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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 62 48.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 28.35%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 11.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 3.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.36%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.36%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.36%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-16, 23:08   Link #101
Ithekro
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Originally Posted by j0x View Post
THAT HOLY GRAIL IS STUPID!!!


Well Grail-kun is a bastard.
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:12   Link #102
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
Spoiler for this is fun:
Yeah, I picked up on that too. Very strange choice of locale. And they were there out of no where. I thought there was an encode problem and I was missing the first minute or something.
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:32   Link #103
Allium
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This episode, as expected, was well done. They went all out with the camera direction in the Kiritsugu and Kirei fight, which resembled that of a Hollywood action blockbuster. (Bruce Wayne's bunker, anyone?) And even Kirei was showing a lot of his martial arts moves. It was cheesy, but fun to watch.

The highlight of this episode has to be Kiritsugu being in Grail-kun, who is then challenged with the twisted truth of his ideals, as depicted by the Grail. The scene which he 'killed' Illya and Iri was heartbreaking; Iri screaming at Illya's death was painful, brilliantly done by Sayaka Ohara.

With Kiritsugu receiving most of the spotlight, I somehow felt that the Servants got pushed aside in this episode. Saber and Berserker's scene was cut down, and even Saber's encounter with Gilgamesh felt anticlimactic. I trust that the BD will make up for that.

Not a perfect episode, but it was still good as a lead-up to the finale next week.

And before I forget, Happy Father's Day!
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:34   Link #104
FlareKnight
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All I can say is that it won't be easy to go back for Ilya no matter how this series ends. I mean regardless that it wasn't 'really' her he still shot his daughter in the head. No way in hell he's going to see himself as having a right to go back for her after that.

Interesting to see the Grail take Kiritsugu's path and bring it down to a terrifying conclusion. You keep killing the minority to save the majority and you'll reach a point where all you have is dead bodies and a small number of people left. Kiritsugu can't use the grail to save the world because he only knows how to save people by killing other people. Also seems like Kiritsugu just keeps picking up curses.

Sucks more for Saber. Her fight with Lancelot was short and not very good. Then her confrontation with Gilgamesh was also short and not very good. Then to top it off she's forced to prepare to blast away the only thing she's got left here....Yeah this can't possibly go wrong. Well at least Kiritsugu won't have to worry about his long term goals. He's out of command spells and has a couple angry servants in the room with him.
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:34   Link #105
Aesthetic Shampoo
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
... That's exactly how I took it. Is that a problem? It's hardly OoC for Gilgamesh to consider a guy like Kiritsugu beneath him.
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
Also why should Gilgamesh worry about Kiritsugu anyway?
Gilgamesh was proposing to Saber, the one and only woman he chose, and he allows a lowly worm to gaze upon the magnificence of this sight? Get outta here

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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
probably just you then, because that final bullet loading scene feel so bloody slow and tense. You read the novel already so you already know that he's going into 4x, where as the anime viewers don't. Considering that we already know going haste is putting more strain to the body, and Kiritsugu didn't use beyond double before the activation of Avalon, and we all know that Avalon provides insane healing power, it's pretty simple to put 2 and 2 together.
I'm just saying it could have been shown better. It does lose tension if you have to put 2 and 2 together. Rather than "OOH" its "wait...ooh".

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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
If you look closely, both parties are defenceless to another person's attack, Kirei is not going to block the bullet again, and Kiritsugu got no defence against those 4 black keys around him. It's clear that it won't end well before the grail intervened. When it's that obvious there's no need to comment on it.
Those Black keys were meant to restrict Kiritsugu's movement so he couldn't dodge and fire at the same time, so he had to shoot Kirei before his brains go punched out. Putting myself into an anime viewer shoes, all i could think was that either he missed, or that they were going to curve or something (the screen flip helped). And yes, it's clear that the fight wouldn't end well before they were interrupted, but the point was that it was supposed to end right then and there if the grail hadn't fallen on them.

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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
well, saber stopped it temporarily when he only used one, when Lancer died pretty quickly to just one command seal.
I know Saber was resisting. My point was that it wasn't shown.
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:41   Link #106
j0x
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The Matrix: Neo vs Smith -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGHX-ALuYMg
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:53   Link #107
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Everything in the episode was superb and awesome. What wasn't awesome was what wasn't there. How could they jip us of the last conflict with Lancelot like that? Gotta wait for the blue rays I guess? I almost wish I didn't see this episode now so I could've enjoyed the better product later. This is just so lame. Should've just been a double episode IMO.
Yeah, this just about sums up my feelings on the episode as well. *sigh* I had such high hopes for Lancelot too. Not to mention Kariya's death scene.

I knew I should have waited for the BDs to come out before watching the series when they announced the TV airings would be incomplete, but unfortunately I let the hype get the better of me. Oh well, hopefully in a few months I'll be able to give this episode the top score the complete version should deserve if it does justice to the source material.

Because yes, what wasn't absent from the episode was indeed awesome. Kiritsugu is clearly ufotable's favorite character because the production values, directing and pacing are always top notch when it comes to his material. The climatic fight was as thrilling as I'd hoped (even if the mechanics behind some of those moves weren't entirely clear without background from the novel) and Kiritsugu's nightmare was delightfully brutal. Lancer in particular must have been quite pleased with it.

I kind of wish we could have seen Kirei's version of being approached by Angra Mainyu as well, but I'm assuming that wasn't shown in the novel either (at least as of where the anime got to by the end of the episode)? Was Kiritsugu the only one of the two who was offered the possibility of having "his wish" granted (perhaps because he woke up first)? Clearly Kirei saw something as well though, because his words to Kiritsugu at gunpoint showed he also came to understand the nature of the Grail.

Last but not least, I also still resent the loli Rin episode, no matter what rationalizations are made to excuse it. Choosing moe fanservice for lolicons over freaking Arthur vs Lancelot will never be a good choice.
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Old 2012-06-16, 23:54   Link #108
mAc Chaos
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Kotomine saw Kiritsugu's dream. He was just spectating.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:02   Link #109
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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
Kotomine saw Kiritsugu's dream. He was just spectating.
Oh. So Angra Mainyu simply chose to offer itself to Kiritsugu first, rather than to its kindred soul in Kirei? What a dick, that Grail-kun.

Granted, one of the main points of their rivalry has been that, on a surface level, the two are extremely similar, so I suppose it makes sense. Too bad that, much like Kirei, Angra Mainyu misjudged Kiritsugu, and thus got its throat crushed and will now have to eat some Excalibur. Fuck yeah, Kerry.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:03   Link #110
mAc Chaos
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Well, Kiritsugu already embraced "all evils of this world" in his own life, whereas Kotomine is still coming to terms with it.

All the Grail had to do was look at how he acts normally, and like the Grail said, he's perfectly suited for the way it grants wishes.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:16   Link #111
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True, and now that I think about it, the only way the Grail can grant Kirei's wish is through its birth, which shouldn't be able to happen with two Servants still around.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:24   Link #112
jeroz
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I'm just saying it could have been shown better. It does lose tension if you have to put 2 and 2 together. Rather than "OOH" its "wait...ooh".
guess the difference is, i already know about it as it comes along. "oh sht, he's killing himself" "omg he's killing himself more?!". If you don't need to stop and think then there's no tension lost.

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Originally Posted by EssTEss View Post
Those Black keys were meant to restrict Kiritsugu's movement so he couldn't dodge and fire at the same time, so he had to shoot Kirei before his brains go punched out. Putting myself into an anime viewer shoes, all i could think was that either he missed, or that they were going to curve or something (the screen flip helped). And yes, it's clear that the fight wouldn't end well before they were interrupted, but the point was that it was supposed to end right then and there if the grail hadn't fallen on them.
Well, if that's what it's suppose to happen in the LN then I have no idea. The camera work showed that both will die in the next second, so I don't know what your problem is. All four black keys are pointing straight toward Kiritsugu and flying towards him, restricting his room to move to say the least if not killing him.

To be honest though I didn't notice the black key until the camera pans around in that final shot before the scene cuts away. Before that I thought it's another matter of close timing, whether Kirei can get to Kiritsugu before the gun is loaded properly, similar to that Rider/Saber encounter. The addition of the Black Keys adds a lot more to the tension.

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Originally Posted by EssTEss View Post
I know Saber was resisting. My point was that it wasn't shown.
hands shaking, cogwheel movement, strained expression, crying for Kiritsugu to stop. If those are not the signs of her resisting I don't know what else that you want. :P
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:25   Link #113
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I think it would have a better impact had Saber was shedding tears (of blood or regular) when she does the last Excalibur.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:34   Link #114
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Soooo Saber and Archer never really fought each other in Fate/Zero? That kinda sucks.

On that matter why did Emiya had to use 2 commands? Shouldn't one be enough? She was already moving to destroy the grail.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:40   Link #115
Vicious108
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Soooo Saber and Archer never really fought each other in Fate/Zero? That kinda sucks.

On that matter why did Emiya had to use 2 commands? Shouldn't one be enough? She was already moving to destroy the grail.
Can't hurt to take double precautions. Not like he had any other use for the Command Spells afterwards anyway, since, without the Grail, Servants can't (normally) remain in the material world.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:46   Link #116
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what was the deal with Kirei trying to chop the bullet?
Did he try to pour prana from the command seals into his hand to just chop it away, but since its an origin bullet, it didn't work?

Gilgamesh's presence was funny in his own way. Kiritsugu just had a fight to the death, got swallowed into the grail and shown the vision (real world it was only seconds? but how long did he perceive himself inside there) and all Gilgamesh has to say is "you dare intrude on my wedding proposal?"
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:46   Link #117
Aesthetic Shampoo
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
hands shaking, cogwheel movement, strained expression, crying for Kiritsugu to stop. If those are not the signs of her resisting I don't know what else that you want. :P
Those were all shown after the second command spell was used. My complaint was that they didn't show something like that after the first was used, so we didn't know why he had to use the second.
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:55   Link #118
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The command spell comes in effect after the master finished saying his order, right? Her resistance happened after the first one was used, and she didn't swing the sword until he used the second as in finished saying "destroy it".
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Old 2012-06-17, 00:59   Link #119
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
what was the deal with Kirei trying to chop the bullet?
Did he try to pour prana from the command seals into his hand to just chop it away, but since its an origin bullet, it didn't work?
That part was somewhat confusing to me as well. I'm still not sure whether Kirei effectively managed to deflect the bullet with minimal effect to his body, thus preventing Kiritsugu's Origin from tearing up his magic circuits, or whether the bullet hit in the end, only it didn't affect him because he was actually being powered by the Command Spells and his circuits were (mostly) inactive, thus leading to minimal damage.

Quote:
Gilgamesh's presence was funny in his own way. Kiritsugu just had a fight to the death, got swallowed into the grail and shown the vision (real world it was only seconds? but how long did he perceive himself inside there) and all Gilgamesh has to say is "you dare intrude on my wedding proposal?"
It's amusing when you think about how Gilgamesh probably would've found Kiritsugu to be highly amusing in the same way as Saber, if only Kirei had been able to discern and convey to him Kiritsugu's true nature and wish from the start, back when he had the Assassins spying on the Master's motives.
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Old 2012-06-17, 01:04   Link #120
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Soooo Saber and Archer never really fought each other in Fate/Zero? That kinda sucks.
That was my only complaint when I read the LN. I guess we'll just have to stick with F/SN their fight.

Overall, an amazing episode despite all the cuts and trims, which I imagine will be even more amazing in the BD-episode (thinking a 40min episode would do justice )
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