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Old 2012-06-14, 12:54   Link #61
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
One thing I wonder though: Why is anybody with DF able to fight?
Ceasar is a scientist. I expected him to use his ability only for his work and go down in seconds. But instead he also seems to be a capable fighter.

Eh, shounen logic. Why bother questioning it?



Though to be fair, it's not like EVERYONE with a DF is suddenly a combat expert (Wapol sure as heck wasn't one, for instance).....
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Old 2012-06-14, 13:36   Link #62
james0246
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Truthfully, most of the fighting is just as much a form of imagination as it is actual fisticuffs. Foxy is a perfect example of this. He sucks as an actual fighter, so he created ways that he could win relying on his imaginative use of his powers rather than building up his physical/spiritual prowess. Enel is also a good example of this. He is a true stereotypical Logia-user (just standing in place, letting himself get hit), and while less imaginative than someone like Foxy, Enel still managed to create a weak fighting style that utilized his natural Mantra with his new Lightning abilities.
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Old 2012-06-14, 14:17   Link #63
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Enel is weak? Lol people get Carrie away. Luffy has too much PIS going for him in that arc. Enel was faster than him. Sure his attacks didn't work that's becaus he didn't use or know about COA. Don't see luffy winning that fight is enel used his heated weapon. Nobody created a weak fighting style :rolleyes. Good chapter but why are smoshigi and toker standing there. Dont let luffy hog all the action
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Old 2012-06-14, 14:31   Link #64
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^I think he meant that Eneru was "weak" in the sense that he didn't really have much of a fighting style outside of spamming his thunder powers. I mean, sure he had that trident or whatever, but he didn't really use it that much in combat. Now compare that to DF users like, say..... Lucci, who was at least a trained assassin.....
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Old 2012-06-14, 14:51   Link #65
grey_1960
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Chapter 671
That was not a bad chapter. Luffy needs to stop doing stupid things in battle. Inhaling toxin was not a smart idea. I thought CC was going to give Luffy a challenge, the fight was pretty much one sided. It is a shame Smoker does not have his body, he looks so helpless watching Luffy. What is Law's relationship with the mystery man? The Harpy obviously knows him, because she is giggling and she is not being attacked by him. What if Law's father is Dr. Vega Punk, and he is coming back to correct past mistakes? If this character truly is Akoiji, then I am curious to see what kind of scar he has from the battle with Akainu? Second question is why is he keeping tabs on so many of the new generation Pirates? He kept on eye on Luffy and the crew, he kept tabs on Robin, and now Law (If this guy is Akoiji).
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Old 2012-06-14, 15:46   Link #66
james0246
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Originally Posted by Kona View Post
Enel is weak? Lol people get Carrie away. Luffy has too much PIS going for him in that arc. Enel was faster than him. Sure his attacks didn't work that's becaus he didn't use or know about COA. Don't see luffy winning that fight is enel used his heated weapon. Nobody created a weak fighting style :rolleyes. Good chapter but why are smoshigi and toker standing there. Dont let luffy hog all the action
As Marvel wrote, I did not mean that Enel was a weak character (he's still in my Top 10 Strongest), but rather Enel made up for lack of physical prowess (which I called fisticuffs in my post) by creating many overwhelmingly powerful lightning attacks.
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Old 2012-06-14, 17:20   Link #67
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And in some sense, Croc is in that category as well. Basically, if you take their DF power away, their fight ability down down drastically. I mean like BB said, there are DF who got TOO reliant on their DF ability and ignore their basic physical ability that once their DF power is figured out/neutralized they became easy to deal with.

But on the other hand, the fight really wasn't as one sided as some say in this chapter. Luffy only got knock out due to the currently unknown property of CC's DF power, otherwise, he still holds overwhelming advantage physically. If it is indeed poison, the question here is how out of it Luffy is? Can he recover enough to at least push CC away so he can regroup?
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Old 2012-06-14, 22:47   Link #68
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I did not mean that Enel was a weak character (he's still in my Top 10 Strongest)
Here are 10 characters that are undoubtedly more powerful than Enel:

1. Sengoku
2. Garp
3. Aokiji
4. Kizaru
5. Akainu
6. Rayleigh
7. Marco
8. Jozu
9. Mihawk
10. Blackbeard

I don't see how you could possibly place Enel in your top 10 strongest .
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Old 2012-06-14, 23:25   Link #69
Mateus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Here are 10 characters that are undoubtedly more powerful than Enel:

1. Sengoku
2. Garp
3. Aokiji
4. Kizaru
5. Akainu
6. Rayleigh
7. Marco
8. Jozu
9. Mihawk
10. Blackbeard

I don't see how you could possibly place Enel in your top 10 strongest .
That's a good list, though I am surprised though that you didn't put Blackbeard (especially now that he has 2(potentially plus) devil fruits) as number 1 on that list hehe
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Old 2012-06-14, 23:31   Link #70
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Mateus View Post
That's a good list, though I am surprised though that you didn't put Blackbeard (especially now that he has 2(potentially plus) devil fruits) as number 1 on that list hehe
Oh, that list of mine is in no particular order. I just listed off 10 characters that are most definitely stronger than Enel.
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Old 2012-06-15, 00:15   Link #71
Rainbowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Here are 10 characters that are undoubtedly more powerful than Enel:

1. Sengoku
2. Garp
3. Aokiji
4. Kizaru
5. Akainu
6. Rayleigh
7. Marco
8. Jozu
9. Mihawk
10. Blackbeard

I don't see how you could possibly place Enel in your top 10 strongest .
What about Big Mom and Kaidou in a top 12 strongest? Sure we have yet to see them in action but they're undoubtedly more powerful than Enel/Eneru.
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Old 2012-06-15, 00:22   Link #72
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Rainbowman View Post
What about Big Mom and Kaidou in a top 12 strongest? Sure we have yet to see them in action but they're undoubtedly more powerful than Enel/Eneru.
Like I said already, I just arbitrarily listed off 10 characters that are definitely stronger than Enel. Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido, and Dragon (just to name a few), are also guaranteed to be stronger than Enel.
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Old 2012-06-15, 00:51   Link #73
grey_1960
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Enel
2 years ago Enel had Mantra and he did pretty good taking on Luffy. Look at Black Beard he made Yonkou in two years. He would have never stood against some of the people in top 10 two years ago. If Enel gets King haki and Armor Haki, he will be up there with the top fighters. Also Enel's ego up there with some of those fighters on the list. If he makes a come back he may very well be one of the top fighters out there. I am curious how well he will do with against some of the top fighters today?
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:05   Link #74
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Enel
2 years ago Enel had Mantra and he did pretty good taking on Luffy. Look at Black Beard he made Yonkou in two years. He would have never stood against some of the people in top 10 two years ago. If Enel gets King haki and Armor Haki, he will be up there with the top fighters. Also Enel's ego up there with some of those fighters on the list. If he makes a come back he may very well be one of the top fighters out there. I am curious how well he will do with against some of the top fighters today?
Blackbeard was already a monster to begin with, so it was totally expected that he would become a Yonkou within a short time just as Shanks foresaw. Blackbeard was already a very capable fighter even without the darkness fruit. Adding the darkness and quake fruits to his arsenal made him an undisputed contender for ranking amongst the elites.

The only thing Enel has going for him is his hax lightning logia. Other than that, all of his physical stats leave much to be desired. A top-tier fighter would never lose to a pre-time-skip gearless Luffy no matter how disadvantageous the circumstances are.
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:08   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Like I said already, I just arbitrarily listed off 10 characters that are definitely stronger than Enel. Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido, and Dragon (just to name a few), are also guaranteed to be stronger than Enel.
Not to mention Scopper Gaban, Doflamingo, Magellan, the new Admiral, Kong etc.
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Last edited by paradox13; 2012-06-15 at 11:24.
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:32   Link #76
grey_1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Blackbeard was already a monster to begin with, so it was totally expected that he would become a Yonkou within a short time just as Shanks foresaw. Blackbeard was already a very capable fighter even without the darkness fruit. Adding the darkness and quake fruits to his arsenal made him an undisputed contender for ranking amongst the elites.

The only thing Enel has going for him is his hax lightning logia. Other than that, all of his physical stats leave much to be desired. A top-tier fighter would never lose to a pre-time-skip gearless Luffy no matter how disadvantageous the circumstances are.
^
Enel did survive against Luffy, and he could have done away with Luffy but he had the same problem like Croc, he underestimated him and his ego got in the way. You say Enel has his hax Logia but look at Black Beard, he has two devil fruits and still looking. Black Beard was able to take over White Beards property, so Marco and remaining white beard crew were not strong enough, and also he is able to hold his property in the presence of other yonkous. Seems like he has gone through a huge power up over the two years. Look at Luffy and the crew, they have huge power up has well. If Enel makes a comeback do you think he will be the same? He has shown that he is has smart has Robin when figuring out things, do you think he has learned about the other two haki branches? If you are going to name Crocs performance in Alabasta don't for get to mention his performance in Marine Ford. If I remember Croc held his own pretty nicely against Mihawk, which is one of your top 10.
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:39   Link #77
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
Enel did survive against Luffy, and he could have done away with Luffy but he had the same problem like Croc, he underestimated him and his ego got in the way. You say Enel has his hax Logia but look at Black Beard, he has two devil fruits and still looking. Black Beard was able to take over White Beards property, so Marco and remaining white beard crew were not strong enough, and also he is able to hold his property in the presence of other yonkous. Seems like he has gone through a huge power up over the two years. Look at Luffy and the crew, they have huge power up has well. If Enel makes a comeback do you think he will be the same? He has shown that he is has smart has Robin when figuring out things, do you think he has learned about the other two haki branches? If you are going to name Crocs performance in Alabasta don't for get to mention his performance in Marine Ford. If I remember Croc held his own pretty nicely against Mihawk, which is one of your top 10.
It's very possible for Enel to make a comeback into the story. But will he really get such a substantial power boost that would place him amongst the top 10? I highly doubt it. Alabasta Croc is actually no different than Marineford Croc. What we saw from Croc at Marineford was him taking his opponents seriously and not holding back . Of course, this was rightfully so seeing as how there were so many powerful fighters present.
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Old 2012-06-15, 02:56   Link #78
grey_1960
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^
I have no clue if he would get a power boost to put him in the top ten. But I personally think if he makes a come back, oda will not disappoint us.
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Old 2012-06-15, 09:21   Link #79
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Here are 10 characters that are undoubtedly more powerful than Enel:

1. Sengoku
2. Garp
3. Aokiji
4. Kizaru
5. Akainu
6. Rayleigh
7. Marco
8. Jozu
9. Mihawk
10. Blackbeard

I don't see how you could possibly place Enel in your top 10 strongest .
Enel can destroy an Island. Only Whitebeard, Kuzan, Akainu and Blackbeard have been shown to have the power to destroy an island (if Caesar's DF is as powerful as we suspect, then he might join this list as well, even if he sucks as a fighter). Consequently, despite his lack of physical prowess, Enel is still in my Top 10. (That is not to say that I do not think most of the list you've created can't defeat Enel (I do not know about Marco and Jozu, and I've yet to see Mihawk fight a Logia (though I think he would win)).)

But, I will admit that "Strongest" is a very debatable topic. So, how about I simply say Top 10 Most Destructive since, once again, Enel can destroy an island (something very few characters have been shown to be able to do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Scopper Gaban
Kind of a strange addition. I expect Gaban to appear in the story in the future, but you can't really rank him until he appears so there is no reason to include him in this little discussion. (I am surprised that Shiki was not included.)
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Old 2012-06-15, 09:58   Link #80
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How is arabasta croc and marine ford croc the same. You forget about him fighting doflamingo and Mihawk. Apparently they couldn't defeat him.
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