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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 62 48.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 28.35%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 11.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 3.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.36%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.36%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.36%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-16, 20:33   Link #61
Flawfinder
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Then mess with the source material a little bit. Of course, that wouldn't have mattered. The direction was horrible in the Stay Night anime.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:34   Link #62
matapat
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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
The end of the Fate route wasn't DEEN's fault. That's just what happened in the source material.
Yeah, you're probably right, the bulk of Kotomine's best scenes were in HF, which I really wanna see animated now considering how strongly F/Z ties into it.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:35   Link #63
mAc Chaos
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Then mess with the source material a little bit. Of course, that wouldn't have mattered. The direction was horrible in the Stay Night anime.
They did that and that was part of why the direction was considered terrible. :P

The thing is, a lot of characters didn't get their chance to shine in the Fate route since it's meant to just be the introduction to the Fate world. It has a lot of awesome moments, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:40   Link #64
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"Butchered" is probably too strong a term, yeah.

But I think that ufotable can be rightly faulted a bit here. Again, because of the loli-Rin episode. You only mess around with that sort of stuff when you have time for it and all of the important plot/subplots, imo (and King Arthur vs. Sir Lancelot seems pretty darn important to me).

All the same, Fate/Zero is still the best anime show of 2012 so far, imo.
Ironically, while I complained about it initially, the loli-Rin episode was one of my favorites in the series because I thought Rin was a more compelling character than most of the others.

As for how I'd rank Fate/Zero, it's struggling to be in my top 10 of 2012. Ignoring my problems with the characters and dialogue, (after all, Madoka Magica was my favorite of 2011) for something with high production values, the animation is surprisingly bad in this show. It stopped being bad around Episode 21, but even this episode had long distance/static shots that lasted more than twenty seconds (although thankfully, there wasn't a lot of them).

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They did that and that was part of why the direction was considered terrible. :P
I meant the animation direction. For all the crap I give to this anime's terrible animation direction (standouts being Episodes 1, 4, and 20), the first series was worse. Future Diary at its best had better direction than that show, and that anime came from asread.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:41   Link #65
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I was wondering why Kirei used two commands seals on Saber, but then I remembered that her high magic resistance allows her to resist the absolute order to some degree and explains why he had to use two.

Was kind of bummed they didn't expand on Kariya or Lancelot's background and had to cut it short to make room for Kirei and Kotomine's duel. At least the duel was done very well and executed.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:43   Link #66
matapat
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Ironically, while I complained about it initially, the l
As for how I'd rank Fate/Zero, it's struggling to be in my top 10 of 2012.
Curiously what would you put in your top 10 to this point? I haven't been watching as much anime as I did before but even last year I had Fate/Zero season 1 as my #2 series to Madoka and I've found S2 to be considerably better. I'd be amazed if that many quality shows have come out this year.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:47   Link #67
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just nocticed that this ep air on father day, quite fitting i guess. first mother day now this, ufotable must love to play around with mother and father day, whoever schedule the episode airing must hate their parent or something.

Fate Zero always knows the best ways to celebrate the holidays.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:52   Link #68
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You mean a bunch of lines were cut from the original source material? All I can say to that is YES! Finally, this series got a good editor who can cut out unnecessary lines (Episode 4 still haunts me).
Lines that trash the entire Berserker plot if they are removed, you can't just remove lines at random. Now it's literally just "Lancelot?" "ARTHURRRR".

Also I actually liked the Rin episode a lot, it was really well directed and drawn.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:57   Link #69
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Curiously what would you put in your top 10 to this point? I haven't been watching as much anime as I did before but even last year I had Fate/Zero season 1 as my #2 series to Madoka and I've found S2 to be considerably better. I'd be amazed if that many quality shows have come out this year.
Fate/Zero did get better with the second half, but the problem is that I count both halves as one series, because S1 and S2 do not stand on their own, and honestly, the only reason we had a "S2" is because the break was needed for production value reasons (don't know why, as there wasn't much dynamic animation in the first half, especially when you compare it to Shaft).

And it's not like the shows I like more than this are better quality. It's just that they fit to my taste more. For example, I like Aquarion Evol more because of its cheesiness, its hilarious sex jokes, and the fact that it has a character named Andy W Hol. I could care less about the plot in that show. Plus, we have more shows in the Summer and Fall season. And my list includes movies, so...
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:08   Link #70
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Lines that trash the entire Berserker plot if they are removed, you can't just remove lines at random. Now it's literally just "Lancelot?" "ARTHURRRR".
Oh, I thought that was one of those subplots that was explained, but I forgot, because I don't care about Saber or her history. Instead of excluding Episode 10 though, they should have just combined Episodes 4 and 5, because having to spend two episodes on only one fight scene is going into DBZ territory.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:09   Link #71
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Needs more DBZ, not less. Their problem already is condensing too much.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:17   Link #72
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I'm a bit disappointed what Saber and gilgamesh didn't even get a chance to even cross blades when kiritsugu appeared/before appearance.

It's clear that we NEEDED one additional episode.

One that could expand Berserker's character, and then end it with Kiritsugu choking iris. And then continue the next ep as planned.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:24   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
"Butchered" is probably too strong a term, yeah.

But I think that ufotable can be rightly faulted a bit here. Again, because of the loli-Rin episode. You only mess around with that sort of stuff when you have time for it and all of the important plot/subplots, imo (and King Arthur vs. Sir Lancelot seems pretty darn important to me).

All the same, Fate/Zero is still the best anime show of 2012 so far, imo.
Actually, they had a good reason for the Rin episode. It was to show her bond to Tokiomi to develop part of his tragedy and the other thing I'll share in the future since it may be a spoiler. I say 'may' since I haven't read the novel and am going on an interview from the BD box set and they may have changed their plans since then, in other words, it may not even happen. I don't know if it's from the novel or original, so yeah.

AND, think about the pacing of the first season. Taking Rin's episode out would have put things a little off track. They have ~25 minutes each episode and they have to end each one in a proper place. It's one challenge in adapting the written word to the screen.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:25   Link #74
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Originally Posted by matapat View Post
Great episode from the main parts of what we got. The Kiritsugu/Kotomine fight was superbly animated, and really showcases what a monster of a villain Kotomine was and how badly DEEN's animation of Stay/Night butchered that.
Totally agree.

Kiritsugu vs. Kotomine was everything I had hoped for, and then some. Best one-on-one fight I've seen in anime in a loooong time. Just marvelously choreographed, truly competitive, and very badass.


Quote:

Kiritsugu had to use his Bullet Time magic numerous times and Avalon's 1-Up effect to just to barely hang on. And the Grail portion, Triple R put it great.
Thanks!

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It was fantastic watching Angra Mainyu mindf*** Kiritsugu and deconstruct his childish wish to it's horrifyingly logical conclusion. Talk about the World's Most Sadistic Division Problem
Yeah, I loved the way that all played out. Like another poster or two said, it was NGE-esque in being horrific, but in a neat, trippy way.

I love how Gen can be dark without it seeming like some pointless snuff film (although I have to admit it's darkly hilarious how often characters were getting killed by simple, old-fashioned choking in these last few episodes ). This was as practical and purposeful as it gets.


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It's a shame they so badly cut down Saber/Berserker to the point where Lancelot's character ended up having even less character development than cannon fodder Assassin did in season 1. I'd love to see the full fight fleshed out in BD, but after seeing the relatively good job they did cutting down the King's Feast in S1, seeing this hack job to Arturia/Lancelot was disappointing by comparison
I'll admit to a bit of a bias here. I'm a fan of the old Arthurian Legend, and so I was really looking forward to seeing a neat, new spin on it by having a female Arthur be confronted by a pissed off Lancelot, all in a modern setting.

It was still a great episode, but what was cut is a lot of what I was looking forward to.


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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Ironically, while I complained about it initially, the loli-Rin episode was one of my favorites in the series because I thought Rin was a more compelling character than most of the others.
I liked the loli-Rin episode. It's just, to me, you can get that sort of moetastic episode in all sorts of anime, several per season usually.

But this - What we've seen this episode and throughout this entire 2nd cour of Fate/Zero really - This is special, imo.

But I guess that's where our tastes diverge.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:26   Link #75
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for those that complained about the loli Rin episode

it would be a far bigger crime if they cut ep11 into one and a half episodes and ruining the pacing. Remember ep10 is necessary to provide an update on Kariya and his progressively twisted motivation, and is vital in that part of the story since after that there's no chance for him to meet up with Aoi in a peaceful environment anymore.

So what did Ufotable do with the 10min vacant space for that episode? Expand the characters in the Tohsaka family and provides more insight into Tokiomi as a character. Remember that loli Rin learnt her pride, belief, and resolve from her father. By letting her having more air time we see how well of a father and an educator Tokiomi is.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:30   Link #76
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for those that complained about the loli Rin episode

it would be a far bigger crime if they cut ep11 into one and a half episodes and ruining the pacing. Remember ep10 is necessary to provide an update on Kariya and his progressively twisted motivation, and is vital in that part of the story since after that there's no chance for him to meet up with Aoi in a peaceful environment anymore.

So what did Ufotable do with the 10min vacant space for that episode? Expand the characters in the Tohsaka family and provides more insight into Tokiomi as a character. Remember that loli Rin learnt her pride, belief, and resolve from her father. By letting her having more air time we see how well of a father and an educator Tokiomi is.
... That's what I said. But, it'll go unheard of since Triple R's ginormous post will cover it up.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:31   Link #77
mAc Chaos
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What did you guys make of the whole dream scene with Kiritsugu whittling away at the people he was saving. I wasn't sure how it was supposed to deconstruct his ideal, even though I know it was supposed to.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:32   Link #78
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But this - What we've seen this episode and throughout this entire 2nd cour of Fate/Zero really - This is special, imo.

But I guess that's where our tastes diverge.
Personally, my special episode was last week's, because I'm not a fan of the other characters besides Rider/Waver. I'll probably explain why when the show finishes, but the short answer is that I'm not a huge fan of stoic badasses, especially when almost all the characters are like that.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:36   Link #79
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Actually, they had a good reason for the Rin episode. It was to show her bond to Tokiomi to develop part of his tragedy and the other thing I'll share in the future since it may be a spoiler. I say 'may' since I haven't read the novel and am going on an interview from the BD box set and they may have changed their plans since then, in other words, it may not even happen. I don't know if it's from the novel or original, so yeah.

AND, think about the pacing of the first season. Taking Rin's episode out would have put things a little off track. They have ~25 minutes each episode and they have to end each one in a proper place. It's one challenge in adapting the written word to the screen.
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
for those that complained about the loli Rin episode

it would be a far bigger crime if they cut ep11 into one and a half episodes and ruining the pacing. Remember ep10 is necessary to provide an update on Kariya and his progressively twisted motivation, and is vital in that part of the story since after that there's no chance for him to meet up with Aoi in a peaceful environment anymore.

So what did Ufotable do with the 10min vacant space for that episode? Expand the characters in the Tohsaka family and provides more insight into Tokiomi as a character. Remember that loli Rin learnt her pride, belief, and resolve from her father. By letting her having more air time we see how well of a father and an educator Tokiomi is.
Sorry, guys, but you're not changing my mind on this.

I'm sure that there's other ways they could have accounted for the more important aspects of the loli-Rin episode without devoting almost an entire episode to loli-Rin.

And honestly, I found the pacing during Fate/Zero's first cour too slow at times. The Loli-Rin episode contributed to that slow pacing, imo.

Finally, it's not like people sympathized with Tokiomi all that much even with the loli-Rin episode. I should know, as I'm one of the few who defended him a bit.


Personally, I would have been much more pleased if the TV airing had no loli-Rin episode, and through saving some time that way, we'd have more time dedicated to the final Saber/Berserker fight.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:37   Link #80
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... That's what I said. But, it'll go unheard of since Triple R's ginormous post will cover it up.
yeah well, it takes more than 2 mins to type up my post :P


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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Personally, I would have been much more pleased if the TV airing had no loli-Rin episode, and through saving some time that way, we'd have more time dedicated to the final Saber/Berserker fight.
the point i'm trying to make is, you can't simply take away that ep10 since it's vital for Kariya. He already doesn't have enough screentime as it is. Tokiomi isn't the main focus here, but a by-product
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