
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Spoiler for reply:
it is in the preview for next week
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Old 2012-06-17, 16:30   Link #1137
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it is in the preview for next week
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:44   Link #1138
BBOvenGuy
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There are really only three ways this story can end.

Spoiler for And they are::


The only other option would be not to end it, like it's a sitcom where Teiichi has to put up with that wacky Yuuko causing trouble all the time. At least they're not going there.
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:44   Link #1139
Randrak42
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Spoiler for reply:
Aye *brofist*
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Old 2012-06-17, 18:07   Link #1140
Rayrah
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
There are really only three ways this story can end.

Spoiler for And they are::


The only other option would be not to end it, like it's a sitcom where Teiichi has to put up with that wacky Yuuko causing trouble all the time. At least they're not going there.
Indeed. No matter how you spin it, it'll end in one of those three ways. But at the end of the day, I'm just a person who will always prefer option 1 and 2 to option 3; no matter how horribly written those endings may be. I hate seeing lovers get separated. But eh, I suppose there's still enough time for us to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.
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