(L) Tasogare Otome x Amnesia Anime

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Even if he is a 12-year-old Japanese boy.

Hmm... Someone else said that previously. Was it you? Is there something inherently different between 12-year old Japanese boys and, say, 12-year old British boys, or Canadian boys, or, for that matter, any other 12-year old boys? Are they more prone to giggle? To blush at a naked girl's body? To tell a girl around his own age to not expose herself to him?

Not that I even believe that last one. At the age of 12, when hormones were beginning to run wild, I don't think any of my male classmates would have objected if one of our female classmates were to disrobe in front of us. That must just be an anime thing. Or, maybe it is a Japanese thing.

You make good points. I just didn't happen to react the same way. I admitted fanservice was part of the reason for the bath scene. But it seemed natural and intimate to me, and also gave a bit of an old-time flavour.

As usual, you make some very good points, as well. It may have seemed natural and intimate to me, as well, if idiot boy hadn't been there, ruining the whole atmosphere, making it seem like a parody of a very important, serious scene. I will admit that, if he hadn't been there, my inclination to call it fanservice would be severely diminished, but with him there, particularly in full-blown blush, it was obviously pandering to a certain segment of the audience (the segment of the audience that will buy the DVDs to see the uncensored bits).

The slapping gave a bit of old-time flavour too, lol. People treated each other worse in the past, is my opinion.

Geez. I have the opposite opinion. I feel that, a long time ago, when I was young (let's just say more decades than you can count on one hand), people were a lot more considerate of each other, and this sort of spontaneous slapping each other would not have been the norm, but an oddity. It seems to me that, nowadays, people in general are a lot more crass and impolite than they were when I was young. Respect and consideration for your fellow human were more prevalent, and "Please" and "Thank you" were the norm then. Nowadays they're the rarity, particularly, but not only, among teenagers. Maybe not in Japan, but at least where I come from, that is.

[Kaoru Chujo]

@FredFriendly -- I had the same reaction you did about the "Japanese boy" thing, when someone previously explained his attitude with that idea (I was quoting them). I thought as you did that the 12-year-old boys I know would react quite differently. But then I thought about it and realized that Japanese society remains a bit more conventional and hidebound than ours in North America. For better and worse.

As for the thing about people in the past being less kind, I say it not just because I believe it, but because it is so counter-intuitive. My moment of realization came when I watched a Marx Brothers and a WC Fields film back to back. The humour was quite cruel. And people 50-100 years ago certainly had stricter demands for conventional behaviour and less tolerance of outsiders of any kind. In 18th century England, executions were popular public entertainment. And in the time of Christ, people though mass crucifixions were a good idea, and slavery perfectly normal. That slavery thing kept going until 150 years ago in the US (it was abolished a bit earlier in Britain, where it was not so economically significant).

People may have been more polite in the past, but not necessarily kinder. Courtesy may be a form of self-defence in a society where everyone is actually afraid of each other (e.g., the origin of shaking hands as showing you held no weapon). I've always thought abject fear of lords and samurai was the origin of Japanese high courtesy and social discipline.

Sorry, getting off-topic. To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.

EDIT: @Grimjack (next post) -- Good points. But I think of that kind of cruelty as part of a pre-modern society. Or perpetrated by the occasional psychopath in a modern society.

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

[B] To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.

It would really have to be fairly isolated community but just watch the news and we can see horrors daily.

...In some parts of Africa it is not unknown for children to be sacrificed to protect people from witchcraft, not pretty but it has been known to have happened in recent memory to me... I heard about it on the BBC.

as a response to your response.. the story in question did not happen in a backward community but in a modern urban setting, the main connection is fear of the unknown.

when people are truly afraid all kinds of nonsense can be justified

I am not sure on the amount of human sacrifice that occurred in the past at Shinto Shrines or even if it ever did, (most probably though) The thing is the village elders used the plague to cover up the sacrifice as they would put it out that the victim just died of the plague.

Why Aki and Yukariko would keep silent is a matter of power imbalance and fear of being isolated (if not killed) as well. The people who perpetrated this crime are those in power and there was little recourse to go anywhere else. This was post war Japan under American occupation after all, not the modern society in Japan now

[ogon_bat]

^ It can also happen in an urban areas, all you need is a charismatic leader, remember the Sarin gas attacks in the tokyo subway, such cults could just the same perform human sacrifice and if the leader is also wealthy/influential they might even have help from the local authorities.

[Randrak42]

Simple, just because we have ipads, skyscrapers and planes, does mean we can't also have people that believe in old, barbaric religious (or otherwise) rituals and lunatics that make up their own.

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

@FredFriendly -- I had the same reaction you did about the "Japanese boy" thing,

Spoiler for more more or less off-topic stuff:

...when someone previously explained his attitude with that idea (I was quoting them). I thought as you did that the 12-year-old boys I know would react quite differently. But then I thought about it and realized that Japanese society remains a bit more conventional and hidebound than ours in North America. For better and worse.

Thank you for the reply. At least I can always count on your intelligent response.

But it does seem that, in general, we are presented with only two polar opposites for teenage Japanese boys. On the one hand, we have those who act like idiot boy, and cower in fear and blush to high heaven at seeing a female naked. Then we have the other side of the rainbow, the boys who peek at the onsen, grab boobs, and act completely lecherous towards females. Are either of these really the norm of the average, everyday Japanese teenage boy?

As for the thing about people in the past being less kind, I say it not just because I believe it, but because it is so counter-intuitive. My moment of realization came when I watched a Marx Brothers and a WC Fields film back to back. The humour was quite cruel. And people 50-100 years ago certainly had stricter demands for conventional behaviour and less tolerance of outsiders of any kind. In 18th century England, executions were popular public entertainment. And in the time of Christ, people though mass crucifixions were a good idea, and slavery perfectly normal. That slavery thing kept going until 150 years ago.

Oh, humor is still quite cruel. Ever watch SpongeBob SquarePants? Although I don't watch it myself, I have been an ardent fan of The Three Stooges for a very long time, and they leave the Marx Brothers and WC Fields way behind when it comes to cruel and unusual slapstick comedy. After all, as you have said yourself before in one of these animesuki forums (I forget which one, and I'm paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to go look up the actual quote), "But it's just comedy." These shows are not a reflection of what people actually do in their day-to-day lives. Maybe what they'd like to do to certain people. I've never taken a hammer and a nail and driven it into someone's skull, though thinking about doing it to a certain individual might put a smile on my face.

But, it's true that people seemed to have had stricter demands for conventional behavior in bygone days. My mother did when it came to raising her kids, but I was a little less so. But, oddly enough one of my daughters is a very loose and liberal parent, whereas the other is even more strict than I was.

Oh, and that slavery thing, it still goes on, though not on the grand scale as the African slave trade. But prostitution rings and guerrilla forces are prone to rely on "free labor."

People may have been more polite in the past, but not necessarily kinder. Courtesy may be a form of self-defence in a society where everyone is actually afraid of each other (e.g., the origin of shaking hands as showing you held no weapon). I've always thought abject fear of lords and samurai was the origin of Japanese high courtesy and social discipline.

You might just be right in some respects. But, meeting someone for the first time who happens to be courteous to you, regardless of the reason, is a far more pleasant experience than someone who is hostile and rude.

Sorry, getting off-topic. To bring it back, could you show village elders sacrificing a child in modern Japan without it seeming totally impossible? I wonder.

It seems that this sort of thing is more common than one would expect, though perhaps not in Japan. Check out this article from March, 2012, purportedly originally reported by the Associated Press. There are probably other recent examples out there on the Internet.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

I'd say it goes even beyond simple cultures and right down the main thing that affects everybody to some degree; old-fashioned fear and paranoia.

When you're right in the middle of what feels like death itself, it can drive people to do pretty irrational things that they otherwise probably would not do (unless they're just that sick an individual). In this case, everyone around them was dying of a plague and it always gave off a feeling of, "Am I next?", really. As it hit closer to home (entire families having died), the paranoia and fear just become worse.

I like to like this is sort of an isolated Black Plague-like scenario, which caused a HUGE amount of religious zealotry and paranoia throughout Europe, with many people imprisoned, tortured, and/or killed off as accused "witches" or "causes" of the plague in order to appease god to miraculously make the plague go away. Main difference being that this is just presumably isolated within the town and not around the whole country.

Of course, it's also a common theme portrayed in post-apocalyptic-style scenarios where there's usually 1 person(s) who ends up snapping.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by FredFriendly

Hmm... Someone else said that previously. Was it you? Is there something inherently different between 12-year old Japanese boys and, say, 12-year old British boys, or Canadian boys, or, for that matter, any other 12-year old boys? Are they more prone to giggle? To blush at a naked girl's body? To tell a girl around his own age to not expose herself to him?

Not that I even believe that last one. At the age of 12, when hormones were beginning to run wild, I don't think any of my male classmates would have objected if one of our female classmates were to disrobe in front of us. That must just be an anime thing. Or, maybe it is a Japanese thing.

I can tell you plenty of 12 year olds here would be extremely embarrased by something like that, in fact I'm actually surprised that Westerners would be so open to it. 14-15 years and above would be everyone's wet dream but 12 is still a kid's mentality....at least that's the way it is here in general...

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I can tell you plenty of 12 year olds would be extremely embarrased by something like that, in fact I'm actually surprised that Westerners would be so open to it. 14-15 years and above would be everyone's wet dream but 12 is still a kid's mentality....at least that's the way it is here in general...

Thanks for clarifying this!

I have seen this trope a lot in anime, even with teenage boys as old as 17, wait, even beyond teenage boys (I can think of at least one college age "man" with what most guys would consider a smokin' hot, live-in girlfriend), and even beyond. So, not being Japanese, it's hard to tell if this really is the way a lot of Japanese guys would act.

And then there's the other guys that permeate anime, the complete perverts (the boob grabbers, the voyeurs, etc.). Are they really all that common in Japan?

[Daniel E.]

Several posts have been deleted. Please try to keep the discussion on topic from here on out.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Silver Link did well with this ep. The first-person view really added to the impact. Being walled up is certainly a shitty way to go...

[GrimJack]

lots happened in this episode but to really make sense of it I will have to wait for the subbed version.

Yukariko seems much nicer than in the manga though

Spoiler for but...:

from the preview of next episode it looks like the suggestion someone made that Asa was Teiichi Grandmother was correct

[gecd]

Spoiler for ep 11:

so my guess is right!
Asa is Teichi's grandmother
Yuuko-san finally accept herself / dark yuuko
but....it is time for Yuuko-san to Joubutsu ( dont know what its mean in english )
nuuoooooooo!!!!
oh
and finally ED song by Hara Yumi

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by gecd

Spoiler for ep 11:

so my guess is right!
Asa is Teichi's grandmother
Yuuko-san finally accept herself / dark yuuko
but....it is time for Yuuko-san to Joubutsu ( dont know what its mean in english )
nuuoooooooo!!!!
oh
and finally ED song by Hara Yumi

Spoiler for 11:

Joubutsu = Go to heaven

[Rayrah]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Spoiler for 11:

Joubutsu = Go to heaven

Spoiler for reply:

Please say it ain't so. ;_;

But uhm, did that happen during this episode, or will it happen during the next (and last) one?

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Spoiler for reply:

Please say it ain't so. ;_;

But uhm, did that happen during this episode, or will it happen during the next (and last) one?

it is in the preview for next week

[Rayrah]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

it is in the preview for next week

Spoiler for reply:

Ah, thanks.

Blah, then that means that Randrak and I were spot on in our speculation about how this would all end. I mean, sure, such an ending is to be expected of a story with a ghost heroine; but that doesn't make it any less.. disappointing.

[BBOvenGuy]

There are really only three ways this story can end.

Spoiler for And they are::

(1) Yuuko gets restored to life and lives happily ever after with Teiichi. (Ew.)

(2) Teiichi dies and spends eternity with Yuuko haunting the school. (Ew as well.)

(3) Yuuko reconciles with her shadow self, is restored and goes to heaven.

The only other option would be not to end it, like it's a sitcom where Teiichi has to put up with that wacky Yuuko causing trouble all the time. At least they're not going there.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Spoiler for reply:

Ah, thanks.

Blah, then that means that Randrak and I were spot on in our speculation about how this would all end. I mean, sure, such an ending is to be expected of a story with a ghost heroine; but that doesn't make it any less.. disappointing.

Aye *brofist*

[Rayrah]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

There are really only three ways this story can end.

Spoiler for And they are::

(1) Yuuko gets restored to life and lives happily ever after with Teiichi. (Ew.)

(2) Teiichi dies and spends eternity with Yuuko haunting the school. (Ew as well.)

(3) Yuuko reconciles with her shadow self, is restored and goes to heaven.

The only other option would be not to end it, like it's a sitcom where Teiichi has to put up with that wacky Yuuko causing trouble all the time. At least they're not going there.

Indeed. No matter how you spin it, it'll end in one of those three ways. But at the end of the day, I'm just a person who will always prefer option 1 and 2 to option 3; no matter how horribly written those endings may be. I hate seeing lovers get separated. But eh, I suppose there's still enough time for us to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.