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Old 2012-06-15, 14:56   Link #3421
aeriolewinters
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What we're saying is that Destiny is a spiritual Successor to the Strike, Heck even the Impulse is a successor suit to the Strike, so it's really safe to assume that Kira will do good with it.

Also, why do seem so adamant to defend Shinn, when the only reason he won against Kira is because he had a well-planned strategy along with the Impulse's capabilities. Can you please watch the remaster right now, because I believe you've forgotten everything about Kira, pre-Freedom.


C'mon man, think, Kira is the same guy who simplified piloting for the Naturals by developing a Natural OS. Adjusting the Destiny's settings is going to be an easy task for him.

The problem with people today is that Kira Yamato to them is this guy who only knows how to beamspam, yet they forget how keen Kira was in terms of tactics.

And FYI, Pack Switching exists for the Impulse because Kira did it first without laser guidance, in fact, had Kira immediately died in the first few episodes of SEED, the Impulse would've not existed.

Like I've always said, Kira and Destiny are a dangerous mixture, saying otherwise with the reasoning that Kira doesn't know how to use it, is like saying Kira didn't pilot the Strike.


Also, The Perfect Strike is not comparable to Destiny in terms of specifications, yes: but the concept is the same. All the Strike's/Impulse's packs/silhouettes in one package. How can't you not understand that, either you're having difficulty accepting that, or you're blinded by your extreme bias towards Shinn and against Kira.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:01   Link #3422
Destined_Fate
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Not at all because the Destiny isn't the same as them. It's a huge improvement that incorporates all the packs in ways the Strike or even the failed Perfect Strike simply couldn't do. Not even the Impulse can do anything near the level that the Destiny can accomplish. Than there's the part that it's based heavily off the Battle Data from Shinn while he was in the Impulse which is far different than how Kira fights.

That was Old Kira who doesn't exist anymore in Destiny. New Kira only Beam spams and Destiny did nothing to change that notion. Instead they took it to the next level with him regulated to almost nothing but beam spamming everyone. When he tried to not beam spam on Shinn in Freedom vs Impulse he ended losing, he just isn't as skilled at other ways of fighting anymore which makes sense because the Strike and Strike Freedom were made for long range Beam Spam with the other capabilities faltering as a result. It was his mistake to think he stood a chance in melee combat against the Impulse when that was clearly not the case at all.

Fact is that the Destiny, that was made for Shinn, will always be far surperior in his hands than Kira or Athrun. Also the concept is the same idea but the end result is far different. Thats like saying an Oven is the same as a Microwave, they both do the same thing but are far different.

You need to drop using the bias card. Only cowards use such a weak arguement to try and validate their claims against anothers.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:10   Link #3423
monster
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Not at all because the Destiny isn't the same as them. It's a huge improvement that incorporates all the packs in ways the Strike or even the failed Perfect Strike simply oouldn't do. Not even the Impulse can do anything near the level that the Destiny can accomplish.
You're still ignoring the fact that being better than Strike and Impulse doesn't make it impossible for Kira to pilot Destiny and pilot it well.
Quote:
Than there's the part that it's based heavily off the Battle Data from Shinn which is far different than how Kira fights.
Except, as a general-purpose mobile suit, it is inherent in Destiny's design to allow for variations in piloting styles. And again, Kira would also be able to modify it to suit his preference.
Quote:
That was Old Kira who doesn't exist anymore in Destiny. New Kira only Beam spams and Destiny did nothing to change that notion. Instead they took it to the next level with him regulated to almost nothing but beam spamming everyone. When he tried to not beam spam on Shinn in Freedom vs Impulse he ended losing, he just isn't as skilled at other ways of fighting anymore which makes sense because the Strike and Strike Freedom were made for long range Beam Spam with the other capabilities faltering as a result. It was his mistake to think he stood a chance in melee combat against the Impulse when that was clearly not the case at all.
With that kind of thinking, you should have no problem with Shinn losing to Athrun. After all, that's the new Shinn. The old Shinn that defeated Freedom in Impulse doesn't exist anymore.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:25   Link #3424
Rising Dragon
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Nice to see what I said about not getting into the Kira/Shinn debate went completely ignored. *sigh* Christ you people are adamant about that argument. What's the appeal for it? I'm honestly curious that it has so many people enthralled in continuing it despite the fact that pretty much every single angle and detail has been considered and debated already.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:37   Link #3425
monster
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I'm honestly curious that it has so many people enthralled in continuing it despite the fact that pretty much every single angle and detail has been considered and debated already.
Well, there's always new members.
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:01   Link #3426
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Nice to see what I said about not getting into the Kira/Shinn debate went completely ignored. *sigh* Christ you people are adamant about that argument. What's the appeal for it? I'm honestly curious that it has so many people enthralled in continuing it despite the fact that pretty much every single angle and detail has been considered and debated already.
This isn't a Kira vs Shinn debate, I gave Kira where it was due but I also give Shinn all the credit he deserves since he actually dead beat Kira rather easily in the Impulse vs Freedom fight and that the Destiny was made entirely for him thus no one will ever be able to use it the same way he can. Just like how the Strike Freedom ignores all the weaknesses Kira has and just builds on his strengths which was beam spamming ever since he got the Freedom.
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Old 2012-06-15, 18:47   Link #3427
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
This isn't a Kira vs Shinn debate, I gave Kira where it was due but I also give Shinn all the credit he deserves since he actually dead beat Kira rather easily in the Impulse vs Freedom fight and that the Destiny was made entirely for him thus no one will ever be able to use it the same way he can. Just like how the Strike Freedom ignores all the weaknesses Kira has and just builds on his strengths which was beam spamming ever since he got the Freedom.
What are the weaknesses that you are talking about? What are the major flaws in Freedom's design that need improvement? And what's wrong with building on one's strength?

I finished reading your little discussion with Monster and Aeriolewinters and it's going nowhere, just like that discussion you had with me.. You are just making one baseless claim after another.. It's ok if you just want to say stuff, but when you are doing that at least have an example to backup your claim so that it not completely pointless.

I'm saying this to help you. Not everyone in this forum is as kind as I am.
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:59   Link #3428
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
What are the weaknesses that you are talking about? What are the major flaws in Freedom's design that need improvement? And what's wrong with building on one's strength?

I finished reading your little discussion with Monster and Aeriolewinters and it's going nowhere, just like that discussion you had with me.. You are just making one baseless claim after another.. It's ok if you just want to say stuff, but when you are doing that at least have an example to backup your claim so that it not completely pointless.
Thatís right, Kaito-kid. Heís been spouting baseless claims again and again.

Hereís some of the prominent examples:

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Fact is that the Destiny, that was made for Shinn, will always be far surperior in his hands than Kira or Athrun.
LOL, this is ridiculous, thereís no proof of that coz neither Kira or Athrun ever touch Destiny, let alone pilot it. Thereís nothing to compare to begin with. Itís only your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
What Kira used was a cheap imitation that doesn't hold a candle to the real deal.
Another opinion. Strike Freedomís Dragoons never fought Providenceís Dragoons to back up your claim. The comparison between the two is not as obvious as an F-22 can definitely beat a P-40. And Strike Freedom did beat Legend when both fought at their prime condition. Now thatís a fact.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Kira wouldn't be very comfortable in it at all since the Destiny does more than just Beam Spam.
Just like monster said, this claim is baseless and doesnít even make sense. Kira can fight in Melee battle just fine. He can slash two MSs (Ginns, Daggers, etc) in one go in the blink of eye with Freedomís beam sabers. And itís not like Destiny doesnít use beam weapons. It has one on the back and two on its palms + 1 beam rifle.

Thereís plenty more baseless claims, but I wonít bother. Itís useless to debate proof-less claims. Sigh....Iíd better save my thoughts for better discussions. Iím done here.
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Old 2012-06-15, 22:35   Link #3429
tetsuo69
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destiny ep 34 - kira start the battle way before shinn arrives to fight kira, minerva arrives and starts to attack archangel, this gets kira worry and tries to get back to archangel. shin appears which proves shin is set to take down freedom not letting him get to archanel. by the time the battle ends, kira has disable once impulse, shin has taken full advantage of kira no kill policy, kira is to distracted to pay attention to shin which result in kira losing the battle and shin winning it.

now the people that always defend shin win , often say its perfectly fine cause shin used strategy and that its kira own fault that he wasn't paying attention, and yet they are the first ones to always say that in ep 23 if i'm not mistaken when kira appear in the orb battle that the only reason why he was able to disable shin so easy was cause he was surprise.

its only fair against kira but not aginst shin .... if we go by their logic its shin fault for being surprise of a new mobile suit.... LOL
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Old 2012-06-15, 23:47   Link #3430
Yesman
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Thatís right, Kaito-kid. Heís been spouting baseless claims again and again.
Isn't it also baseless to claim that Kira can pilot the Destiny just as well as Shinn just because "lolperfectstrike=Destiny!"? Are they seriously arguing about that?
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Old 2012-06-15, 23:59   Link #3431
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Isn't it also baseless to claim that Kira can pilot the Destiny just as well as Shinn just because "lolperfectstrike=Destiny!"? Are they seriously arguing about that?
I think I'll respond to you since you're a different poster.

Ok, I never claim that Kira can pilot Destiny as well as Shinn. I only said that there's no proof that Kira can't pilot Destiny as well as Shinn. You know the difference, right ?

As for Perfect Strike & Destiny. I don't think we can gauge or compare between the two since we never seen Perfect Strike fights anything (so far) to provide us with some semblance of comparison material. We don't know (so far) whether Perfect Strike is fast or slow (due to the heavy pack), or how it effectively use all the weapons it has.
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Old 2012-06-16, 00:09   Link #3432
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by tetsuo69 View Post
destiny ep 34 - kira start the battle way before shinn arrives to fight kira, minerva arrives and starts to attack archangel, this gets kira worry and tries to get back to archangel. shin appears which proves shin is set to take down freedom not letting him get to archanel. by the time the battle ends, kira has disable once impulse, shin has taken full advantage of kira no kill policy, kira is to distracted to pay attention to shin which result in kira losing the battle and shin winning it.

now the people that always defend shin win , often say its perfectly fine cause shin used strategy and that its kira own fault that he wasn't paying attention, and yet they are the first ones to always say that in ep 23 if i'm not mistaken when kira appear in the orb battle that the only reason why he was able to disable shin so easy was cause he was surprise.

its only fair against kira but not aginst shin .... if we go by their logic its shin fault for being surprise of a new mobile suit.... LOL
Not going to respond to you because quite frankly I can't bring myself to read a post like that. At least try and format it in a way that isn't a pain to the eyes?

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Isn't it also baseless to claim that Kira can pilot the Destiny just as well as Shinn just because "lolperfectstrike=Destiny!"? Are they seriously arguing about that?
I'm just putting them on ignore. Would be a waste of my time to deal with those that must resort to personal attacks.

Their claim is baseless because the show makes it a point that the Destiny was made for Shinn and it incorporated a lot of the Battle Data from Shinn's time in the Impulse. Which he used and handled far differently than Kira in the Strike. Such as Shinn being more prone to switch beween packs in the middle of a battle compared to Kira who didn't have the luxury against strong opponents because of how the Strike's System works compared to the improved system the Impulse used and even that had weaknesses. Hence the creation of the Destiny which dropped the inefficient switching system(Which was a liability against strong opponents. SEED even reinforces this hence why Kira was given the specialized long range Freedom as an upgrade) infavor of a system that could use all the packs at the same time in a fluid manner.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-06-16 at 00:26.
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Old 2012-06-16, 00:11   Link #3433
Yesman
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Ok, I never claim that Kira can pilot Destiny as well as Shinn. I only said that there's no proof that Kira can't pilot Destiny as well as Shinn. You know the difference, right ?
I know the difference. I'm just pointing out that an argument works both ways, is all. And I did say "They" not "you", so I wasn't really talking about you. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 2012-06-16, 00:34   Link #3434
monster
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I know the difference. I'm just pointing out that an argument works both ways, is all.
Sure, which is why I try not to make such comparisons.

But, if we're talking specifically about Kira and not try to compare him with Shinn, then there are three reasons to say that Kira would do well with Destiny:

First, Kira was able to handle Strike after a few minutes of seeing Murrue piloting it.

Second, Destiny, unlike Providence, does not have any feature that would require any specific skill.

Third, most of Destiny's equipment: beam rifle, saber/boomerang, sword, and cannon, are the same type of weapons that Kira have used before.

You combine the three reasons above, and you have enough basis for saying that Kira could believably do well with Destiny.

Not to mention that, if you add the time for Kira to familiarize himself with it and allow him to modify the Destiny like he does with his other mobile suits, then there's no reason to doubt that Kira could handle Destiny.

Notice, again, that I'm not saying anything about how well he would pilot the Destiny compared to Shinn. On the other hand, saying that Kira would be uncomfortable in Destiny, and because it "does more than beam spam" of all reasons, is completely baseless.
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Old 2012-06-16, 11:43   Link #3435
hero147
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Sure, which is why I try not to make such comparisons.

But, if we're talking specifically about Kira and not try to compare him with Shinn, then there are three reasons to say that Kira would do well with Destiny:

First, Kira was able to handle Strike after a few minutes of seeing Murrue piloting it.
This. Seriously. Did the series need to physically slap its audience even more to showcase Kira's resilience in using whatever is given to him? It was plastered all over the beginning of seed. It's essentially the same concept in asking if Kira could pilot the strike before his debut and guess what? He ended up getting shit done. While I guess this is conjecture, but I would have to say Kira could pretty damn well pilot the Destiny.

I'm starting to think Destined_Fate is a troll or trolololol or whatever the internet meme nowadays is. Sorry if that offended anyone, but I'm beginning to sense blatant hypocrisy in his posts.

P.S. In assessing all 3 pilot's strengths, battle records are pretty inconsistent, even more so since we, as an audience, don't see everything. However, the show does lean on Kira being the best pilot, several times in seed and destiny especially (I think...haven't seen destiny in years).
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Old 2012-06-16, 12:33   Link #3436
Om Nerabdator
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im pretty sure ive mentioned this before but to anyone who watched destiny did you also noticed the paper,scissor,rock thing going on

shin beats kira
kira beats athrun
athrun beats shin

whenever they fight it feels like this
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:08   Link #3437
kakakka
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Second, Destiny, unlike Providence, does not have any feature that would require any specific skill.
I think Destiny is like Strike IWSP; it should also requires tremendous skill to use, if not some specific skill. But also, keep in mind from what I know, Kira was able to use the Strike IWSP, which means he should be able to pilot the Destiny as well.
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:43   Link #3438
monster
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But also, keep in mind from what I know, Kira was able to use the Strike IWSP, which means he should be able to pilot the Destiny as well.
The Strike IWSP is an MSV suit. I don't think Kira has ever used it, although there's no reason to think he couldn't.
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Old 2012-06-16, 15:46   Link #3439
Destined_Fate
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No, Kira could get it to work but Kira wouldn't be able to use the Destiny as well as Shinn can since it was made for Shinn and his battle style, not Kira's. Just like Kira would be utterly lost compared to Athrun if he was put inside the Infinite Justice that handles far differently than the Strike Freedom.

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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
I think Destiny is like Strike IWSP; it should also requires tremendous skill to use, if not some specific skill. But also, keep in mind from what I know, Kira was able to use the Strike IWSP, which means he should be able to pilot the Destiny as well.
Strike IWSP wasn't used in the anime and Kira never piloted it, not to mention that the IWSP was initially meant for Cagalli and her Strike Rouge but it was scrapped. Again the IWSP(Which was just a crazy idea to throw all the packs on, it ended up scrapped) is nothing like the Destiny which was tailor made for Shinn based off all the data that was gathered from Shinn's time in the Impulse. It isn't the same thing as Kira jumping in an unfinished Strike.
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Old 2012-06-16, 16:05   Link #3440
monster
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No, Kira could get it to work
That is what several people have been telling you.
Quote:
but Kira wouldn't be able to use the Destiny as well as Shinn can
The original aeriolewinters' post which started this particular topic was talking about a hypothetical situation where Kira pilots the Destiny and Shinn pilots the Strike Freedom. And while I don't necessarily agree with aeriolewinters' conclusion, whether Kira is able to use the Destiny as well as Shinn isn't as relevant as whether he can use the Destiny better than Shinn can use the Strike Freedom.

And for the record, I don't really have any guesses either way because I think they're both capable pilots.

Of course, then you went and made that (in my opinion, ignorant) comment about Destiny doing more than beam spam, thus Kira would not be comfortable with it. That's where I really have to draw the line.
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