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Old 2012-06-14, 15:39   Link #9501
Randrak42
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So...people can't express their own opinions and make their own speculations?
And being a "true fan" of an author means you can't have negative opinions?

ooc: Not trolling or instigating anything before you jump the gun, just trying to understand the post...
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Old 2012-06-14, 15:44   Link #9502
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarun View Post
That was good planning in hindsight!
It's said he plans out things a year in advance.
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Old 2012-06-14, 15:47   Link #9503
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I'm not saying you can't have negative opinions. You can. I do, too. What I clearly say there is, it's not really okay to call someone a bad writer without even having seen the big picture. Sure, share your opinions and speculations, but don't go calling everything you don't fancy a bad writing decision.

I'm especially bitter about Wolfenstein, since he was the one trying to convince people that Zenkichi's altered god mode wasn't an asspull and it wasn't bad writing, while now he is saying Nisio is a bad writer/made too many bad decisions this chapter simply because the things he wanted for Emukae didn't happen.

I don't claim to be a true Nisio fan and as I said, a true fan can have negative opinions. However, they at least should be reserved enough to not jump the gun and talk pages and pages making ever growing numbers of assumptions based on a single chapter—and it's very last page nonetheless.
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:04   Link #9504
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post
I'm not saying you can't have negative opinions. You can. I do, too. What I clearly say there is, it's not really okay to call someone a bad writer without even having seen the big picture. Sure, share your opinions and speculations, but don't go calling everything you don't fancy a bad writing decision.

I'm especially bitter about Wolfenstein, since he was the one trying to convince people that Zenkichi's altered god mode wasn't an asspull and it wasn't bad writing, while now he is saying Nisio is a bad writer/made too many bad decisions this chapter simply because the things he wanted for Emukae didn't happen.

I don't claim to be a true Nisio fan and as I said, a true fan can have negative opinions. However, they at least should be reserved enough to not jump the gun and talk pages and pages making ever growing numbers of assumptions based on a single chapter—and it's very last page nonetheless.
Well...rather than calling Nishio a bad writer, I do honestly believe that this chapter had some Bad writing which can happen to any writer, good or bad.

In my honest opinion I believe that some decisions made this chapter were bad, sure I can't deny that a part of me is a bit biased. I am a huge Emukae fan and I feel she got cheated this chapter but will this be redeemed later on? I don't know, but I reacted to this chapter. That's what happens in weekly releases, people can't help reacting to the content of the recent chapter. Unlike in books for example where you can read whole volumes at a time, people are limited to the information of the chapter and can't but speculate. Some speculations turn out true, some turn out horribly wrong...it happens.

I also love Kumagawa, but that doesn't stop me from feeling like bringing him in right now was a bad decision and the way they brought him was even worst. Others may not believe this to be true, more power to them, if they can enjoy the chapter I didn't then cool, at least someone had fun with it.

It's all about personal opinions. True that at times certain discussions can get too heated, that sometimes people will try to force their own ideals and opinions on others but that's, unfortunately, how humans work. But at times, people just like to point their own opinions out, they just like to come in, post their own opinions and see if someone shares them or doesn't agree with them. I see no harm in that, it's not insulting to anyone, especially the author. The problem arises when someone reads the opinions of others, doesn't agree and makes a personal competition of it all.
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:27   Link #9505
K. Shiruto
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Kumagawa erased his aura. No one can feel his presence and he can come out of nowhere when you less expect, and that includes what happened at the end of this latest chapter as well.
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:30   Link #9506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Kumagawa erased his aura. No one can feel his presence and he can come out of nowhere when you less expect, and that includes what happened at the end of this latest chapter as well.
Yes...that has been said a couple of times now...
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:31   Link #9507
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Kumagawa erased his aura. No one can feel his presence and he can come out of nowhere when you less expect, and that includes what happened at the end of this latest chapter as well.
Like I said. After read everything you guys wrote I understand better this ch. And even why he bring Kumagawa (even if I still think Nisio have much better way to do so) the problem is...can they really work a team like you say in another post?
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:39   Link #9508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
It's funny. Because Kumagawa erased his aura now Nisio can throw him in our faces whenever he feels like and walk away without worries. He's truly top notch mangaka.
Smooth as Ice. This means more random Screws.
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Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
And as for Kumagawa never being able to win...

He simply can't ever 'win in the way that he would consider a win'.

I mean there are plenty of battles earlier that he 'lost', and you know how those turned out...
I think this was highlighted best during medakas test, after that card game, that he obviously won, but because he listened to the girls, but him conceding gained him the respect of the candidates who happily jumped after him following him to the next test.

Also remembering that chapter who else still LOLs at the nurses Horror, and Kumagawa`s lack of mercy at the time. Well he did say he would allow her to keep on the nurses cap!

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Originally Posted by DmonHiro View Post
Excuse me, people yelling "asspull"! Kumagawa erased his AURA about 6 volume ago. That means that nobody will ever notice him being anywhere, unless they can see him. They explained this over 50 chapters ago.

Also, nobody said All Fiction is weaker now, they asid it's not as dangerous anymore. And the one who said that was Ajimu, since All Fiction poses no danger to her or her plans, and in fact made it easier for her to predict Kumagawa's movements. They never once said that All Fiction is in any way restricted now. Hell, he just healed someone and when he got it back, he came back from the dead, so why would you think it's weaker?
I always remembered that because I am a Kumagawa fan, yet I still didn't realize that was why he came from nowhere. I attributed to the usual swoop in and save the day we see in most manga`s.
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:46   Link #9509
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About relief attendant rising in the pools I see that`s likely as that page of her going stomp happy on the fake suitors is being thrown around even on NarutoForums. Mostly the one with the her on a throne with the chains.lol.
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Old 2012-06-14, 16:49   Link #9510
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Like I said. After read everything you guys wrote I understand better this ch. And even why he bring Kumagawa (even if I still think Nisio have much better way to do so) the problem is...can they really work a team like you say in another post?
I don't know, Soji, for that they first need to find which is her style.

Though the most hilarious thing about the whole issue is, Kugurugi already used her battle style.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:25   Link #9511
Qilin
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Oh, my. This thread grew by more than three pages since my last visit.

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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
The issue is does the series really do that anymore. Back when it was somewhat self aware that it was a manga then you could argue it was, but it's no longer self aware with the end of Aijimu's arc and the ability devil style in itself was supposed prevent these occurences from happening.

Currently it's not even mocking shounens it simply is a bad shounen. Ass pulls and a basic lack of logic included.
How about this, what if "All Fiction" could nullify even the effects of "Devil Style"?

I understand that it's a massive piece of speculation, but I don't think it doesn't make sense. Kumagawa is a walking retcon after all.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-06-14 at 17:38.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:30   Link #9512
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My theory is that the nerfed All Fiction cannot "All Fiction" intangibles such as sight and effects of Devils Style.
Rather it is now limited to "All Fiction'ng" tangibles such as nerves connecting eyes and brain to remove eyesight.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:31   Link #9513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
It's called bad writing.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:56   Link #9514
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Emukae didn't decide to "sacrifice" herself. Up until the last moment she was still "maybe even going for the win". I hardly think she was trying to deliberately kill herself, she merely thought the risk was worth it for what she would potentially be able to accomplish.
Not really how the scene was portrayed. The whole confession and erasing her regrets before being killed implied to me that she indeed knew she was going to die.

Then Naze stated it herself, and I just knew it wasn't going to sit right with me.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Emukae didn't mention anything about being "weak and useless" until she was literally about to die. Even though she acknowledged she wasn't powerful (compared to the Suitor, not compared to her allies whom she indeed outlasted) Emukae was persistently shown believing that she could actually accomplish something. That's not Minus; that's the opposite of Minus. The "useless" and only true Minus part of her mentality only came in the final moments when she took the hit, was about to die, and truly not accomplish anything.
That's the whole point of it. Ultimately all Nishio did in the end was emphasize on how useless she was and had to be saved.

Not what I'd consider a good thing to do with her character, I mean, aside from all the Medaka gloryfing he's still doing, and I don't know why.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kugurugi's statement that Emukae's Minus wouldn't work (on her) didn't have anything to do with her ability. Kugurugi explicitly stated that her domination over the SC to that point had been done without her style, with only pure physical ability. Since Emukae's Minus requires the use of her hands, it's obvious Kugurugi only meant that Emukae couldn't touch her. Kugurugi was merely stating her complete superiority over Emukae to the degree that even Emukae's sole weapon wouldn't be any use against her--it wasn't a statement indicating mechanics of their abilities, rather only indicating attitude.
Not exactly, this Emukae can rot the very air. True that the permafrost of the ground impossibilitated Raffrafflesia: Twisted Version, but her air-rotting shouldn't be something you can avoid.

Plus, her wording: 'Sadly, it dosen't work on me' does make it sound simply like the skill just won't work on her. And if she's immune to rotting the very air, well, I don't know what to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Whether or not Devil Style is in play, Kumagawa's only actual offensive capability is his ability to see others' weaknesses. This isn't enough for him to be able to take on truly strong characters in something like a fair or one-on-one battle. Given that Kugurugi has just been stated to be a Suitor "closest to Medaka", I'd say it's hardly a given here that Kumagawa will be a match for her on any sort of direct level. For Kumagawa to stand a chance at actually beating Kugurugi, he will absolutely have to depend on the others there and teamwork.
That's just it though. He might not win outright, but there's absolutely no way for him to lose.

However, there's reason to believe that he'd eventually win, given that he's probably got the absolute best stamina ever, or can just turn that into nothing. Not to mention that his attacks are obviously no joke.

But we'll see. I only said there's now way he'll lose, not that he'll 1-on-1 the Suitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu
The funny part is you're judging character development... before, well you know... it actually completes its course
If he cleans up what I consider 'bad' about what he wrote, he'll obviously get credit from me for that. until t hen though, I think I have every write to call out on his writting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagi
I'm especially bitter about Wolfenstein, since he was the one trying to convince people that Zenkichi's altered god mode wasn't an asspull and it wasn't bad writing, while now he is saying Nisio is a bad writer/made too many bad decisions this chapter simply because the things he wanted for Emukae didn't happen.
I don't know what you're so perturbed about. The ability that had a clear forshadowing to it being shown isn't bad writting, and ultimately made a total of zero difference to the fight. Nishio might as well not even have written it, and no one would tell the difference.

Meanwhile, Kumagawa showing up out of nowhere, with absolutely zero foreshadowing, and this:

Spoiler:


All leads people to believe he was imprisioned. Which is why his appeareance was basically one huge troll. It dosen't even need to be called ass-pull since he clearly did it to not have Emukae die, that's not what's bothering anyone, even though Kumagawa's appereance is pretty distracting.

The problem is his writting of Emukae's character development is extremely flawed, and he used Kumagawa as a means to keep that active.

Or, the other option.

He wanted a reason to re-introduce Kumagawa. Which ultimately led him to mischaracterize how Emukae was chapters ago, and give her some new-found adoration for the perfect Medaka, whom she now wants to be like.

Clearly, Nishio has not read Naruto recently.

Either way, I see both as pretty bad writting. If you don't like that opinion, you're free to try and challenge it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagi
I don't claim to be a true Nisio fan and as I said, a true fan can have negative opinions. However, they at least should be reserved enough to not jump the gun and talk pages and pages making ever growing numbers of assumptions based on a single chapter—and it's very last page nonetheless.
This is a forum for discussion. Discussions entail assumptions. Assumptions and theories(not to mention slandering) are all fun.

I'm not even a fan of the guy, I just like this one manga. I have no reserves about calling any writter on what I believe to be bad character development. That's what a discussion is for.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:59   Link #9515
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarun View Post
My theory is that the nerfed All Fiction cannot "All Fiction" intangibles such as sight and effects of Devils Style.
Rather it is now limited to "All Fiction'ng" tangibles such as nerves connecting eyes and brain to remove eyesight.
Care to explain why?

From my perspective, Medaka Box is just as meta as it ever was, even with the inclusion of Devil Style.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:05   Link #9516
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Care to explain why?

From my perspective, Medaka Box is just as meta as it ever was, even with the inclusion of Devil Style.
Theory is a wrong word to be used there.

More like a guess or prediction since I was wondering how the All Fiction would be not be as unlimited* or dangerous* as before.

* What was the term Ajimu used when describing All Fiction is as no more like?
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:09   Link #9517
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Look, if I read another comment about N****o in this thread... Don't dare to compare that shitty writer or the other shitty one with Nisio who plans things one year ahead.

With that having been said, will you Wolfenstein learn to not jump the bandwagon so hastily and wait till next week so we can get answers? Please.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:13   Link #9518
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarun View Post
Theory is a wrong word to be used there.

More like a guess or prediction since I was wondering how the All Fiction would be not be as unlimited* or dangerous* as before.

* What was the term Ajimu used when describing All Fiction is as no more like?
Huh. Different strokes then, I guess.

As far as I remember it, negating abilities was well within All Fiction's reach, so I'll stick to that. If it was nerfed, I'll just wait to see exactly how it was nerfed.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:14   Link #9519
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Hence why it would be a guess at this point.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:15   Link #9520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Look, if I read another comment about N****o in this thread... Don't dare to compare that shitty writer or the other shitty one with Nisio who plans things one year ahead.

With that having been said, will you Wolfenstein learn to not jump the bandwagon so hastily and wait till next week so we can get answers? Please.
Firstly, calm yourself, please. Getting passionate about a debate is fine, but getting riled never helped anyone.

However, If you mean, jumping on my own bandwagon, since I, alone, came to the conclusion that the content in this chapter was crap, I really don't know how that's possible.

And it's no lie that the contents shown on this chapter right now were of, subjectively, low quality to some people, which leads one to compare to to, subjectively, higher quality work. I'm comparing a plot-point both explored, I believe one did it wrongly while the other did it badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quilin
As far as I remember it, negating abilities was well within All Fiction's reach, so I'll stick to that. If it was nerfed, I'll just wait to see exactly how it was nerfed.
Eh, to be fair, it ultimately failed to erase Raffrafflesia's effect. And All-Fiction can't really work as a shield as much as it makes things as if they never happened. To erase the effects of a passive ability like Devil Style, he'd have to erase the skill it'self.

And If he couldn't do that to another Minus, chances are it's not going to work on a Zero.
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