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Old 2012-06-17, 08:35   Link #3461
Zulu Keita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
make a point where it has nearly zero melee abilities compared to the Infinite Justice and Destiny Gundam and is usually seen attacking from a range with its beam saber shennanigians as a last resort or a way to push opponents back.
Kira likes to use the beam saber, He usually charges towards his opponents in lightspeed and takes them out with an issen, He has also charged towards mobile suits who are shooting at him, breaking beams with his saber. Also if you already didnt know...

-Kira gave Yzak and Andrew their scars with melee weaponry.

-Kira killed Rau with the beam saber.

-Kira took out Saviour with beam sabers

-Kira took out Neo Roanoke with beam sabers

-Kira destroyed the Destroy (Stellar) with beam sabers

Kira likes to use his beam sabers and makes great use of them, He has defeated 90% of known pilots in Seed/Destiny with Melee weaponry. Kira "Prefers" to use Ranged weaponry but also uses Beam Sabers to their outmost limit.

BTW there are more examples, I just didnt find a point to make a longer list...
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Old 2012-06-17, 08:59   Link #3462
hero147
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
With the Freedom's speed its easy enough to get up into an enemy's face; he does that all the time. He just usually cuts an arm or a face off with a saber instead.

No, it doesn't, but the combined-saber wasn't really Kira's thing and he only really used it because he had the one arm left. Dual-wielding would've been more effective in the long-run, but the lance formation does have its advantages, I suppose.

I distinctly remember at least one instance of the Freedom rapid-firing its cannons while moving forward...
I think you're referring to Freedom's debut in episode 35 of SEED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulu Keita View Post
Kira likes to use the beam saber, He usually charges towards his opponents in lightspeed and takes them out with an issen, He has also charged towards mobile suits who are shooting at him, breaking beams with his saber. Also if you already didnt know...

-Kira gave Yzak and Andrew their scars with melee weaponry.

-Kira killed Rau with the beam saber.

-Kira took out Saviour with beam sabers

-Kira took out Neo Roanoke with beam sabers

-Kira destroyed the Destroy (Stellar) with beam sabers

Kira likes to use his beam sabers and makes great use of them, He has defeated 90% of known pilots in Seed/Destiny with Melee weaponry. Kira "Prefers" to use Ranged weaponry but also uses Beam Sabers to their outmost limit.

BTW there are more examples, I just didnt find a point to make a longer list...
Don't forget Kira deflected beams with beam sabers! Never saw Shinn do that!

Last edited by hero147; 2012-06-17 at 09:09.
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Old 2012-06-17, 09:38   Link #3463
justavisitor
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wow, what is going on here? XD....Is this Kira vs Shinn or Freedom vs Destiny?

I would like to drop a few comments here...designing-wise..I don't know why Destiny anti-ship sword does not cover with anti-beam coating....(as we can see IJ just breaks Destiny's sword)...so to me, Destiny has that little "weakness"...you never know when your well-matched opponent can break your sword...

I would think that Kira in Destiny would use the shoulder beam boomerang more as a beam saber and would use anti-ship sword in a deciding moment...
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Old 2012-06-17, 10:18   Link #3464
Rising Dragon
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Just gonna say this, Destined_Fate: The games don't count. None of them count. Not Dynasty Warriors, not SRW, none of them. None of them are canon and none of them make accurate portrayals of the machines used in them. Stop using them as a crutch for this debate. Use the actual canon evidence portrayed in the shows.
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Old 2012-06-17, 10:23   Link #3465
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Yesman View Post
Isn't that one of those "Kira went SEED mode while Shinn didn't" Scenarios?
I guess you are trying to say that it was unfair? ... Well, it's perfectly fair because it was a battle, not a duel. Everything is permitted. The fact that Kira can activate SEED mode at will and the fact that Shinn can't is not Kira's problem.

Just like how Shinn won that fight in EP 34 fair and square. Because it was battle not an duel. The fact that Kira was distracted by archangel and didn't want to kill a ZAFT pilot is his own problem. Shinn worked his ass off did everything he could to win that fight.
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Old 2012-06-17, 14:12   Link #3466
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
Just like how Shinn won that fight in EP 34 fair and square. Because it was battle not an duel. The fact that Kira was distracted by archangel and didn't want to kill a ZAFT pilot is his own problem. Shinn worked his ass off did everything he could to win that fight.
Exactly, and Destined Fate’s posts make it seems (ok scratch that. It’s not “seems” anymore since he clearly stated it in some of his posts. You know which one) that Shinn beats Kira single-handedly with Kira having no problem of his own. Sigh.....
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:34   Link #3467
monster
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I would like to drop a few comments here...designing-wise..I don't know why Destiny anti-ship sword does not cover with anti-beam coating....(as we can see IJ just breaks Destiny's sword)...so to me, Destiny has that little "weakness"...you never know when your well-matched opponent can break your sword...
If you're talking about the incident at Orb, Athrun cut Destiny's arm.

But anyway, even if you put anti-beam coating, it might not be as effective on a sword given its shape.
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:36   Link #3468
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Just gonna say this, Destined_Fate: The games don't count. None of them count. Not Dynasty Warriors, not SRW, none of them. None of them are canon and none of them make accurate portrayals of the machines used in them. Stop using them as a crutch for this debate. Use the actual canon evidence portrayed in the shows.
I'm not the only one bringing up the games. It was brought up, I addressed it with the facts. Kira is regulated to ranged, always. Even in the GSD games he's the Ranged champ with his melee skills not holding a candle to either Athrun or Shinn. Which the series reinforced plenty of times. Such as when Athrun beat Kira it was in a melee brawl, when Shinn beat Kira it was in a melee brawl. Kira just isn't melee savvy as those two.

Perhaps you should bother to read the post I'm addressing before making such a statement as that?
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:39   Link #3469
Rising Dragon
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... you're the only who keeps bringing up the games and mentioning the character/vehicle stats in them. Hell, you're doing it again right now. Stop that, because no one uses them as a skill gauge because it's not accurate and not canon.

And where, exactly, did Athrun beat Kira in a melee brawl? Because last I checked, Athrun lost the melee fights against Kira.
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Old 2012-06-17, 17:45   Link #3470
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
... you're the only who keeps bringing up the games and mentioning the character/vehicle stats in them. Hell, you're doing it again right now. Stop that, because no one uses them as a skill gauge because it's not accurate and not canon.

And where, exactly, did Athrun beat Kira in a melee brawl? Because last I checked, Athrun lost the melee fights against Kira.
Again, read the post that I was responding to. The poster in question brought up the games, so I addressed that. If you aren't bothering to read than why are you trying to pick a fight with me again?

Athrun beat Kira just fine in Melee in SEED. SEED Destiny Athrun was a terrible pilot compared to Shinn and Kira but that's because they failed at giving him situations to shine since Shinn and later Kira needed that time to shine.
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Old 2012-06-17, 18:02   Link #3471
hero147
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Again, read the post that I was responding to. The poster in question brought up the games, so I addressed that. If you aren't bothering to read than why are you trying to pick a fight with me again?

Athrun beat Kira just fine in Melee in SEED. SEED Destiny Athrun was a terrible pilot compared to Shinn and Kira but that's because they failed at giving him situations to shine since Shinn and later Kira needed that time to shine.
Just fine? Athrun lost his entire gundam to down the Strike. Pick your adverbs more carefully. If you're going to argue plot convenience with Athrun being a shitty pilot, the same could be said about Shinn defeating Kira, such that Kira "needed a new gundam."

For your arguments to hold a bit of weight, you need to remove the blatant confirmation bias that oozes through your posts. You can't only acknowledge the evidence that supports your argument and disregard everything else presented in the series. You said "Athrun beat Kira just fine in Melee in SEED" but failed to acknowledge that Kira beat Athrun "just fine in Melee" in Destiny.
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Old 2012-06-17, 18:37   Link #3472
Destined_Fate
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You act like the Strike fared any better. Stop picking through the parts you like and ignoring the rest. Athrun was a shitty pilot for most of SEED Destiny because the plot demanded that he be shitty compared to Shinn, the Main Character, and later Kira who retook the lead role due to rabid fan demand. They should have done it like Zeta and just flipped off the Kira fans like they flipped off Amuro fans and telling the angry fans that Zeta was Kamille's story, not Amuro's so deal with it.

I keep seeing this bias card yet the post addressing me are extremely bias, and actively try and insult me hence why I don't even bother to respond to certain posters, that try and break done Shinn as nothing and Kira as a God which both SEED and SEED Destiny has shown that Kira has been defeated and isn't a God. With melee being the main reason he ever lost a fight.

Than there's the part that he supervised the completion of the Strike Freedom. It's telling that Kira ignored melee altogether in favor of massive ranged power.

Fact of the matter is that SEED Destiny cemented the Destiny Gundam as Shinn's just like how the Strike Gundam was literally made for Kira as well since he's the one that supervised its creation. There's literally no possible way Kira will ever be able to pilot the Destiny as good as Shinn or the Infinite Justice as good as Athrun, especially since they're far more melee based which is something Kira isn't as good at as they are.
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Old 2012-06-17, 18:38   Link #3473
justavisitor
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
If you're talking about the incident at Orb, Athrun cut Destiny's arm.

But anyway, even if you put anti-beam coating, it might not be as effective on a sword given its shape.
IJ did break destiny's sword at the Final episode (or Final plus)...it would be epic if Destiny's sword has the technology of 00's universe...

Such a shame really, Destiny was so close to be my ideal MS...right now, if you ask me to pilot one MS from the seed universe...I would choose Freedom (not SF)..melee was never a problem to Freedom...I am not going to say who is better at melee, but I know Freedom can definitely hold its own at that area
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Old 2012-06-17, 18:53   Link #3474
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I seem to recall Kira managing to sword-catch the Destiny's ultimate melee weapon using the Strike Freedom at Orb. The timing and coordination of man and mobile suit needed to do something like that must have been quite impressive. If that isn't close-quarters melee skill, I don't know what is.

If he had fired the beam cannon in S-Freedom's torso instead of the rail guns, he would have killed Shinn right there.

Not that I care for Kira as a character or anything, as I think in Destiny he stopped having a personality, but I can't deny he's got it over Shinn on MS piloting skill.

Everything in Seed Destiny points to the fact that on an equal footing, Kira trumps Shinn in piloting skill. Kira managed to hold off both Shinn AND Rey with the Strike Freedom.
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Old 2012-06-17, 19:06   Link #3475
Destined_Fate
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It was a defensive skill which suits Kira's style in melee. That's what makes fighting him a pain in the ass because even though he's not as good melee fighter as Shinn or Athrun he's still smart and skilled enough to know how to evade/block blows and get distance between opponents where he has a huge advantage.

Which Shinn knew he wouldn't, that's why Shinn got that close and could take such risks to defeat Kira. Even than Kira should have won if he was the surperior melee fighter, he has shown that he can easily disable lesser pilots in melee range even if he's much better at disabling at a distance.

Overall Kira is the better pilot over Shinn, he's the "Ultimate" Coordinator after all and has years of experience. However Kira doesn't match Shinn or Athrun in melee combat, he's the ranged master for a reason and his personal Strike Freedom represents that.

Hold off isn't the same as defeating, anyone can stall. Even Cagalli stalled pretty well even when she was outmatched, even if SEED Destiny turned her into a horrible pilot and her way of stalling was "Get beat up by Shinn with the Akatsuki getting trashed until Kira and Athrun show up with new toys".
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Old 2012-06-17, 19:50   Link #3476
Rising Dragon
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Do you just actively block out any scene of Kira's where he demonstrates offensive skill with melee weaponry? That's the only way I can think of that you'd consider him lousy at fighting, beyond constantly referencing the games and his stats in said games.

In the meantime, you've yet to answer my goddamn question about when Athrun beat Kira. I haven't seen all of Destiny, but I have seen enough of it to where Kira and Athrun teamed up again, so I've seen all of their fight scenes, and have them all on DVD to check. Remind me again where Kira definitively lost a battle against Athrun, because I sure as hell don't remember it.

Also, about the Strike faring no better--it lost an arm in that entire fight and was still mostly intact when the Aegis blew up. The Aegis, on the other hand... well, it blew up. Fact of the matter is, the Strike did fare better, and did as much damage to the Aegis with a single saber, when Athrun needed four sabers to do the same to the Strike.
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Old 2012-06-17, 23:00   Link #3477
Destined_Fate
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Still you aren't reading my post. I suggest you stop responding to me if you can't stop yourself from cussing and getting angry just because you're misinterpreting everything I've been posting by not reading my post when you respond to them.
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Old 2012-06-17, 23:05   Link #3478
Rising Dragon
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I'm neither angry, nor am I misunderstanding what you're saying. You have been saying that Kira is terrible at melee fighting and biased against melee fighting in favor of ranged combat, which is completely untrue. I've presented you with the evidence as to why; you've been avoiding my own question and haven't presented any actual evidence to your claims, which puts you at the weaker position in the argument.

You can keep saying that I'm "misunderstanding your posts" or "not reading your posts" but all you've been saying lately is that "Kira is bad at melee." "Kira only does ranged combat." We've all proven that false. Confront it for once.
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Old 2012-06-17, 23:28   Link #3479
Destined_Fate
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Yes you have misinterpeted what I have said and you post was clearly one filled with anger and frustration. My suggestion to you is that you just stop responding to me since you're clearly emotionaly compromised over this matter.

And no, you've proven nothing of the sort. Though I'll leave it at that. I'm going to let you cool off before I even bother responding to your posts again.
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Old 2012-06-17, 23:38   Link #3480
Rising Dragon
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If that's what you want, then fine. But keep in mind that until you provide proof of your claims, such as when Athrun definitively beat Kira, not a single person that's participated here will believe what you say.
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