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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 62 48.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 28.35%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 11.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 3.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.36%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.36%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.36%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-20, 20:23   Link #241
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_Edge View Post
I mean it with the literal definition. Just apathetically disregarding lives just to save numbers. This isn;t the only time he's done something like this. Even the apartment bombing. yeah he got the families out first, but what are they going to do now?

And again, there is a difference between saving one group over another vs saving one group and actively slaughtering the other.

Maybe psychotic isn't the right word. Heartless may be a better description, but he is definitely not right in the head.

I just do not like the writing for his character. He's just too one dimensional . He thinks too simply and like i said, in black and white. It's just hard to take him seriously with his unrealistic attitude. I feel that they were trying to make him a character that was hellbent on completing the mission but they just fell flat with him.


Roberta from black lagoon was even more one dimensional but at least they succeeded in making her badass. The Boss from Metal gear solid also prioritized the mission over everything. But she wasn't a flat character in any sense.

Maybe something will happen in the final episode but as it stands, to me, Emiya is just an unlikeable character with no substance.

EDIT: i don't know, I'm not trying to upset anyone or say they are wrong for thinking Emiya is likeable or deep. I'm just saying what i think. Also, adaptations from books leave aot of inner dialogue out and the thoughts of characters. I'm thinking maybe something got lost in the conversion.
I think his backstory could have been done a little more realistically (if possible in this world, lol). Having him kill his father right off the bat like that wasn't a good choice, imo. He should have been left traumatized by the experience and gradually develop his neurosis regarding heroics over his stint with Natalia. Having him immediately kill his father made it seem like he was innately like this, able to pull a trigger as an inherent skill, which I believe Natalia even brings up at one point while reminiscing. No one is really that selfless at such a young age, I truly don't think any one in the world. On the other hand, if it seemed like his mental condition was just gradually deteriorating as he learns all his assassin tactics and whatnot, I'd see it as an interesting look at how slipping into insanity created this 'heroic', if not dark, character.

Nonetheless, I still like him, but that is a complaint that looms in the back of my mind. And I find it interesting how Kiritsugu and
Spoiler:
eventually reach the same conclusions about the war, from very different perspectives.
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Old 2012-06-21, 01:00   Link #242
TwilightsCall
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Quote:
I think his backstory could have been done a little more realistically (if possible in this world, lol). Having him kill his father right off the bat like that wasn't a good choice, imo. He should have been left traumatized by the experience and gradually develop his neurosis regarding heroics over his stint with Natalia. Having him immediately kill his father made it seem like he was innately like this, able to pull a trigger as an inherent skill, which I believe Natalia even brings up at one point while reminiscing. No one is really that selfless at such a young age, I truly don't think any one in the world. On the other hand, if it seemed like his mental condition was just gradually deteriorating as he learns all his assassin tactics and whatnot, I'd see it as an interesting look at how slipping into insanity created this 'heroic', if not dark, character.

That was kind of the point of Kiritsugu's character though. Ever since he was young, he could act completely independant of his feelings and emotions, and every single character who reflected upon it considered it as 'something wrong with him.' Its that fundamental flaw in his mind that leads him on the path he chose growing up.

While they certainly could have developed his character in the way you mentioned, it's this inability to reconcile Kiritsugu and his particular flaws with normal people that make his struggle an important one, and more importantly, make his struggle mirror Kirei's. It's this flaw that makes Kiritsugu so desperate for the Holy Grail, and it's Kiritsugu's desperation that makes Kirei desperate to understand him.

Thats how I feel atleast.
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Old 2012-06-21, 08:22   Link #243
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
That was kind of the point of Kiritsugu's character though. Ever since he was young, he could act completely independant of his feelings and emotions, and every single character who reflected upon it considered it as 'something wrong with him.' Its that fundamental flaw in his mind that leads him on the path he chose growing up.

While they certainly could have developed his character in the way you mentioned, it's this inability to reconcile Kiritsugu and his particular flaws with normal people that make his struggle an important one, and more importantly, make his struggle mirror Kirei's. It's this flaw that makes Kiritsugu so desperate for the Holy Grail, and it's Kiritsugu's desperation that makes Kirei desperate to understand him.

Thats how I feel atleast.
I still think everything you said could be true even if they made his trigger-happy persona the result of traumatization from the zombie incident. It would explain why he's like that... as it is, he just 'is' this way, and by some extremely grand coincidence ended up growing up learning elite assassin tactics... Much easier for me to believe his bizarre mentality was a 'co-morbid' condition, so to speak, that developed as a result of his continual exposure to violent situations, and his regret in being unable to save his friend.

It's really a minor nit-pick on my part, though. I have thoroughly enjoyed this series and it is one of the first anime in a long time to have me excited to watch each week.
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Old 2012-06-21, 10:15   Link #244
mAc Chaos
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Well, it's not like the zombie situation didn't have any effect. He was a normal happy kid before that.
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Old 2012-06-21, 12:06   Link #245
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Yeah, I don't think that innate ability to compartmentalize his emotions from his actions is at all mutually exclusive from the traumas that made him decide to use that ability.

Quite honestly, "normal" people don't grow up seriously intending to SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD. Their countries? Sure, in specific cases. But as pretty much everyone has now pointed out--on and off screen--this is a childish wish that most of us outgrow early on because it's logistically (and logically) untenable.
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Old 2012-06-21, 12:39   Link #246
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Originally Posted by Doria View Post
Yeah, I don't think that innate ability to compartmentalize his emotions from his actions is at all mutually exclusive from the traumas that made him decide to use that ability.

Quite honestly, "normal" people don't grow up seriously intending to SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD. Their countries? Sure, in specific cases. But as pretty much everyone has now pointed out--on and off screen--this is a childish wish that most of us outgrow early on because it's logistically (and logically) untenable.
I believe his traumas played a part too, but the novel prologue can sort of be interpreted as him having been special to begin with and that he wouldn't have outgrown that wish regardless:

Spoiler:


Though yeah, I lean more towards him having become broken in that way because of what happened and not because of any sort of inherent condition (like Kirei's).
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Old 2012-06-21, 16:44   Link #247
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Yes, I think even that passage--at least in that translation--specifies heavily that it is the man they are describing. It doesn't say anything about the child he was (who was presumably more or less normal). You can't separate the man from his childhood experiences, though I do agree that since not everyone who experiences terrible childhoods grow into saving the world martyrs, that isn't the only cause per se. There has to be some inclination there, as well, whether that stems from biology or upbringing.

And I totally agree that this is in direct and unsubtle contrast to Kirei whose sociopathy/psychopathy is pretty clearly a state of being, regardless of age or experience.

I don't particularly like Kiritsugu (even after reading the novels, etc.), but I can certainly understand at least why he'd have been damaged the way he was by his formative experiences, and why he'd feel the compulsive need to gamble everything on the hope of a miracle that prove it had all been worthwhile, even as it redressed the damages. I think that much, at least, is a pretty human response.

I can't remember where I saw it. but I think someone else had mentioned Future Diary, and although it's less developed in that series, I think you can see something of the same psychology in late-series Yuuki.
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Old 2012-06-21, 16:46   Link #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doria View Post
Yes, I think even that passage--at least in that translation--specifies heavily that it is the man they are describing. It doesn't say anything about the child he was (who was presumably more or less normal). You can't separate the man from his childhood experiences, though I do agree that since not everyone who experiences terrible childhoods grow into saving the world martyrs, that isn't the only cause per se. There has to be some inclination there, as well, whether that stems from biology or upbringing.
in Naurverse that would be Kiritsugu's Origin (Severing and Binding), it doesn't just make bullets that kill mages.
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Old 2012-06-22, 03:07   Link #249
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I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsXNOaS5M4
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Old 2012-06-22, 09:47   Link #250
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Okay now I'm confused, who is Ilya's parents again?
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Old 2012-06-22, 09:49   Link #251
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The kid in video would be Caren, I think.
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Old 2012-06-22, 10:08   Link #252
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
I didn't know Kirei had a dauther.

*Googles her*

She seems to be a character from Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.

*Urge to play F/HA increased*
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Old 2012-06-23, 10:12   Link #253
Raviel
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Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
Watching that felt...........wrong on several levels.

Seeing Kotomine look happy with his family made me feel something twist in my gut; it just doesn't feel right, especially when the images are matched to Sora Wa Takaku


On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else think that Iri's voice actor should be given some props for her performance during the scene right after Kiritsugu shoots the illusion of Illya that the Grail conjures up.

I know it wasn't really Iri and Illya he killed but damn did Iri's voice carry some emotion in that scene.
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Old 2012-06-23, 14:10   Link #254
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Definitely. She did an amazing job in that scene.
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Old 2012-06-24, 10:19   Link #255
Guido
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24th War: The Last Command Spell

Fate/Zero broadcasted its last episode yesterday, but, fortunately, the hype is still fresh so I know I'll be able to watch the last episode some before June runs out.


Now, the climax going forward to the conclusion of the Fourth Holy War became a banquet of men that rocked the doors of heavens.

Even if in a hypothetic scenario we took the Godspeed action going crazy between two formidable foes- Kiritsugu vs Kotomine- the will of the Grail itself offering its philosophy to tempt the one it deems worthy of taking it was not only thought provoking, but it made to realize someone as consequential and nihislistic to Kiritsugu that its supposed 'Truth' to grant any miracles around the world is ....

Spoiler:


Kiritsugu has been shackled by the burden to uphold his values and ideals to sacrifice the minority in order to save the majority in countless numbers at the expense of a small amount of victims.
Spoiler:


And, definitely, there was something wrong and suspicious inside the Grail.
Spoiler:


Now, moving on with the fight:
Kiritsugu vs Kotomine match will ever be echoed in the hearts of the fans, as one of the most epic Master duels in the anals of the Fate fandom history.

The execution of the fight and choreography displayed skyrocketed far beyond "The Matrix" standards. So beautiful, sublime and yet so deadly; the Magus Killer vs the Executioner, and right now there's nothing else I could ever asked for.

That match plus the intromission of the Grail itself far outclassed and outweighed all of Sabers' scenes in this episode, simply because she's just too regretful and obsessed with the guilt for having caused such madness on her dear friend, and it doesn't let her to get a clear view of what lies ahead in front.

I'm sorry for Saber but Kiritsugu immediately used his remaining Command Spells to put an end to this theatrical charade that the Fourth Holy Grail War of Fuyuki City has spiraled down into.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:


All masters except for Kiritsugu have either been taken down or retired, and now it's only two servants left- Saber and Archer- to move on with the conclusion and closing of the Fourth Holy Grail War in the last episode.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:52   Link #256
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Excellent episode which might have felt like something missing in certain parts but still the flow was awesome enough to not matter. I liked the final kind of introspection; Emiya the heartless asshole who thinks only in terms of numbers, and Kirei, who's just an asshole. Tense as hell, really.

9/10
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