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Old 2012-06-18, 04:51   Link #3261
MeoTwister5
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There was actually one thing in all the theology classes I had in college had in common, the one's taught by Jesuit priests: It's better for you to have an understanding of your faith with shreds of doubt than to adhere strongly to faith without understanding why.
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Old 2012-06-18, 09:15   Link #3262
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I was baptized as Mormon, switched to Protestant and now I'm just somewhere in a pool of mixed religions. My ex was Catholic and I used to go to her Sunday masses as well. Rather than gluing myself to a certain branch of Christianity, I took it more of a learning process. I'm deeply bothered by fellow believers who can't comprehend the bible in their most fluent language. I also feel that some 'devout Christians' have never read the bible.

"Really? Give me a ref # to where it says that. I have it right here, tell me where you got that idea from? Your parents told you? Really?"

I'm not too concerned with details such as what God or the Savior did in the past or looks like. I'm more concerned about why the world is the way it is and what I am supposed to do as a human being in the general picture.

I never make prayers to demand for anything. I don't seek a physical Savior in the living world. There's no need to. If there was really a need, they'd be here.

My impression of God is like a parent with overwhelmingly superior insight and foresight. Just like how you feel badly treated by your parents when they actually love you and try to show you small amounts of pain so that you can become stronger. I feel God is the same but on a much higher level. So I don't expect any eternal peace in the living world. Then we'd be just spoiled protected brats that never gained anything while we were alive.

I am certainly not those "liberal christians' that just follow whatever is convenient to their existing lifestyle.
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Old 2012-06-18, 10:02   Link #3263
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
There was actually one thing in all the theology classes I had in college had in common, the one's taught by Jesuit priests: It's better for you to have an understanding of your faith with shreds of doubt than to adhere strongly to faith without understanding why.
I've come to the belief that many people turn to religion out of a deeply felt need for some certainty in life. Eventually, there will be one of two outcomes: some will refuse to listen to anything that would shake that "certainty", while others will come to the realisation that it's a pointless vanity born of hubris. There comes the knowledge that "certainty" is something that requires very hard work and, even then, there are no guarantees of finding an AnswerTM.

Hence, faith: The hope that you'd get there someday, even though there's more than a big chance you never will.

Atheists who sniff at the quest for "certainty" haven't really lived enough to know why it matters so much to all of us, regardless of creed, faith or religion.
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Old 2012-06-18, 13:57   Link #3264
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People want certainty...but they also want to belong .
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Old 2012-06-18, 14:47   Link #3265
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I've come to the belief that many people turn to religion out of a deeply felt need for some certainty in life. Eventually, there will be one of two outcomes: some will refuse to listen to anything that would shake that "certainty", while others will come to the realisation that it's a pointless vanity born of hubris. There comes the knowledge that "certainty" is something that requires very hard work and, even then, there are no guarantees of finding an AnswerTM.

Hence, faith: The hope that you'd get there someday, even though there's more than a big chance you never will.

Atheists who sniff at the quest for "certainty" haven't really lived enough to know why it matters so much to all of us, regardless of creed, faith or religion.
I'll bite. Why is it so important? Frankly, while I can understand and wholeheartedly approve the quest for truth, I don't see the point of the quest for certainty. I see picking the latter over the former as akin to doing drugs as a substitute for happiness.
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Old 2012-06-18, 19:29   Link #3266
Urzu 7
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I consider myself a Christian today, and I'm not a perfect Christian, but I get so angry about some Christians, especially some I see in America. I know there is a lot of good Christians all throughout America, some with views that I think they are definitely wrong on but they are still, overall, good Christians (that previous post doesn't suggest that, but I acknowledge that often), but yes, I'm very frustrated with some Christians. I mean, what kind of Christians was my ugly, extreme post directed towards? Christians who believe every gay person is vile and no good; that not one of them is a good person. That they are "abominations" and it is right to hate them. There are many Christians like that. I have gay relatives and each one of them and their spouses are good people. It is hurtful that millions of Christians would hate them, treat them like dirt, and wish death upon them just because of their sexual orientation. This is a big thing with my frustration for people I think are bad Christians. I understand that with your religion you oppose homosexuality. That is understandable. However, you aren't supposed to hate those people. An important thing for Christians is to "hate the sin but love the sinner".

Then there are also plenty of Christians in America that think all liberals are Godless heathens. That's a bother. Beyond this, there are plenty of Christians who are very unkind and intolerant to people like Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims, among others (some of them hate all Muslims, even). Again, many of these Christians take an extreme view, thinking that their religions offer nothing good when in fact they share some of the greatest elements found in Christianity.

So yeah, my post was extreme. Sorry if it got on someone's nerves, but I'm angry. I'm sick of some Christians pointing the finger every which way, judging so many others, condemning so many others (things Christians aren't supposed to do), when they themselves are bad people. The Christians that I think are bad Christians ignore or oppose some of the most important teachings from Jesus himself. It is frustrating. Also, these people I deem as bad Christians are incredibly harmful to Christianity itself. Just think how the bad apples in Christianity, since just in the last decade alone, have driven away millions of people that could have become Christians or remained Christians. This is yet another thing that I'm frustrated with with certain Christians.
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-06-19 at 01:48.
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:20   Link #3267
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I've come to the belief that many people turn to religion out of a deeply felt need for some certainty in life. Eventually, there will be one of two outcomes: some will refuse to listen to anything that would shake that "certainty", while others will come to the realisation that it's a pointless vanity born of hubris. There comes the knowledge that "certainty" is something that requires very hard work and, even then, there are no guarantees of finding an AnswerTM.

Hence, faith: The hope that you'd get there someday, even though there's more than a big chance you never will.

Atheists who sniff at the quest for "certainty" haven't really lived enough to know why it matters so much to all of us, regardless of creed, faith or religion.
"The struggles itself fills the heart of man..." - Albert Camus

To an extent some people find consolation and comfort in the fact that they have a set path, or at least a potential one to take. Even if say the end result is itself unknown with no guarantees, getting there is enough to keep him occupied and satisfied until the end of one's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I consider myself a Christian today, and I'm not a perfect Christian, but I get so angry about some Christians, especially some I see in America. I know there is a lot of good Christians all throughout America, some with views that I think they are definitely wrong on but they are still, overall, good Christians (that previous post doesn't suggest that, but I acknowledge that often), but yes, I'm very frustrated with some Christians. I mean, what kind of Christians was my ugly, extreme post directed towards? Christians who believe every gay person is vile and no good; that not one of them is a good person. That they are "abominations" and it is right to hate them. There are many Christians like that. I have gay relatives and each one of them and their spouses are good people. It is hurtful that millions of Christians would hate them, treat them like dirt, and wish death upon them just because of their sexual orientation. This is a big thing with my frustration for people I think are bad Christians. I understand that with your religion you oppose homosexuality. That is understandable. However, you aren't supposed to hate those people. An important thing for Christians is to "hate the sin but love the sinner".

Then there are also plenty of Christians in America that think all liberals are Godless heathens. That's a bother. Beyond this, there are plenty of Christians who are very unkind and intolerant to people like Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims, among others (some of them hate all Muslims, even). Again, many of these Christians take an extreme view, thinking that their religions offer nothing good when in fact they share some of the greatest elements found in Christianity.

So yeah, my post was extreme. Sorry if it got on someone's nerves, but I'm angry. I'm sick of some Christians pointing the finger every which way, judging so many others, condemning so many others (things Christians aren't supposed to do), when they themselves are bad people. The Christians that I think are bad Christians ignore or oppose some of the most important teachings from Jesus himself. It is frustrating. Also, these people I deem as bad Christians are incredibly harmful to Christianity itself. Just think how the bad apples in Christianity, since just in the last decade alone, have driven away millions of people that could have become Christians or remained Christians. This is yet another thing that I'm frustrated with with certain Christians.
It's the same way that Islamic Extremism paints a wholly negative picture of Islam itself. Given the chance though if the two sides would switch I wouldn't be surprised if Extremist Christianity became violent in the name of God.

So now we feel how it's like for peace loving Muslim to see their religious brethren blow op Churches and Mosques.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-06-19 at 01:49.
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:25   Link #3268
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post

It's the same way that Islamic Extremism paints a wholly negative picture of Islam itself. Given the chance though if the two sides would switch I wouldn't be surprised if Extremist Christianity became violent in the name of God.

So now we feel how it's like for peace loving Muslim to see their religious brethren blow op Churches and Mosques.
The Christians did at one point in history which they called the "Crusades" though I know you mean something different and more modern. There are modern examples of this though with the abortion clinic bombings done in the states. Still not on the scale of what has happened in the recent decade.

You're totally right about peace loving Muslims a lot of them are ashamed of the extremists and see them as defiling the message of Mohammad. There was a good movie "The Message" that was done in 1977 that really paints the picture of Muslim beliefs. It's much different then what the extremists spout off for sure~
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:37   Link #3269
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You're totally right about peace loving Muslims a lot of them are ashamed of the extremists and see them as defiling the message of Mohammad. There was a good movie "The Message" that was done in 1977 that really paints the picture of Muslim beliefs. It's much different then what the extremists spout off for sure~
I don't know if anyone knows the ASG of the Philippines who do kidnappings in Mindanao particularly Basilan and Sulu...

I'm a Muslim and I personally hate them for defiling the Words of Allah. The shouting of " Allah is Great" after beheading a captive is blasphemous and boils me to the bone... I want them dead!!! I once planned to become a soldier to "cleanse" my mother's birth place (Jolo) of such demons!!! I think its reasonable.
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:39   Link #3270
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
It's the same way that Islamic Extremism paints a wholly negative picture of Islam itself. Given the chance though if the two sides would switch I wouldn't be surprised if Extremist Christianity became violent in the name of God.

So now we feel how it's like for peace loving Muslim to see their religious brethren blow op Churches and Mosques.
Muslims that desire peace that live in the Middle East get stamped out. I remember a couple of times I heard about Muslim organizations in Middle Eastern countries that promoted peace and they were only threatened and strong armed to shut up and conform to society's norms. And a lot of Muslims believe in terrorism because so many of their trusted religious leaders preach that the terrorism is right and the will of God. All this is very frustrating, too. The Imams direct Muslims at large, and most Imams preach about using violence against infidels.

And there are Christian extremists today killing in the name of God. It is just more discrete. It comes from politicians who orchestra war and it also manifests in some (but I'm not saying all) of those that support the wars. There are the rarer cases of some Christians who are nut jobs that kill abortion clinic workers, but then you have this whole war on terror thing. Not that I don't think we shouldn't work to fight against terrorist organizations, but look at the hornet hive the Bush administration shook up. Bush played off of many Christians in America, making them think the war on terror is a war willed by God. They are the non-Christian heathens and we have to annihilate the enemy. Sounds like another version of the terrorists goals, no? Just swap out non-Christian heathens with non-Muslim infidels, and you get the same thing. And a lot of Christians in America don't care about the Afghan and Iraqi civilians who die because they are just "Muslim heathens".

For instance, when a marine went ballistic and killed Afghan civilians earlier this year, there was a number of online comments by some ignorant Americans that played off the massacre as no big deal (i.e. "So? He just killed Afghan people!"). I remember one lady just dehumanized the Afghan civilians, as the Afghan people (as she put it) were just "primitive cave dwellers one step away from the stone age" (I am paraphrasing).
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:45   Link #3271
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I don't know if anyone knows the ASG of the Philippines who do kidnappings in Mindanao particularly Basilan and Sulu...

I'm a Muslim and I personally hate them for defiling the Words of Allah. The shouting of " Allah is Great" after beheading a captive is blasphemous and boils me to the bone... I want them dead!!! I once planned to become a soldier to "cleanse" my mother's birth place (Jolo) of such demons!!! I think its reasonable.
Thank you so much for sharing. It's truly a blasphemy to yell Allahu Akbar after beheading an unarmed man. Mohammad forbid anyone from harming an unarmed or vulnerable person. Killing fanatics only breeds more I find, so I feel the best course is to keep spreading Mohammad's message the more people who truly understand it. The less chance fanatics have to manipulate~ Though your upset is totally understandable and justified in my eyes~

I also don't know ASG What is it?
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Old 2012-06-18, 20:59   Link #3272
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I also don't know ASG What is it?
Abu Sayaf Group.

Actually the ASGs here are far more inferior compared to those in the Middle East. CAlling themselves as extension of Al-Khaida is a joke, they can't even do suicide bombings, they're damned cowards! They're robbers, rapist, looters, bombers and insurgents.

Another thing is that they kill priest and humanitarian people who helps people. What the hell?! Islam forbids killing of medical personels or anyone who help other people in need (even priest).

I worked in a military hospital and a Muslim soldier said to me that he never have a second thought in killing an ASG. He said, " they're not worth to be captured alive."
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Old 2012-06-18, 21:09   Link #3273
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Abu Sayaf Group.

Actually the ASGs here are far more inferior compared to those in the Middle East. CAlling themselves as extension of Al-Khaida is a joke, they can't even do suicide bombings, they're damned cowards! They're robbers, rapist, looters, bombers and insurgents.

Another thing is that they kill priest and humanitarian people who helps people. What the hell?! Islam forbids killing of medical personels or anyone who help other people in need (even priest).

I worked in a military hospital and a Muslim soldier said to me that he never have a second thought in killing an ASG. He said, " they're not worth to be captured alive."
Oh whoa, you've shared with me something quite amazing. I had no idea there was such things going on like that. So they're mostly criminals who are claiming to be part of something they really aren't.

Indeed, I remember that in the movie "The Message" a person who helps others no matter what it is can not be harmed even in the middle of a war zone. Do they even study the wisdom of Mohammad? I mean he is pretty clear in what he says.

Oh whoa, I suppose when someone does evil acts and has no remorse, that feeling is bound to emerge~
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Old 2012-06-18, 21:44   Link #3274
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Indeed, I remember that in the movie "The Message" a person who helps others no matter what it is can not be harmed even in the middle of a war zone. Do they even study the wisdom of Mohammad? I mean he is pretty clear in what he says.
That's the problem right there. Many muslims don't even understand Qur'an and Mohammad's teaching (called Sunnah) anymore. They don't bother or too lazy to read Quran and other books to find out the truth themselves and just directly ask their local imams. Not that those imams/ulamas are mistaken, but some imams do lead muslims to the wrong way .

Mohammad’s teaching is peace indeed. And hurting peaceful non-muslims (let alone killing them) is absolutely out of the questions. The excellent thing is, his teachings (from Allah) has balance between gaining as much as you can in this world and saving plenty for the afterlife. So, if you become a pious person in Islam, it doesn’t mean that you must let go any of your possessions. Islam only ask you to not be so attached to the worldly things (coz you’ll lose them eventually), but not forbid you from enjoying it. Yes, Islam does forbid things like drinking any kind of alcohol, eating pork and doing free/irresponsible sex. But you gotta admit, the world still has plenty to offer .

Oh yeah, I'm a muslim btw .
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Old 2012-06-18, 21:51   Link #3275
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
That's the problem right there. Many muslims don't even understand Qur'an and Mohammad's teaching (called Sunnah) anymore. They don't bother or too lazy to read Quran and other books to find out the truth themselves and just directly ask their local imams. Not that those imams/ulamas are mistaken, but some imams do lead muslims to the wrong way .

Mohammadís teaching is peace indeed. And hurting peaceful non-muslims (let alone killing them) is absolutely out of the questions. The excellent thing is, his teachings (from Allah) has balance between gaining as much as you can in this world and saving plenty for the afterlife. So, if you become a pious person in Islam, it doesnít mean that you must let go any of your possessions. Islam only ask you to not be so attached to the worldly things (coz youíll lose them eventually), but not forbid you from enjoying it. Yes, Islam does forbid things like drinking any kind of alcohol, eating pork and doing free/irresponsible sex. But you gotta admit, the world still has plenty to offer .

Oh yeah, I'm a muslim btw .

See, just like what you are talking about, that is all I was getting at in my rant I made recently (towards certain Christians). Some Christians I'm so mad with because, like I said, they ignore or oppose some of the best and most important teachings from Jesus himself.
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Old 2012-06-18, 22:03   Link #3276
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
That's the problem right there. Many muslims don't even understand Qur'an and Mohammad's teaching (called Sunnah) anymore. They don't bother or too lazy to read Quran and other books to find out the truth themselves and just directly ask their local imams. Not that those imams/ulamas are mistaken, but some imams do lead muslims to the wrong way .

Mohammad’s teaching is peace indeed. And hurting peaceful non-muslims (let alone killing them) is absolutely out of the questions. The excellent thing is, his teachings (from Allah) has balance between gaining as much as you can in this world and saving plenty for the afterlife. So, if you become a pious person in Islam, it doesn’t mean that you must let go any of your possessions. Islam only ask you to not be so attached to the worldly things (coz you’ll lose them eventually), but not forbid you from enjoying it. Yes, Islam does forbid things like drinking any kind of alcohol, eating pork and doing free/irresponsible sex. But you gotta admit, the world still has plenty to offer .

Oh yeah, I'm a muslim btw .
That is really odd to claim to be something, but never read or understand the teachings. That is why I always ask people if they are saying they believe in something. I ask them what they felt about "this section" and "this phrase," and often times I am told they don't know what I am talking about. When I am talking about their book. I read, I do a lot of reading so I tend to gather info about a great many things.

When I read the Qur'an (It's actually my mothers) I found so many contradictions between what it was saying, and how the people were acting. You're definitely right about gaining things through spiritual means. The thing about the vices that people follow is they over indulge in them, and they don't even realize there is more to the world than those things. So they're so focused on it- It's sad~

Edit: Also to further help Urzu's point I was shown this once



And got a lot out of it~ I think it's been posted here before?
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Old 2012-06-19, 07:52   Link #3277
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In summary: It's easier to cherry pick something you don't know about. If you're gonna defend something, at least know what you're defending or you'll be a sheep in a herd. That or you'll grow into an idiot like that preacher who wanted to put all the homosexuals in an electrified fence. Dumbass.
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Old 2012-06-19, 08:17   Link #3278
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To be fair to the fanatical believers out there, a couple of famous philosophers, namely Immanuel Kant and Soren Kierkegaard, that belief in God is justified precisely because it transcends the boundaries of reason itself. With this perspective in mind, I think that religious faith and scientific reasoning are largely incompatible, especially since one side stresses the value of belief despite the absence of evidence. Thus, finding a middle ground between the two would be difficult, if not impossible.

As for myself, I simply disagree with the idea of organized religions since religion and spirituality are personal in nature. They are manifestations of of one's own experiences and realizations. As such, introducing homogeneity to religious belief takes away the individuality from the experience. It becomes an exercise of conformism, rather than a journey for fulfillment and self-discovery.
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Old 2012-06-19, 08:28   Link #3279
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Abu Sayaf Group.

Actually the ASGs here are far more inferior compared to those in the Middle East. CAlling themselves as extension of Al-Khaida is a joke, they can't even do suicide bombings, they're damned cowards! They're robbers, rapist, looters, bombers and insurgents.

Another thing is that they kill priest and humanitarian people who helps people. What the hell?! Islam forbids killing of medical personels or anyone who help other people in need (even priest).

I worked in a military hospital and a Muslim soldier said to me that he never have a second thought in killing an ASG. He said, " they're not worth to be captured alive."
Cool it bro. Although I am not a Muslim, I am quite sure that like any other religion, Islam is a religion of peace. To talk about killing medical personnel, it is forbidden, yes, but the soldiers can only kill them to protect those saving the lives of others.

After all, wherever and whenever you die, that guy up there does the judging. It may been good to expedite the course of judgment for such maddened people, but there is no end to them. As fellow human beings, why not give a chance? If you can of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post
In summary: It's easier to cherry pick something you don't know about. If you're gonna defend something, at least know what you're defending or you'll be a sheep in a herd. That or you'll grow into an idiot like that preacher who wanted to put all the homosexuals in an electrified fence. Dumbass.
Why put them all in the same electric fence? All the fujoshis will congregrate around that area to seek inspiration for their fanwork.....which will lead to curious innocent girls checking it out and being brainwashed into becoming rotten girls too; it will be a detriment to society still!

The preacher is no doubt a dumbass.
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Old 2012-06-19, 08:34   Link #3280
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
To be fair to the fanatical believers out there, a couple of famous philosophers, namely Immanuel Kant and Soren Kierkegaard, that belief in God is justified precisely because it transcends the boundaries of reason itself. With this perspective in mind, I think that religious faith and scientific reasoning are largely incompatible, especially since one side stresses the value of belief despite the absence of evidence. Thus, finding a middle ground between the two would be difficult, if not impossible.
That's a fine line you're treading there pal. There's only a slight difference between believing in something for the sake of it and extremism. If you don't understand something, it's that much easier to misinterpret it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Why put them all in the same electric fence? All the fujoshis will congregrate around that area to seek inspiration for their fanwork.....which will lead to curious innocent girls checking it out and being brainwashed into becoming rotten girls too; it will be a detriment to society still!

The preacher is no doubt a dumbass.
....

I like your way of thinking, good sir! But what about catgirls? They're with the innocent ones?
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