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View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 12 21.05%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 35.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 21.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 14.04%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 7.02%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-18, 00:35   Link #21
Warm Mist
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The next episode title kinda gives it away. "What no one noticed" or, more literally, "The blind spot of 10,000 people".

Spoiler for so:
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Old 2012-06-18, 01:11   Link #22
rulfo
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I was gonna give it a 7 but then again I kept laughing at how a drunk Chitanda graced the screen.

I remember that K-ON doujin where Mugi brought brandy chocolates and everyone except Mugi got drunk. Coincidentally, in that doujin, Ritsu passed out. Here we see a passed out Chitanda.
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Old 2012-06-18, 01:30   Link #23
Excorsism
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Mother of drunk Chitanda, that was adorable. A little interested in why everybody seems to look towards Oreki instead of the literature club as a whole. Rumors be spreading.

I never realized how だいじょおおうぶ could sound so adorable.
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Old 2012-06-18, 02:20   Link #24
SRanger
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Dat Irisu!

Also, does anyone know the OST/track that was playing when Houtarou was walking back home near the end of the episode, before he sees Irisu?

I have to say, the best thing about this series is the relaxing mood Hyouka sets - I absolutely love the calming classic music, and the colors and animation just makes everything amazing.
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Old 2012-06-18, 02:32   Link #25
leokiko
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Almost fell asleep there, the drunk moeblob made me laugh so I managed to stay awake.

At least there is that sexy chick on the next epi, looking foward to it.
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Old 2012-06-18, 03:31   Link #26
Leavnok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Humour me if you all would:

1. "Kounosu silently lowers a secured rope from her window down the building and climbs down."
- Seems impossible because she'd be spotted by the others, right? Look back to the last episode, where they show the building before going in. There's a spot before where the building protrudes out that could be hidden from everyone's sight.
2. "She steps in from the lower level of that area, where the window was already opened."
- The grass was only checked directly outside of Kaitou's window, so it's plausible that the other parts might not have been untouched. Also, as they check each room on Kaitou's side before reaching the end, the two rooms they first check have open windows.
3. "She sneaks behind Kaitou and silently kills him."
- The fact that the writer wanted minimal blood implies that the murder method was a non-bloody one (nothing like a stabbing). Also, no strangulation burns are present, and a knife wound would have created more blood, especially with the severed arm to include. Add to that the fact that nobody heard the murder despite being decently close in a creaky old building.
4. "Kounosu then proceeds to cut off Kaitou's arm post-mortem and create the locked room mystery."
- Once Kaitou was dead, misdirection was required. Note how there isn't any blood between the body and the severed arm. If the arm had been cut off before death, not only would there have been loud screaming, there would have been involuntary muscle reactions, which would have flung blood everywhere. Kounosa carefully placed the arm in the proper place to make it seem like part of the murder.

In order to create the locked room, Kounosu then swapped her key for Kaitou's and placed it near his severed arm. She then locks the door from the inside (maybe the key wasn't even needed for this), then escapes out the trapdoor next to the safe, which is probably connected right back to the room she originally entered from, where the rope was waiting for her again. A stage generally has an upstage and a downstage (where actors rise up to the stage from or drop out of sight from). Here is what a proscenium stage typically looks like- matches the floor plan pretty well, no? Even when Kaitou first enters and stomps on the floor, there's a hollow sound that suggests there's a connected underground portion. "Why not sneak in that way?" you may ask. The trapdoor was likely closed, and opening it would make a lot of noise, much like the window. That wouldn't be a concern after the murder though.
5. "What points you to Kounosu, and what was the motive?"
- That's just one possible modus operandi. What points me to Kounosu was the tip that said she had exceptional ability in climbing, and she was the only one that went upstairs from Kaitou's side, while the others went off in pairs in the opposite direction (Episode 8). "But that could have been anyone who ended up in her position since the keys were all laid out!". Watch carefully: Kaitou grabs the first key, then Kounosa is already reaching out towards the keys. Whichever Kaitou picked, she could have matched it. She also seems to have strong knowledge of how buildings like this were laid out. As for the motive, it's not really something that can be extensively established with the few facts we have on hand. I wish I could say that it was a personal hatred from a connecting event prior to the murder, but the film simply starts with everyone heading to the building and suggests there's nothing really between them. Ergo, I'm kind of pointed towards the potential that Kaitou was holding something she wanted, or maybe that locked safe had something in it. I can't really compose anything else at the moment. Maybe the target was never even planned, but Kaitou died because he happened to be in that very room.
Seriously, don't be afraid to dissect this and point out everything that could be wrong. I want to tweak it to potentially find the right answer.
Okay first off, after viewing what was given to the viewer so far, Kounosu was definitely the one who was the most suspicious...

Spoiler for Reasons:


The only thing that throws off Kounosu's suspiciousness is...

Spoiler for This:


I really don't know whether or not there's coincidence in all of that... but if there is, the only other one that would be suspected would be Sugimura (the boy with glasses),

Spoiler for However...:


As for the method used that you mentioned:
Spoiler for Few things:


Now the last question would be... "

Spoiler for Why?:


You also mention the seventh person complicating things..

Spoiler for But:


So what would this seventh person be?

Spoiler for Most likely...:

Last edited by Leavnok; 2012-06-18 at 03:54. Reason: Forgot to add
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Old 2012-06-18, 03:57   Link #27
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
Also, I'm almost convinced now that conflict among the student group itself is at the heart of this. So many sullen faces, and fingers pointing.
I agree. There must be a reason for all of the information they're giving us about the author and the class. Chitanda getting the minutes for the meeting is important as well. I think the fact that no one can seem to agree is a lot more significant than just a device to give out information. The other stories have been very character-driven so far, so there's obviously going to be something beyond just solving the mystery. The author's circumstances are a bit suspicious as well. The Sherlock Holmes books clue is probably a hint towards this mystery, not the movie's.

I kinda wonder if Chitanda getting drunk was just for comedy's sake. I'm inclined to think so, but you never know. She bit her lip when Satoshi mentioned that people mix up horror and mystery a lot, so that's probably why she doesn't like the mystery genre. It's pretty cute .

Also, I think the window is a red herring. It's even mentioned that Hongou didn't even care about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shergal View Post
The next episode title kinda gives it away. "What no one noticed" or, more literally, "The blind spot of 10,000 people".

Spoiler for so:
I don't understand at all...
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Old 2012-06-18, 05:26   Link #28
Hyper
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It's probably not the author intention, but I feel like the comment about "beginner usually mix horror and mystery together" is directed to the critiques that say Hyouka is boring because nothing "interesting" happened. Hyouka is a mystery alright. It just a little unusual that it has no horror at all (so far). Even the most similar story on top of my head, Bungaku Shoujo, has some horror elements in it.

I started to appreciate the double layers of the mystery in the movie. Not only you have to put together facts showed in the movie itself, but you have to combine them with the production facts as well. The last girl theory is a good example of that. Considering that it's a movie for general audience, mystery/horror mixing sounds like a good idea. But then the other fact about production (among of blood) refuse the theory. This make it starting to go beyond what I can (or want to) solve though.

All three of them certainly singled out Houtarou. I'd say Irisu told them to some extend that he is the guy who could help, but probably mentioned that they should not only focus on him as to not let the classic club know that the rest are just extra.

It's also interesting that Chitanda can always tell when a theory does not fit. She just cannot point out why.

Last time he went on a drink with a girl, he got a pretty big mystery to solve. Let's see what Houtarou will get this time.
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Old 2012-06-18, 05:33   Link #29
GoldenLand
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Supposedly, Hongou was following the Knox rules for writing mystery fiction. This means that the culprit has to be someone mentioned in the first part of the story. So, a seventh person should be ruled out.

...Or is it? Because there is also a cameraman there, and there's a guy doing the voiceover who is probably the same person. We don't get to see him, but it's possible that he's actually meant to "be" there in the video. The camera is shaky; we hear his footsteps as he goes to focus on the table. The murder takes place during the time the camera isn't rolling. He would see which rooms everyone went to and could have taken the master key. Would he have been able to commit the murder unnoticed?

But I don't know if that would be enough to qualify for the "The blind spot of 10,000 people" .

I do like the theory that perhaps the alterations made by the cast and crew made it impossible for the crime to have gone as Hongou planned.

Still, none of those options explains fully why in the chat room at the start of the episode, one person (Irisu?) said "No need to apologise. You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time". Then there's also the bit later with "But no matter what I do, it won't play out the way you intended." Very suspicious.

Was somebody in the wrong place on the set during the filming, or was there something that changed between Hongou's trip to scope the location out and the actual filming?
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Old 2012-06-18, 05:39   Link #30
Qilin
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So let me get this straight: Hongou didn't volunteer to write the script? What's more, she didn't even have a choice as to the movie's genre?

Maybe this is just me, but it sounds like Hongou didn't have much say at all in this matter to begin with. This is only speculation, but she might have been forced into writing the script one way or another. If you ask me, the heart of this little mystery lies in knowing the actual circumstances behind the creation of the movie. If that's the case, those minutes could be a valuable clue.

As for the movie mystery solving, it was nice to see three entirely different perspectives of looking at "mystery", even if two out of the three hypotheses were massive misinterpretations of the genre. It was interesting to see different takes on what the genre "should be".

Spoiler for theories:
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Old 2012-06-18, 05:46   Link #31
ThereminVox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
But I don't know if that would be enough to qualify for the "The blind spot of 10,000 people" .
I think we were joking last week that "It was probably the guy with the camera." For the movie mystery, that actually works just fine, or at least is a better theory than anything the 3 production team students came up with. It even solves the locked room if the master key was taken and returned, but the tool room still overlooks the lobby, and there was the risk that glasses boy might have seen him.

Still, I think the hinting at looking to cast a 7th actor is probably more a clue about the overarching mystery with the film's team. If the writer had someone in mind to play the seventh role, we've probably met them already.
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Old 2012-06-18, 06:00   Link #32
Calca
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Looking at the notes of the Holmes books, I read up on a couple of the stories that had a "O" next to the title which I assume where clues or stories Hongou liked. The triangles I assume were maybes and the X were dislikes. Others can look at the others but this is just a start to kind of pick the writer's brain.

The Three Garridebs uses the trap door...

Sussex Vampire uses poison and sucking the poison out, also envy is prominent.

The Man With the Twisted Lip Uses doubles (7th actor).

The Problem of Thor Bridge uses suicide and framing others.

Adventure of the Illustrious Client

Last edited by Calca; 2012-06-18 at 06:12.
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Old 2012-06-18, 07:04   Link #33
Haak
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That was pretty damn intense stuff there. I was having to pause it several times just to take it all in and that's all I can do. I don't know jack about mystery so I'm not even bothering trying to speculate. But I just find it rather funny that some were seriously doubting this show was a mystery and were even debating what a mystery was when this show itself appears to have some pretty hardcore knowledge of the mystery genre.
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Old 2012-06-18, 07:22   Link #34
hilly
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Well,the hint would be
Spoiler for hints:

This is the clue I can observed so far,any hint i missed~?
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Old 2012-06-18, 08:31   Link #35
Peanutbutter
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Spoiler for My little half-theory:
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Old 2012-06-18, 08:47   Link #36
Kanon
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Drunk Chitanda was so much fun. Her little laughing fit after Maya asked if she was okay was adorable <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
Spoiler for My little half-theory:
Sounds like a solid theory. It fits what was written in the script. Hongou specifically said the girls should stay back while the boys examine the body, so one of them could have thrown the key without the others noticing. The girls' screams could have been used to cover the sound of the key being thrown.

This theory doesn't account for the rope and the seventh actor though. I believe those are very important clue, though I have no idea what to make of them (second guy's theory was stupid).

I'm feeling too lazy to actively try to solve this mystery (especially since I'm not convinced we have all the clues required yet), so I'll just let the anime carry me~
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Old 2012-06-18, 09:20   Link #37
rulfo
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I wonder if all the tidbits laid out are useful.

In any case, only thing that grab my attention was the 7th person theory and the rope.
Though I'm beginning to think, just how credible is the film. It the amount of blood was necessary then they would've messed something up by adding more to it.

Spoiler for If I were to speculate a wild theory what the rope was used for....:

Last edited by rulfo; 2012-06-18 at 09:50.
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Old 2012-06-18, 11:48   Link #38
ookamigirl
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So the mystery about the mystery movie's ending continues.
They sure debated about it a whole lot.
Chi sure got tipsy from that alcoholic candy ^^
She was even cuter that usual 'cause of it.
Guess this case is far from over..
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Old 2012-06-18, 12:29   Link #39
joeboygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shergal View Post
The next episode title kinda gives it away. "What no one noticed" or, more literally, "The blind spot of 10,000 people".

Spoiler for so:
Might you be referring to the fact that
Spoiler for best guess:


If this isn't it then I'm totally stumped. It's so annoying that I'm having a tough time staying on task at work.
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Old 2012-06-18, 12:35   Link #40
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Humour me if you all would:

Spoiler for Theory:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavnok View Post
Okay first off, after viewing what was given to the viewer so far, Kounosu was definitely the one who was the most suspicious...

Spoiler for Reasons:


The only thing that throws off Kounosu's suspiciousness is...

Spoiler for This:


I really don't know whether or not there's coincidence in all of that... but if there is, the only other one that would be suspected would be Sugimura (the boy with glasses),

Spoiler for However...:


As for the method used that you mentioned:
Spoiler for Few things:


Now the last question would be... "

Spoiler for Why?:


You also mention the seventh person complicating things..

Spoiler for But:


So what would this seventh person be?

Spoiler for Most likely...:
Thanks for the little blurbs. I'm actually interested in an unwritten rule of crime stories- "It's always the last person you'd suspect!". It feels really cheap and easy to pin everything on Kounosu, but since Hongou was an amateur dead set on following the basic rules only via Sherlock, this could have been bypassed entirely. Speaking of Sherlock, did anyone take a close note at the little note in the book? They're different mysteries from the Sherlock Holmes universe. My guess is that while searching for ideas, Hongou marked off an X for unusable cases (like the Speckled Band involving a deadly snake), triangle for semi-related cases (like the Copper Beeches, involving a kidnapping through some blocked passages), and a circle for usable cases (like Blue Carbuncle, which used the ideas of misdirection and evidence disposal, amongst other things). What interests me most is that "The Man With The Twisted Lip" is circled twice, implying some sort of strong importance. In that case, a man is presumed to have been murdered when he was just in disguise the whole time. Does this tie into this at all?

About Kounosu herself. I still think she said "I have a bad feeling about this" to mislead the others (it would sound like she doesn't know what's about to happen and therefore is just as "in the dark" about the murder when it occurs). There's also the potential that it was a line added in carelessly by Hongou to create tension and build suspense, in the most well-known and overused method possible.

I don't think there's accomplices. For a game of murder for two, they'd both have to have not been spotted by anyone else, and the only ones who left in pairs were far away on the opposite side of the building. It was established at one point that heading for the master key would have been an easy catch for someone who might have wandered back. If it's a 5 man conspiracy, then even Hongou wouldn't have had them all travel into the room together, act surprised and conduct an introductory search. They might go as far as showing the body, but nothing past that.

Speaking of that, the trapdoor was probably used so the criminal wouldn't be spotted. My guess was that the three rooms downstairs were connected via trapdoors, and afterwards Kounosu slipped into the one beside the safe and ended up at the window she came in through...a few rooms over. What if she walked over, somebody came back, spotted her and began heading over to Kaitou was, having seen Kounosu do the same? She can't exactly play it off that he's dead anymore. However, if she went back the way she came and simply pulled the rope back up, nobody would be the wiser and everything would be in place.

Of course, I say Kounosu as just a guess; the modus operandi simply fits her best at the moment, especially since it was accentuated that the rope was a requested prop and Kounosu was to use it.

As for the blind spot? It's too vague to really go off of, but what interests me is that it's a blind spot for 10,000 people. Is it referring to an in-show audience? It could even be something else. Is it a psychological or optical blind spot? This phrase can be tied into anything that's easy to miss, so it wouldn't be fair to deduce yet.
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