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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 15 27.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 18.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 3 5.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 16.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 9.09%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 7.27%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 7.27%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 5.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-14, 15:43   Link #221
Thess
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Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
What's the source/article for that? I'm rather curious about reading it. Is it translated? Either way is fine too.

If it's somewhere in this subforum then excuse me. I haven't really found the 'discussions' worth my time bothered checking it that much.
It was in his twitter I think.
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Old 2012-06-14, 15:54   Link #222
kuromitsu
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I skimmed his twitter back until February 5th, and nope, nothing.

Fwiw there was an interview waaay back in... March, I think, when they asked Kaji and Uchiyama about which girl they preferred. And they replied that Mikono wasn't making her feelings clear so Kaji said that momentarily Zessica's "stocks" were higher, and Uchiyama said he'd pick Yunoha. Which should give some ideas about how seriously they were taking the question. (Ah, sorry, I'm interpreting it the wrong way - it clearly means that Kaji hates Mikono and was trying to sabotage the production along with the staff just to spite Kawamori, or whatever the current "theory" is.)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-06-14 at 16:07.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:34   Link #223
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As far as I'm aware the quote was in a magazine (Cool Voice, maybe it was?), an interview that would coincide with their production of episodes (probably) around where we are now. The quote appeared somewhere around the middle to late middle of May, which means it was probably taken prior to May. I have no idea why (ずるい) and (やばい) are in kana, perhaps for emphasis or is it because the word is slang? There was a bit more on him just saying he just didn't like her at all, if I remember correctly.

ミコノはズルい女でヤバイ女 ・アマタとゼシカでくっつけば丸く収まる
- Mikono is an awful, cunning woman. Amata and Zessica should get together.
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Old 2012-06-14, 19:02   Link #224
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I wouldn't' say what she's doing is exactly cunning...
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Old 2012-06-14, 19:07   Link #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post

ミコノはズルい女でヤバイ女 ・アマタとゼシカでくっつけば丸く収まる
- Mikono is an awful, cunning woman. Amata and Zessica should get together.
This just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Zessica, the preferred choice of Amata's seiyu. No wonder Amata couldn't properly reject her.
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Old 2012-06-14, 19:09   Link #226
Vena
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I wouldn't' say what she's doing is exactly cunning...
Take ずるい/ズルイ or cunning, to mean two-faced or dishonest if it makes it more clear as to what he meant.

And I realized why they were written in kana, standards 101.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
This just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Zessica, the preferred choice of Amata's seiyu. No wonder Amata couldn't properly reject her.
I'm a fan of Mikono's VA being unsure if she's the actual main heroine. As much as people harp on Mikono for not doing anything... its been a while since she's done anything but get talked at or be in some perpetual state of plight. (Which, again I'll remind you, Amata seems to have entirely forgotten about in the past two episodes.)
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Old 2012-06-14, 19:34   Link #227
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Can't wait for the next episode..... Amata vs Kagura...

Hope Mikono will make her mind now....
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Old 2012-06-14, 19:47   Link #228
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
ミコノはズルい女でヤバイ女 ・アマタとゼシカでくっつけば丸く収まる
- Mikono is an awful, cunning woman. Amata and Zessica should get together.
I'd have some bones to pick with that translation, on both ends (but I won't because I wouldn't get it right in English anyway, but going without context I'd say here yabai is more like "she's trouble" and zurui unfair or mean, and oops, I'll just stop), but anyway, it's kind of funny that apparently this is the only thing that we have from that interview, which doesn't even seem to be an actual quotation, with no context whatsoever. Ah well. I suppose this proves all conspiracy theories true, so conspiracy theorists and bashers, please go ahead.

(And for that matter I still have no idea why she's supposed to be so bad, but apparently I'm a horrible judge of character.)
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Old 2012-06-14, 20:06   Link #229
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In a causal context I'd map what he said to ~"Mikono's trouble, and a bit heartless. Things'd be smoother if Amata and Zessica got together."

I think that translation was just picking the least-favorable glosses for each adjective, . My suggestion isn't very literal but I think it gets the level of intensity just about right in English.
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Old 2012-06-14, 20:06   Link #230
Vena
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I'd have some bones to pick with that translation, on both ends (but I won't because I wouldn't get it right in English anyway, but going without context I'd say here yabai is more like "she's trouble" and zurui unfair or mean, and oops, I'll just stop), but anyway, it's kind of funny that apparently this is the only thing that we have from that interview, which doesn't even seem to be an actual quotation, with no context whatsoever. Ah well. I suppose this proves all conspiracy theories true, so conspiracy theorists and bashers, please go ahead.

(And for that matter I still have no idea why she's supposed to be so bad, but apparently I'm a horrible judge of character.)
We have conspiracy theories now? Well, good thing I've completely tuned out paying attention.

As for the translation, no matter how you slice and dice the particular vernacular when you put it in colloquial form, its not a flattering description. So it comes down to degrees and word choice and you're ultimately not far off from one side with: "cunning, awful" and "trouble, mean" its just a question of degrees (particularly only in the last word, cunning and trouble are synonymous). I settled for the former because I remember there being more to the interview where he says he just doesn't like Mikono (and neither do I, so I like picking the worst vernacular (bwahahaha)) but, since I cannot find it, that's all sort of a moot point.
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Old 2012-06-14, 20:28   Link #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I'd have some bones to pick with that translation, on both ends (but I won't because I wouldn't get it right in English anyway, but going without context I'd say here yabai is more like "she's trouble" and zurui unfair or mean, and oops, I'll just stop), but anyway, it's kind of funny that apparently this is the only thing that we have from that interview, which doesn't even seem to be an actual quotation, with no context whatsoever. Ah well. I suppose this proves all conspiracy theories true, so conspiracy theorists and bashers, please go ahead.

(And for that matter I still have no idea why she's supposed to be so bad, but apparently I'm a horrible judge of character.)
I don't think she's horrible. In fact, up until the last few episodes, I thought she was a pretty good and well-rounded character (sadly, she's been turned into a plot device like so many other major Aqaurion EVOL characters...).

But here's the two key flaws of Mikono:

1. She takes offense easily, and she doesn't forgive easily. We saw this a lot in the first half of the show when Mikono would get upset over every perceived slight or bit of clumsiness on Amata's part. Now, I think this gives her character a nice edge, but I can see how for some other viewers (male viewers especially) this might make her seem overly high-maintenance. She's someone hard to keep happy and content.

2. She's indecisive and/or too slow to take charge. This is the more problematic issue for me.

The worst thing for Mikono is that her two flaws are strengths for Zessica. So the contrast is just killing Mikono's image in the eyes of a lot of viewers.

Taken out of the love quadrangle, Mikono's not a bad character. In fact, I once liked her a lot. But this anime's narrative has really done a number on her, imo.
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Old 2012-06-14, 21:20   Link #232
Destined_Fate
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Take ずるい/ズルイ or cunning, to mean two-faced or dishonest if it makes it more clear as to what he meant.

And I realized why they were written in kana, standards 101.



I'm a fan of Mikono's VA being unsure if she's the actual main heroine. As much as people harp on Mikono for not doing anything... its been a while since she's done anything but get talked at or be in some perpetual state of plight. (Which, again I'll remind you, Amata seems to have entirely forgotten about in the past two episodes.)
Well that makes much more sense.


I'm getting a Gundam Seed Destiny vibe from all this....
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Old 2012-06-14, 21:54   Link #233
Kakkou
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
It was in his twitter I think.
I would have likely noticed it if it was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
As far as I'm aware the quote was in a magazine (Cool Voice, maybe it was?)
Ah, I think I know which issue that is. Too bad I gave it a pass.

Anyway thanks guys.
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:51   Link #234
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
As far as I'm aware the quote was in a magazine (Cool Voice, maybe it was?), an interview that would coincide with their production of episodes (probably) around where we are now. The quote appeared somewhere around the middle to late middle of May, which means it was probably taken prior to May. I have no idea why (ずるい) and (やばい) are in kana, perhaps for emphasis or is it because the word is slang? There was a bit more on him just saying he just didn't like her at all, if I remember correctly.

ミコノはズルい女でヤバイ女 ・アマタとゼシカでくっつけば丸く収まる
- Mikono is an awful, cunning woman. Amata and Zessica should get together.
I don't agree with Kaji.

I see more Mikono as someone self-centered, she mostly pays attention to herself and her own problems that's why she fails so long to notice how serious Amata is regarding their relationship, and the fact the whole situation also hurts Zessica. She didn't drag them into a see of angst willfully. It's also why she's unable to notice when the guy is sad or give him proper comfort (unlike Zessica)


To be honest I fail to understand why Mikono has to make excuse to Amata. To me it seems he drown himself into self angst about Kagura on his own accord. Unless she realized she's not really into him as much as he's into her and plans to dump him.

As for Zessica, I can understand a little. She wants to make amend either for not having dump Amata or for not having made their relationship official sooner, keeping the girl in a state of false hope making her recovery over one sided love more difficult.


I still think the number one responsible is Amata and his inability to let go.
But as always, it's the woman's fault.
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Old 2012-06-15, 02:32   Link #235
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Well to be fair Amata's VA seems to fancy Zessica more and wouldn't mind letting Mikono go...
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Old 2012-06-15, 08:55   Link #236
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Old 2012-06-15, 10:27   Link #237
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Just a question here! Where's Apollinus?


Closer than you think.
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Old 2012-06-15, 11:55   Link #238
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I think all the hate Mikono gets is unfair, but I chalk this up to the (failed) execution of her character development. I think the goal for Mikono's character was to start her out as being totally passive, utterly lacking in self-confidence, and believing that she is worthless. Over the course of her character arc she was to develop into an active and self-confident heroine, convinced of her own value. But the execution has been poor and she has become frustrating as a character because she seems tripped up by obstacles she has previously overcome.

For example, when Mikono steps in front of Kagura to prevent Amata from shooting him, she has "cleared a hurdle" in a sense. For better or worse, she's no longer passive, no longer useless. This is built on throughout subsequent episodes, where she goes to comfort Yunoha (at Fudo's urging), learns her true "elemental power" and then decides on her own to pursue Fudo. At this point, Mikono isn't the "damsel in distress" we first met. But then, after all this development, Mikono does nothing to intervene in the fight between Amata and Kagura. She just stands there and yells at them to stop. Then she gets abducted by Kagura without resisting and does nothing to prevent him from battling her friends.

What happened to the newly confident and assertive Mikono? What was the point of all that character development if she just goes right back to passive mode when it really matters? Maybe the last few episodes will see her redeem herself, but as it sits right now, her character is right back to being the useless and passive nobody she was in the first episode.

(I also believe that a lot of the fandom sees the destruction of Zessica's (better-liked) character as a way for the writers to build up Mikono, and therefore "blame" Mikono for Zessica's downfall.)

As for her relationships with Amata and Kagura, I think her indecisiveness is actually pretty understandable, at least initially . . .

Spoiler for triangle:
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Old 2012-06-15, 12:54   Link #239
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Well they aren't wrong in getting angry at Mikono over the mistreatment that has been dished out to Zessica since they're both rivals for Amata. So when Mikono benefits Zessica suffers. Though the benefits aren't all that grand compared to the massive suffering Zessica has had thrown at her.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-06-15 at 13:08.
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Old 2012-06-15, 12:57   Link #240
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Trajan: That's a pretty good summary of Mikono's character. She was Ok before the last few episodes, and the last few episodes truly have regressed her character a bit. I do see how passive/weak
to active/self-confident was the character arc they were taking with Mikono, and for a time, it was working.
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