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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 15 27.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 18.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 3 5.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 16.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 9.09%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 7.27%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 7.27%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 5.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-16, 06:24   Link #261
BetoJR
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I don't think Apollonius will approve of everyone making a mockery of his love for Celiane. Bad enough that his own dog betrayed him and hyjacked the promise....
Erm... He never made any kind of promise, did he?
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Old 2012-06-16, 10:37   Link #262
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I agree that it seems that Zessica is there to make Mikono's flaws stand out. That's really screwing over Mikono. I don't get why the writers would do that? To make them contrast even more? I would it get that if that's what they were going for but they could have done it better.
Mikono and Zessica did talk about what they liked about each other/felt jealous about the other one for back in the banana episode. Mikono would like to become someone who's able to express herself as well as Zessica can, and admires her for that, and Zessica likes that Mikono is kind and cares about people, and, uh, that she's the type of girl who guys like to protect. (Which is a pity for Mikono because she wants to become the sort of person who isn't always being protected.)

But despite that, at this point in the series I have the feeling that Zessica's main role lies in comparisons of her to Mykage. If the plot for her doesn't progress in the way I'm hoping it will (or something better than I have in mind), I will be really annoyed.

As I'm sure I've mentioned many times, one of the things that's bugged me in Aquarion is what a hash the writers have made of Zessica's character. She turned into a person who is defined solely by her love for Amata. It's plain old character assassination. Like Mikono's lack of decision making and the whole Amata/Mikono romance getting put on pause, Zessica was put on pause too, and not given a chance to either (a) get over Amata, or (b) demonstrate that her whole life and character doesn't revolve around him.

So, why are the writers doing this? The "love triangles" in the series were never proper love triangles. Amata never really showed interest in Zessica, and Mikono never really showed interest in Kagura. But it was still all dragged out. It's clear that Amata/Mikono's development had to be frozen for plot-related reasons, in order to spook Amata and Zessica into thinking Kagura could be a threat, while keeping the Kagura=Amata thing secret. Zessica...I suppose she could have been kept moping just for her role as an accessory to all that, but that would be very flimsy.

But hark! It's not all Zessica's here for. She gets to be taken over by Mykage, who feels sympathetic towards her because it's clear that she's already lost the person she really wants. So - there are two ways this can all go, now.

(A) Zessica's role in plot activity really was just to make her a damsel in bodysnatched distress, which would suck, and which I would not put past the writers at this point. After all, they spent time building up Mikono's character but then instantly put her into a situation where there was nothing she could do but yell for various people to stop fighting. The writers have no problem with making sure that characters can't take action, as long as it helps the plot along.

I really don't want that to be the case, and in my opinion, the writers will be severely wasting the potential of the series if they don't take option (B). (B) is that actually, there was a reason why Zessica was built up as sympathetic but utterly screwed in the love department, and a reason why the writers would not simply let her get over it. It has to be because she needs to be that way in order to mirror Mykage. Because she has to be the one to defeat Mykage. Mykage is Toma's dark side, full of angst and bitterness over his now-unrequited love. He even picked Zessica because of her similarities to him.

One of Zessica's strengths as a character is that although she really really wanted Amata for herself, she didn't blame him for not loving her, and didn't blame Mikono for being the one he loved. Her love is genuine. Well, Mykage's is genuine too, but he's got problems with the whole twisted and rage-filled thing, and right now it's apparently leading him to a "kill all humans rargh" point of view.

And Mykage has possessed Zessica. In a way, this has left him especially vulnerable to her, hasn't it? If she can fight back, she has seriously got access to Mykage. He is right there in the body of someone who feels similar pain to him but isn't encumbered with the bitterness of 24,000 years. It will be a cop out if Zessica gets killed and takes Mykage with her. It could happen...but it would be a sucky ending for both of them. Zess had a bright future ahead of her, and it's about time that Mykage's anger came to an end. The cycle of continuing angst for him really needs to stop. But perhaps what Zessica will do is fight against Mykage and by example change him in a way which will stop the cycle. If anyone in the story can do that, it should be Zessica.

On the other hand, if Fudo is part of Apollonius, maybe he's going to man up and actually do something. Like talking to Mykage and suggesting counseling. Because in the end, this is still over over Toma's distress because Apollonius left him. Yes, yes, he's not responsible for the man he left at the altar, but after 24,000 years one would have thought he'd do something about this other than cryptically encourage teenagers to fight in mecha.
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Old 2012-06-16, 12:28   Link #263
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This is what I think the writers were aiming for with the love quadrangle:

1. AmataXMikono is the main pairing, and we'll establish that by getting them off to a fast start (which, to their credit, they did).

2. We'll have rivals on both sides (a male rival for Amata, a female rival for Mikono) to stretch out the romance conflict/drama of the anime narrative. By making it a "two-front war", this will effectively "kill time" until Amata and Mikono have their big, heartwarming romantic moment in the last episode or two. This will be the ultimate romance climax experience, as long-suffering and patient AmataXMikono shippers (which meant Aquarion EVOL fans in general, Kawamori was probably hoping) finally get to see the two come together in a clear-cut and powerful way.

3. The male rival - Kagura - will be the main "front-line" antagonist of the show, and will play an important role in most of our action scenes.

4. The female rival - Zessica - will be the main female "action star". Like Kagura, she'll play an important role in action scenes, only from the protagonist side.

5. 3 and 4 ensures that Kagura and Zessica maintain plot relevance above and beyond romance conflict alone.

6. 5 is important since we intend to use Kagura and Zessica in convenient ways to build up the drama of the show, as well as contribute to Amata/Mikono's character development.


Here's the sad truth, I think - I don't think that Kagura and Zessica were ever important in and of themselves from the writing staff's perspective. In other words, they were what I could call "complimentary characters" - There to serve whatever role the true main characters and the plot required of them.

This is where I think the writing staff goofed. Zessica and Kagura were simply intended to be the romance equivalent of Team Rocket - There simply to ensure conflict, and ultimately to "put over" Amata Ketchum and his dear MikoChu. Amata and Mikono being less popular than Kagura and Zessica (respectively) was a totally unforeseen and unplanned development, I think. That's partly why Kawamori is so bothered by it, I think - It throws a mighty wrench into his plans.


It's also why I'm not hopeful about Zessica and Kagura's final fate. They've served their purposes, now they're probably going to die or get absorbed...
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Old 2012-06-16, 14:52   Link #264
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Triple_R I'm not too hopeful about what's in store either. Kagura's voice over during the preview was a huge death flag.

GoldenLand I definitely agree with everything you said. The only way I can see this series ending in a satisfying way is that they break the whole reincarnation cycle. But, they're probably not gonna go for that.

What type of ending you guys think they're gonna go for? Will it be good or bad?
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Old 2012-06-16, 14:59   Link #265
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Triple_RWhat type of ending you guys think they're gonna go for? Will it be good or bad?
A DTB-RnG ending type, with additional drama.
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Old 2012-06-16, 15:11   Link #266
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A DTB-RnG ending type, with additional drama.
Yeah, it should definitely be bittersweet. If we get a straight up happy ending, it would feel out of place after all that's happened.
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Old 2012-06-16, 15:53   Link #267
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Erm... He never made any kind of promise, did he?
Genesis was based off his love story with Celiane. That's why no one even considered Pollon(Though showing Apollonius in Apollo, especially in the last episodes, may have been a part of that as well. Pollon barely even shows up!) despite Apollo's antics.... Since there was no legendary love between Celiane and the dog.
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Old 2012-06-16, 16:05   Link #268
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Originally Posted by KleenexGhost View Post

What type of ending you guys think they're gonna go for? Will it be good or bad?
I think that Amata is going to get his happy ending (with Mikono). But the ending overall will probably be bittersweet.

My thinking on some of the characters...

Kagura: Killed in battle or absorbed into Amata forming Amagura. If absorbed, it'll be implied that 'Amata' is the dominant half of 'Amagura'. I'd say the most likely result is him getting absorbed.

Zessica: Kamikazes herself to take out Mykage or somehow fuses with Mykage to form a reborn Touma (who may simply disappear shortly after, which would mean that Zessica essentially dies anyway). If the writing staff is feeling particularly cold, we've already seen the last of the real Zessica, and Zessikage will get killed before Zessica gets a chance to regain control of her body. I'd say the most likely result is the kamikaze ending.

Andy and MIX(Y): - My gut feeling is that Andy rescues MIX(Y) but that MIXY never gets the "Big Bangs" back. Andy/MIXY are seen in a quasi-Yaoi relationship in a brief epilogue.

One other named protagonist will probably die. I'm going to guess Yunoha (dramatic scene where she sacrifices herself to help the protagonists win, and says "Finally, I get to be with Jin again!") or Cayenne (dramatic scene where he sacrifices himself to help the protagonists win, and says "Shrade, I guess we'll be reunited soon, old friend.").
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Old 2012-06-16, 16:07   Link #269
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Genesis was based off his love story with Celiane. That's why no one even considered Pollon(Though showing Apollonius in Apollo, especially in the last episodes, may have been a part of that as well. Pollon barely even shows up!) despite Apollo's antics.... Since there was no legendary love between Celiane and the dog.
BetoJR was asking about the promise between Celiane and Apollonius that you said Pollon hijacked. Presumably it is some sort of promise to meet 12,000 years later that was shown on screen? I'm a little curious too, since I've seen you mentioning it a number of times, but I don't remember seeing it in Genesis. Was it in the OVA or something?
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Old 2012-06-16, 16:16   Link #270
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I actually don't think it was ever shown(I could be wrong, I can't bring myself to watch Aquarion again after the Pollon reveal) on screen. Or at least not said in the flashbacks which were mostly silent, though the Apollo/Apollonius and Silvia/Celiane scene was at least voiced near the end of the series. However the Genesis crew made it out to be a big deal, especially their apparent love for each other where Apollonius betrayed everything to be with her. Still didn't stop Apollonius from not showing up however unless he's Fudo... Crea... And Aquarion. Poor Celiane though thought otherwise only to end up with a dog.

The OVA was all kinds of confusing since it changed a lot of things and apparently was a prequel... Or something. Which is confusing since wouldn't that make the love between Apollonius and Celiane more than 24,000 years? And what of Reika if it was a prequel?

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Old 2012-06-16, 17:00   Link #271
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I think that Amata is going to get his happy ending (with Mikono). But the ending overall will probably be bittersweet.

My thinking on some of the characters...

Kagura: Killed in battle or absorbed into Amata forming Amagura. If absorbed, it'll be implied that 'Amata' is the dominant half of 'Amagura'. I'd say the most likely result is him getting absorbed.

Zessica: Kamikazes herself to take out Mykage or somehow fuses with Mykage to form a reborn Touma (who may simply disappear shortly after, which would mean that Zessica essentially dies anyway). If the writing staff is feeling particularly cold, we've already seen the last of the real Zessica, and Zessikage will get killed before Zessica gets a chance to regain control of her body. I'd say the most likely result is the kamikaze ending.

Andy and MIX(Y): - My gut feeling is that Andy rescues MIX(Y) but that MIXY never gets the "Big Bangs" back. Andy/MIXY are seen in a quasi-Yaoi relationship in a brief epilogue.

One other named protagonist will probably die. I'm going to guess Yunoha (dramatic scene where she sacrifices herself to help the protagonists win, and says "Finally, I get to be with Jin again!") or Cayenne (dramatic scene where he sacrifices himself to help the protagonists win, and says "Shrade, I guess we'll be reunited soon, old friend.").
I can see all of that happening. And if we're having a "one more senseless death" pool between Yunoha and Cayenne then I'm picking Cayenne, for the exact reason you just said. "Looks like I'll get to hear your song after all, my friend." Or something like that.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Amata and Mikono not end up together. Have them confess their love to each other but have some circumstance where they can't be together. Don't make everyone else suffer then have those two be together.
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Old 2012-06-16, 18:10   Link #272
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Originally Posted by KleenexGhost View Post

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Amata and Mikono not end up together. Have them confess their love to each other but have some circumstance where they can't be together. Don't make everyone else suffer then have those two be together.
Given the nature of Mikono's powers, I could see her being used to bring the two worlds back together into one cleansed world. Such a feat might be so great as to cause Mikono's death...

Given anime's love for heroes who die for the world or a specific love one (I can think of three prominent anime shows that have aired in the last year or so for which this applies), I could see Aquarion EVOL going that way.

Hhhmmm... I guess that's one way Amata might be denied his happy ending if it happens. It could also help explain why Kawamori is miffed at people for not liking Mikono more. If she's going to be the great, sacrificial hero of the final episode, Kawamori would naturally want viewers to like her going into the final episode. Kind of a waste otherwise...
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Old 2012-06-16, 18:55   Link #273
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I'm still pretty much convinced that Mykage and Zessica only have one thing linearly in common, a broken heart. You make a good point that Zessica is similar to Mykage (if we ignore everything else about his character aside from love, which isn't even why he's reincarnated in this cycle) but they are similar because of how differently they take to love... so you can't really say that he possessed her because of their similarities which they don't have in a linear fashion (more anti-parallel, and even then, Zessica is more the foil of Mikono). Their only common basis is heart break. So that would translate into her giving up and the depression of the realization is what got her possessed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
And Mykage has possessed Zessica. In a way, this has left him especially vulnerable to her, hasn't it? If she can fight back, she has seriously got access to Mykage. He is right there in the body of someone who feels similar pain to him but isn't encumbered with the bitterness of 24,000 years. It will be a cop out if Zessica gets killed and takes Mykage with her. It could happen...but it would be a sucky ending for both of them. Zess had a bright future ahead of her, and it's about time that Mykage's anger came to an end. The cycle of continuing angst for him really needs to stop. But perhaps what Zessica will do is fight against Mykage and by example change him in a way which will stop the cycle. If anyone in the story can do that, it should be Zessica.
How vulnerable is he to her? She didn't appear last episode at all, she seemed completely powerless when first snatched too. She's going to suddenly pull a one-up on him, from where? Wouldn't her resisting have been better during all the fighting when he's preoccupied and using his efforts to defend against Izumo? How is news of her having killed Alicia going to motivate her in a positive way?

Apollonius should be the one taking responsibility for Touma, honestly, almost all of this falls on his shoulders. That and, the message being sent out to the audience becomes a total mess too.
~ Don't interfere with 12,000 years of love, you're an outsider and should go away. If you try to, you get shat on. Unless you're Pollon.
~ Interfere with 24,000 years of love, that one you can stop because its not the main character's. If you try to, you save the day.

The whole thing has become a debacle anyway. Amata/Kagura has just become a complete cluster**** that I cannot believe they are actually trying to play straight because there's so many holes left in the whole thing.

--------------------------

I don't get this "character assassination" of Zessica? Reminders:
(1.) Did nothing in first three episodes but pilot and make brief cameos.
(2.) Teased for one episodes.
(3.) Piloted in six.
(4.) Fell in love in 7/8
(5.) Everything else people refer too.
There wasn't some previously established character that they assassinated. Can she still pilot? Yes. Teasing? Evolved. Does she still kick ass? Yes, and crotches. She was only in four episodes with good screen time before SHTF.... so what got assassinated? People's expectations or her character?
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Old 2012-06-16, 18:57   Link #274
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I actually don't think it was ever shown
Yeah, me neither. That being the case, the promise couldn't be "hijacked", since it never existed in the first place, right?
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Old 2012-06-16, 18:59   Link #275
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The Genesis cast made it clear that there was a promise made, which is why they were all hyped up over who was Apollonius and Celiane since they were destined to meet up again and reincarnate(Poor Sirius... Guess your half loved Apollonius so much that you wanted to be him. With Apollo being Pollon your hate of him is understandable since he's impersonating your true love). So yes, Pollon did hyjack it and trolled everyone 12,000 years later since not even the Genesis cast knew of Pollon or cared for him while going crazy over Apollonius and Celiane.
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Old 2012-06-16, 20:53   Link #276
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I'm still pretty much convinced that Mykage and Zessica only have one thing linearly in common, a broken heart. You make a good point that Zessica is similar to Mykage (if we ignore everything else about his character aside from love, which isn't even why he's reincarnated in this cycle) but they are similar because of how differently they take to love... so you can't really say that he possessed her because of their similarities which they don't have in a linear fashion (more anti-parallel, and even then, Zessica is more the foil of Mikono). Their only common basis is heart break.



How vulnerable is he to her? She didn't appear last episode at all, she seemed completely powerless when first snatched too. She's going to suddenly pull a one-up on him, from where? Wouldn't her resisting have been better during all the fighting when he's preoccupied and using his efforts to defend against Izumo? How is news of her having killed Alicia going to motivate her in a positive way?

Apollonius should be the one taking responsibility for Touma, honestly, almost all of this falls on his shoulders. That and, the message being sent out to the audience becomes a total mess too.
~ Don't interfere with 12,000 years of love, you're an outsider and should go away. If you try to, you get shat on. Unless you're Pollon.
~ Interfere with 24,000 years of love, that one you can stop because its not the main character's. If you try to, you save the day.

The whole thing has become a debacle anyway. Amata/Kagura has just become a complete cluster**** that I cannot believe they are actually trying to play straight because there's so many holes left in the whole thing.

--------------------------

I don't get this "character assassination" of Zessica? Reminders:
(1.) Did nothing in first three episodes but pilot and make brief cameos.
(2.) Teased for one episodes.
(3.) Piloted in six.
(4.) Fell in love in 7/8
(5.) Everything else people refer too.
There wasn't some previously established character that they assassinated. Can she still pilot? Yes. Teasing? Evolved. Does she still kick ass? Yes, and crotches. She was only in four episodes with good screen time before SHTF.... so what got assassinated? People's expectations or her character?
Yeah. We didn't really know much about her to say that her character was assassinated. Developed badly? Yes. But assassinated? No.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:10   Link #277
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Yeah. We didn't really know much about her to say that her character was assassinated. Developed badly? Yes. But assassinated? No.
At least she's been consistent.
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:19   Link #278
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The Genesis cast made it clear that there was a promise made, which is why they were all hyped up over who was Apollonius and Celiane since they were destined to meet up again and reincarnate
Reincarnation does not a promise to again meet mean.
Hmmm... Too much Yoda, I guess...
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Old 2012-06-16, 21:37   Link #279
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At least she's been consistent.
That is true. That is true. I will say that I do miss when she was happy.
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Old 2012-06-16, 22:00   Link #280
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I honestly don't think Zessica is going to die at the end. A lot of hints from previous episodes like her complete trust in Amata and having him accompany her in the dark point to her getting saved from Mykage eventually. And I'm still not sure how Zessica can do anything on her own to expel Mykage from her body now. Assuming that letting go of her love is the way to get rid of Mykage (a big if), I doubt she can get over her deep love for Amata which has been built up for nearly two thirds of the show in merely two episodes. That would be absurd.
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