AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Aquarion Series

Notices

View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 15 27.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 18.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 3 5.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 16.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 9.09%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 7.27%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 7.27%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 5.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-16, 22:04   Link #281
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayven View Post
I honestly don't think Zessica is going to die at the end. A lot of hints from previous episodes like her complete trust in Amata and having him accompany her in the dark point to her getting saved from Mykage eventually. And I'm still not sure how Zessica can do anything on her own to expel Mykage from her body now. Assuming that letting go of her love is the way to get rid of Mykage (a big if), I doubt she can get over her deep love for Amata which has been built up for nearly two thirds of the show in merely two episodes. That would be absurd.
I suppose Fudo might be able to do something to expel Mykage from Zessica's body. But when has Fudo ever shown actual care or concern for Zessica?

Every way I can think of for Zessica to come out of this alive involves a complete asspull (such as what you mentioned about her quickly getting over Amata - like flipping a light switch - in two episodes or less!).

Zessica's at a point now where she actually needs crappy writing in order to stay alive.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-06-16, 22:20   Link #282
crayven
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I suppose Fudo might be able to do something to expel Mykage from Zessica's body. But when has Fudo ever shown actual care or concern for Zessica?

Every way I can think of for Zessica to come out of this alive involves a complete asspull (such as what you mentioned about her quickly getting over Amata - like flipping a light switch - in two episodes or less!).

Zessica's at a point now where she actually needs crappy writing in order to stay alive.
I actually think the probability of her staying alive is quite high. For example, Amata and Mikono can force Zessikage to do a gattai and then with the power of LOVE and FIRENDSHIP Zessica regains her body.

The part that's going to require some kind of asspulls is her getting a truly happy end as she is pretty much guaranteed to have a bittersweet end right now.
crayven is offline  
Old 2012-06-16, 22:41   Link #283
KleenexGhost
Riding the Ange Express
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
I could see Zessica surviving. I'm hoping for it as a matter of fact. Hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.
KleenexGhost is offline  
Old 2012-06-16, 23:40   Link #284
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I suppose Fudo might be able to do something to expel Mykage from Zessica's body. But when has Fudo ever shown actual care or concern for Zessica?

Every way I can think of for Zessica to come out of this alive involves a complete asspull (such as what you mentioned about her quickly getting over Amata - like flipping a light switch - in two episodes or less!).

Zessica's at a point now where she actually needs crappy writing in order to stay alive.
So which means she's totally going to die... It was pretty telling that in the interview about the epilouge and the last 2 episodes they didn't mention Zessica at all.

Or Mykage really.
Destined_Fate is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 00:51   Link #285
GoldenLand
Eaten by goats
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I'm still pretty much convinced that Mykage and Zessica only have one thing linearly in common, a broken heart. You make a good point that Zessica is similar to Mykage (if we ignore everything else about his character aside from love, which isn't even why he's reincarnated in this cycle) but they are similar because of how differently they take to love... so you can't really say that he possessed her because of their similarities which they don't have in a linear fashion (more anti-parallel, and even then, Zessica is more the foil of Mikono). Their only common basis is heart break. So that would translate into her giving up and the depression of the realization is what got her possessed.

How vulnerable is he to her? She didn't appear last episode at all, she seemed completely powerless when first snatched too. She's going to suddenly pull a one-up on him, from where? Wouldn't her resisting have been better during all the fighting when he's preoccupied and using his efforts to defend against Izumo? How is news of her having killed Alicia going to motivate her in a positive way?
I think he chose to possess her because of her broken heart. She did everything for the sake of some guy who doesn't reciprocate her feelings: that's something Mykage can probable sympathise with. I don't think there's any reason (yet) to believe that he couldn't have possessed someone without a broken heart if he wanted to.

Zessica might or might not be able to do it, but the fact remains that Mykage is in her body. If she's able to turn the tables on him, she's got great access to him. It's all up to her (and the writers!) whether she's able to. Of course it would have been better for her to resist when Mykage was taking her over, but this isn't what all possessed characters tend to do in fiction. Nope, they need to gather their resolve and fight them off. She may be able to take the opportunity to show Mykage what he's lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I don't get this "character assassination" of Zessica? Reminders:
(1.) Did nothing in first three episodes but pilot and make brief cameos.
(2.) Teased for one episodes.
(3.) Piloted in six.
(4.) Fell in love in 7/8
(5.) Everything else people refer too.
There wasn't some previously established character that they assassinated. Can she still pilot? Yes. Teasing? Evolved. Does she still kick ass? Yes, and crotches. She was only in four episodes with good screen time before SHTF.... so what got assassinated? People's expectations or her character?
Turning her into someone who revolves totally around her heartbreak for the guy she likes is a criminal waste of a character. She had a lot of potential. But I suppose your argument is she didn't have enough character to assassinate. I see your point there, but I disagree and think that she does have some character of her own. Even during her angst she managed to be likeable. But the angst just didn't stop, and everything about her was about Amata. Making a character into someone who thinks only about one thing is horrible. The writers had their daggers out for her, whether they did it on purpose or just from sloppy writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crayven View Post
I actually think the probability of her staying alive is quite high. For example, Amata and Mikono can force Zessikage to do a gattai and then with the power of LOVE and FIRENDSHIP Zessica regains her body.
This is Aquarion. Such an occurrence wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason. Hmm. It's silly, but I like this idea.
GoldenLand is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 01:31   Link #286
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
I don't think there's any reason (yet) to believe that he couldn't have possessed someone without a broken heart if he wanted to.
Things don't add up, the promise and the mark are ominous. I think she was the easiest pawn for him to gain control of, if heart break wasn't the key, they sure focused on it a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Zessica might or might not be able to do it, but the fact remains that Mykage is in her body. If she's able to turn the tables on him, she's got great access to him. It's all up to her (and the writers!) whether she's able to. Of course it would have been better for her to resist when Mykage was taking her over, but this isn't what all possessed characters tend to do in fiction. Nope, they need to gather their resolve and fight them off. She may be able to take the opportunity to show Mykage what he's lacking.
Not showing her at all is a real bad handling if she was going to be able to do this on her own, especially with Alicia's death on "her" hands. You also make it sound like Mykage's "missing" something, and that just skirts the issue and makes him seem rather shallow. Touma and Mykage have been pissed off for 24000 years about betrayal, lies, the destruction of Atlandia, and a broken heart. His wrath is pretty justified by this point, and I don't think him letting go of Apollonius will:
(1.) Rebuild Atlandia
(2.) Revive his dead people
(3.) Fix his anger at being lied to about Pollon.
And if it did, that'd just be hilariously bad writing and genuine character assassination. He can sympathize with Zessica but that doesn't mean that she somehow holds the magic key to fixing him. That's not in the cards and the only person who can do that is the person who started it all, Apollonius.

Not to mention that this is all extremely hypocritical of Pollon and Celianne who caused this mess. Pollon not being able to let go is what ruined Touma's atonement and brought about Mykage in EVOL, and Celianne's been riding the train for 24,000 years and never letting go either. Wouldn't it be much better to have them fix Mykage? Why do they get ignored in this and get free passes?

What's the aesop? If you're the main characters, clinging to love for 24,000 years is A-OK! But if you're the villain and/or someone unrelated to reincarnations, its not? What sort of story is that?

Wasted potential is every character in this show. But no one's been assassinated, closest is Mikono with how just osculates back and forth between two completely different roles.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 02:50   Link #287
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Apollonius needs to apologize, that's true. However the main offender was Pollon who really needs to apologize and make amends. Had Apollo actually been Apollonius than Touma would have happily just faded away, with Apollonius and Celiane being happy, and never returned. It was finding out the truth about Apollo and Apollonius not being around that made him snap again.
Destined_Fate is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 05:45   Link #288
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Apollonius needs to apologize, that's true. However the main offender was Pollon who really needs to apologize and make amends. Had Apollo actually been Apollonius than Touma would have happily just faded away, with Apollonius and Celiane being happy, and never returned. It was finding out the truth about Apollo and Apollonius not being around that made him snap again.
That wasn't Apollo's fault, tho.
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 06:07   Link #289
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
That wasn't Apollo's fault, tho.
Since Apollo is Pollon that means it his fault by default, at least as far as Mykage/Touma is concerned. Pollon may have wished hard to be with Celiane, thus thinking he was Apollonius, but that doesn't change that he was still Pollon in the end.
Destined_Fate is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 06:50   Link #290
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
Yeah, that's not really how it works. He didn't really remember - and I don't think he ever outright said he was Apollonius. Did he?
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 06:56   Link #291
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Yeah, that's not really how it works. He didn't really remember - and I don't think he ever outright said he was Apollonius. Did he?
Doesn't matter, Apollo is Pollon is even if he knows nothing it doesn't change that he still is Pollon and thus Touma hates him. Apollo didn't even deny it and Apollonius appeared behind Apollo more than once. Than there's the scene when Apollo reached out for Silvia so did Apollonius reach out for Celiane. Thus Touma was tricked and is rightly pissed off over being tricked by a jealous dog.

Apollo though was really misguided. He really thought that the love he had with Celiane was legendary and that the entire universe was jealous of their love. In the end, due to the Pollon reveal, he was never a part of that Legendary love and was just a part of the Universe that was jealous and envied the love between Apollonius and Celiane. No one cares for Pollon and even when he fooled everyone in Genesis he was ignored in favor of the legendary love of Apollonius and Celiane. Than the reveal in EVOL where everyone was like "Oh? He's a dog? O....kay?". Even with that reveal Pollon is still treated like a nobody. No one even cares enough to hate him for tricking Celiane or tricking Touma which lead to all the BS in Evol.
Destined_Fate is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 07:01   Link #292
GoldenLand
Eaten by goats
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
I don't think that Pollon has anything to apologise for, as it wasn't wrong of him to wish to meet Celiane again. Even if he was wrong (which I say he isn't), Apollo certainly isn't to blame, since he barely remembered anything of his past life anyway. Fudo did make a point of saying that people should not be living their lives thinking of themselves just as reincarnations. He was definitely going for a living the life you have now thing.

Toma/Mykage is responsible for his own problems and choices. It's natural that he would be upset over Apollonius leaving him, but after a point the blame which could be given to Apollonius for that dries up and it's all on Toma. The responsibility for turning into Mykage lies on him. (It's analogous to real life exes who go around saying things like "I'll kill myself and other people if you don't come back to me and love me!", because especially after a certain point of bitterness and batshit, you can't be blamed for what they do.)

That said. Apollonius is a powerful person, and if - if - he is still around, he may well know what's going on and be able to intervene in some way. If all of him is stuck in Aquarion, maybe there's nothing he can do. If he's also Fudo and Crea, that means he's still directly involved in the conflict, and it does make me wonder why he hasn't done more. A lot of other characters have been jerked around by Toma. Are cryptic comments really all that he's able to manage? Even though Toma is responsible for his own actions, he's really on another level from all of the characters except perhaps any remaining pieces of Apollonius, and Fudo too, if Fudo isn't Apollonius. Maybe Crea as well. I would argue that Apollonius and/or Fudo has a responsibility to do his best to help the others out as much as he's able to. It would help if he would talk plainly to others more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Yeah, that's not really how it works. He didn't really remember - and I don't think he ever outright said he was Apollonius. Did he?
He didn't. And when Sylvia talked about their past lives as if assuming that she was Celiane and he was Apollonius, he didn't say anything to confirm it, and didn't lie by omission either. He said he didn't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Apollo though was really misguided. He really thought that the love he had with Celiane was legendary and that the entire universe was jealous of their love.
That's quite different from my impression of what happened in Genesis. Which episodes/scenes from Genesis do you have to support your claim? I can't say I remember Apollo going around saying things to the effect of "Silvia, you're my Celiane! We're fated and legendary, and the whole universe is jealous of us and our reincarnation romance..." That seems a very un-Apollo thing for him to imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Doesn't matter, Apollo is Pollon is even if he knows nothing it doesn't change that he still is Pollon and thus Touma hates him. Apollo didn't even deny it and Apollonius appeared behind Apollo more than once. Than there's the scene when Apollo reached out for Silvia so did Apollonius reach out for Celiane. Thus Touma was tricked and is rightly pissed off over being tricked by a jealous dog.
Sorry, but no, that doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
trick (trk)
n.
1. An act or procedure intended to achieve an end by deceptive or fraudulent means.
Apollo didn't have any knowledge of what was going on. He wasn't tricking anyone. Now, Apollonius was in Aquarion and reaching out. You might have an argument that Apollonius tricked Toma, but not that Apollo did. In this instance, you're blaming Apollo for something which Apollonius did.

Last edited by GoldenLand; 2012-06-17 at 07:11.
GoldenLand is offline  
Old 2012-06-17, 07:10   Link #293
Destined_Fate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
Whether he intentionally planned to trick Celiane and Touma doesn't change that he did just that as a consequence over his jealous desire to have Celiane for himself. Than thinking that the memories and love that Celiane and Apollonius had for each other were his own when he was just a bystander in all that. The least Pollon can do is say "Look, I've always loved Celiane even thugh she loved Apollonius but I never intended to hurt anyone with my wish to maybe fall in love with her in another life. I want you to know that I'm really sorry for deceiving you 12,000 years go, it wasn't my intent since at that time I really thought I was Apollonius.". It would at least be something, after all Touma believes that Apollo intentionally tricked him. So of course he's pissed.

And what good has Fudo been again? For all his talks nothing ever seems to go the way for the heroes or for him. Maybe he should stop worrying about ignoring the past and actually try and mend fences so this stuff doesn't happen again in the future. Just a thought, since he apparently knew who Apollo was the entire time and still kept everyone in the dark.

Touma gave up his hatred at the end of Genesis, his hatred only returned and festered for 12,000 years because he found out that he was tricked by a dog, a nobody that impersonated his beloved Apollonius whether it was intentional or not he doesn't know. All he knows is that he was tricked and had hid heart broken once again.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-06-17 at 07:27.
Destined_Fate is offline  
Old 2012-06-18, 00:16   Link #294
Guido
Child of Madness
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 34
Ephemera

I do really have wished to give this episode a flawless score, because it delivered with everything in drama, recollection, angst, revelations, the truth, and tragedy.

I mean an hour ago I watched the twenty-third episode to Fate Zero and left me almost at the brink of tears to the loss endured, and now with this episode of Aquarion EVOL dealing two tragic losses made me to sob for real.

Spoiler:


I never hated Izumo at all and have considered him one of the strongest antagonists/supporting characters; his piloting skills to move the Ignis and summoning the Altair cannon, that actually was able to cancel the Legendary Aquarion's union as a last act against Mikage, proved that he was a serious powerhouse of a pilot.

Now for me Mikage has hit a full bottom love, and it doesn't matter that all for what he did was due to heartbreak borned from deceit.

I feel angry, but at the same time craving intensely to see what happens in the next episode.
__________________

WHEN HELL COMES TO EARTH
THE LAST THING TO DO IS
PUT A SMILE ON YOUR FACE
Guido is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.