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Old 2012-06-19, 03:00   Link #41
MisaoFan
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I do enjoy both kinds of shows : for me, harems feature a young male lead surrounded by girls, but he is oblivious to the main heroine's feelings due to misunderstandings and accidents, and he can't really stand up for himself (unless he's strong or something) because of her. In opposite side, the all-girls shows features strong emphasis on relationships between the heroines, their motivations and their dark pasts, and the various emotions displayed by them are executed well and fit what they do. However, I don't have any preference for any of them, but I do love them because of their interesting plots presents in many shows.
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Old 2012-06-19, 04:15   Link #42
starlol
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Harem - I don't like the excess amount of fan service but with a male character, it will be easier to have more (pervertic) jokes
All girls - It can get a bit too bland.
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Old 2012-06-19, 04:28   Link #43
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
That's the second thread in two days about people being confused by the lack of a male presence. I don't understand this perspective. What is it about a profusion of girls that's so strange? There's always the underlying idea that being full of girls somehow makes it inherently worse, though that's a false premise if I've ever seen one.
It's because these people need a character to relate to or even worst project themselves onto, something they can't really do in a show like say K-ON!. That's why so many leads are just blank slates and are dense and don't choose anyone. Pity because if you make a lead with an actual personality you have a far higher chance to have a breakout character, see Lelouche from Code Geass.

Personally I don't really care but I would prefer a mixed gender cast over either options.
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Old 2012-06-19, 04:39   Link #44
Sheba
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I too would prefer a mixed genre option. What would be refereshing about the harem genre would be a boisterous or a "big brother-like" male lead like Rider from Fate/Zero, or Eikichi Onizuka. Another interesting take would be MORE THAN ONE male lead, something like three brothers or three friends, and watch the shenanigans and chemistry.
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Old 2012-06-21, 22:43   Link #45
gsilver
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*walks in with a cane*

The biggest difference between anime now and back in my day is that back then (late 90s) was that the main thing people talked about back then was "complex plots" Now, it's all about "cute girls"... What happened?

Now get off the dang lawn!


...If the cute girls thing is here to stay, then where's the moe Evangelion, the moe Cowboy Bebop, and the moe Serial Experiments Lain? Even if we're stuck with cute girls doing cute things, I want more of cute girls doing cute things... with a plot! Madoka is a step in the right direction, even if it overplays the grimdark.

Well, at least we have a moe Akagi. Wait. Akagi was already moe!
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Old 2012-06-21, 22:54   Link #46
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This is sort of a false dichotomy because I think the topic starter is implying that if a show isn't an all-girls cast then it's a harem.
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Old 2012-06-21, 23:03   Link #47
Midonin
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Characters are more important than plot, I believe. You can get a lot of mileage out of character interaction, and the right character interaction can lead to what is traditionally called a plot. An audience will remember strong characters, though I do see the importance of plot twists and such.

It depends on if one thinks characters are there to serve the needs of the plot, or the plot is there to serve the needs of the characters.
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Old 2012-06-21, 23:10   Link #48
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuudou View Post
This is sort of a false dichotomy because I think the topic starter is implying that if a show isn't an all-girls cast then it's a harem.
Actually, I think the topic starter assumes there's a lot more parallels between the two types of anime than there actually are because there's one guy in one and none in the other.

For me, I don't really watch a harem and watch an "all girls" anime expecting the same things from both. They don't have to be similar at all.
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Old 2012-06-22, 00:37   Link #49
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It took a bit of Google searching to find this old article (some content on the site may be slightly NSFW, but the article itself isn't), but I think it's relevant. Without wanting to regurgitate the whole thing, the author proposes that there are four different categories of moe images, and that they exist on a sort of continuum that involves different levels of involvement of "the male gaze" (or that of his narrative proxy). The net result, if you buy into his theory anyway, is that both harem anime and these "all girls" anime (as they are so-called here) can both very much center around moe characters, but the main difference is the type of moe on display in the work. So I think it's quite true that a) these sorts of works have less in common than some (like the OP) might think, and b) you can't really try to approach them in the same way just because it seems like both types of works center around female, moe characters. It's pretty clear that the kinds of interactions that are shown and encouraged in a show featuring moe characters with a prominent male lead are totally different than the types of interactions you would find in a show where there is no male lead at all, but this is because the shows have totally different objectives/goals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
The biggest difference between anime now and back in my day is that back then (late 90s) was that the main thing people talked about back then was "complex plots" Now, it's all about "cute girls"... What happened?
I would say "Late-Night TV anime and the Internet happened", but this is really a topic for another thread (that has, granted, been done before).
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Old 2012-06-22, 01:19   Link #50
risingstar3110
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Anyone still have that short comic of a guy explaining how harem series turned into "all-girls" manga/anime to his guy friend (with his friend mostly butting in something like "Why am I even your friend in the 1st place")?
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Old 2012-06-22, 02:06   Link #51
Kirito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
Characters are more important than plot, I believe. You can get a lot of mileage out of character interaction, and the right character interaction can lead to what is traditionally called a plot. An audience will remember strong characters, though I do see the importance of plot twists and such.

It depends on if one thinks characters are there to serve the needs of the plot, or the plot is there to serve the needs of the characters.
I agree because many great shows with strong character interactions make the plot flow naturally and fluently. I also think that character motivation is key considering that while interactions deals with the appearance of others, motivation I find is a need for "independence".

Every character is different and I also find it interesting to see what motivates them to do what do, and the ups and downs that comes with the steps they take. Motivation varies from case to case, but the drive and the risks they take to do what they feel is right can help a story flow naturally just like the interactions between each character.
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Old 2012-06-22, 03:00   Link #52
Ithekro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
*walks in with a cane*

The biggest difference between anime now and back in my day is that back then (late 90s) was that the main thing people talked about back then was "complex plots" Now, it's all about "cute girls"... What happened?

Now get off the dang lawn!
*Cough* Akira Yamamoto

Space Battleship Yamato 2199

*Cough*
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Old 2012-06-22, 08:35   Link #53
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoChan View Post
I wish the MOD will make this a poll thread as well... To start, I tried to watch animes that has an all girl cast like Queen's Blade or some shoujo ai anime but I feel a bit uncomfortable due to the absence of male leads or at the least, male supporting cast. No doubt I love harem because of the girls fighting over a guy.

What do you think? Do you prefer Harem or an All Girls only anime...?
You make your own polls (read the instructions)?

I don't get the whole premise of the thread (and apparently neither do many other people). An "all-girl cast" isn't a genre. Conflating "Queen's Blade" and "K-on!"?

And why does the presence or absence of a male character drive comfort? Since this is like the 3rd or 4th thread like this in a couple of weeks ("girls, they're scary, durr?") I'm starting to get trigger-twitchy.

I *do* prefer mixed cast ensembles (e.g. Sketchbook ~full colors~) though I *get* that japanese fans find the "mysterious" (rofl) world of girls talking to girls fascinating. I also prefer non-high school settings simply due to the utter overkill of high school settings. Yes, its nostalgic for 20-somethingish salarymen but surely college was a fun lark as well?
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Old 2012-06-23, 06:12   Link #54
Kirarakim
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Yeah I don't understand the obsession with high school either. Even a lot of Seinen & Josei are set there too.

Maybe it's the school uniforms
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Old 2012-06-23, 11:20   Link #55
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Yeah I don't understand the obsession with high school either. Even a lot of Seinen & Josei are set there too.

Maybe it's the school uniforms
Be specific... the skirts..

I prefer harem. Jokes, romance, action, tsundere, moe and sex clashes are never boring for me.. and which has a good plot...
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Old 2012-06-23, 14:57   Link #56
Tempester
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Show any "all girls" anime or 90% of harems to a typical Hollywood movie producer, and their head will explode because they're used to failing the Bechdel test.
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:00   Link #57
Magin
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The thing with high school is, IMO, that it's a time of "purity" and "innocence", before you graduate and realize what the Real World has to offer. There's also the fact that usually whenever the setting is at college, the plotline tends to get more mature and sexualized (not that all anime that happens at college follows this)

But anyways, I have to go with harem personally. While an all girl cast does have its place, a good portion of the time there are yuri undertones caused either by the director or the fans putting on the goggles... and I am one of the few guys in existence that strongly dislikes yuri. At least in a harem, it's heterosexual love with at least one (usually three or more though) girls, and even if the guy is a complete loser, I can still identify with him*. In an all girls cast... unless the plot is also strong and interesting, I can't really connect with a character.

*Please note that I also bash my head against the wall repeatedly when the male lead is a pathetic loser. And as for harem males getting better... well, here's what I've noticed: if you have around 10~15 harems shows per year, if you're lucky, three to five of them will have a strong male lead. The rest... are just TnA fests
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:08   Link #58
Triple_R
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There's an old adage amongst writers - "Write what you know."

What it basically means is don't write something that exists in the real world that you have no real world experience with. The reason being that when somebody who does have RW experience with that reads what you wrote about it, you run the risk of seeming like a total hack writer to that person.

It's like writing a story all about politics when you've never been involved in politics at all, or writing a story where the main character runs a company when you've never ran any businesses at all, etc...


Now, what's something that just about everybody goes through in today's world?

High school.

So this is something that the VN/LN/manga writer knows, from personal first-hand experience.

College they might be less knowledgeable about, and hence not feel as confident about. Maybe many VN/LN/manga writers never went to College? I honestly don't know. I'm just putting that out there for consideration.
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:27   Link #59
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magin View Post

*Please note that I also bash my head against the wall repeatedly when the male lead is a pathetic loser. And as for harem males getting better... well, here's what I've noticed: if you have around 10~15 harems shows per year, if you're lucky, three to five of them will have a strong male lead. The rest... are just TnA fests

Now that's an interesting statement Lets use 2011 as a sample since it's the most recent complete year, by my count there are 24 harem shows (or shows with harem elements in them).... If I missed out one let me know, after all I don't watch everything...

Spoiler for list:
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:40   Link #60
Kyero Fox
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My Ideal harem anime's are Tenshi Muyo and Rosario + Vampire(Manga) Neither have dimwitted leads and both of them have pretty damn good story and very evened out and reasonable fanservice, not thrown at you like a pie at a circus.

My only gripe with all female cast shows is the people who assume any girl/girl interaction is lesbian. And the badly over loaded fanservice ones like Queens blade.


So if there were more GOOD anime's of these two.... yea..


@ Chaos2Frozen - maken-ki 's lead is Meeeh. he's not really strong as the female leads. But he has the ultimate power deep inside him.
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