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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 78 49.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 44 27.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 8.81%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 8.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.26%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.26%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.63%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.63%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.89%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-24, 02:09   Link #121
matapat
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Enjoyed the finale, their moving part of Lancelot's death speech to the end with Saber's reflections really worked quite well in a knife-twisting manner.

But the way they edited Sakura at Kariya's death and consumption really changed the context of the original scene. It almost felt like Loli Dark Sakura had briefly taken control of her and she chucked his body in the worm pit

And every scene with Kotomine was amazing, and his bitter disappointment at the sight of the broken Kiritsugu who wasn't even worth killing in the end, a shell of the man he fought the duel to the death with the episode before. I wanna see a HF adaptation even more now just to continue his magnificent bastardry.
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Old 2012-06-24, 02:16   Link #122
zero7090
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how about next week the make a preview ep for HF just like the macross frontier?
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Old 2012-06-24, 02:21   Link #123
whatbob1
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Quote:
But the way they edited Sakura at Kariya's death and consumption really changed the context of the original scene. It almost felt like Loli Dark Sakura had briefly taken control of her and she chucked his body in the worm pit
Maybe its urobunchi way of saying F U to Nasu . Nasu did veto the idea of dark sakura killing kariya for the LN.


But now even more people will dislike Sakura.
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Old 2012-06-24, 02:22   Link #124
Goddess Madoka
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
..it's merely a cover for the script on ep25. nothing special. They had been doing it for the past 24 already.
...that maybe true. However, the previous episodes' script covers lacked that tiny PS by Gen... whether that PS actually signalled the end of the anime, or the adaptation of a route (Hopefully, Heaven's Feel) remains to be seen...

July the 6th, right? We shall wait...
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Old 2012-06-24, 02:47   Link #125
Wigwams
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just need to share what i read!

kotomine kirei's real wish was to see gilgamesh naked!
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Old 2012-06-24, 02:54   Link #126
nawal
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"Let my blood taint your dreams , Let the Grail be cursed , Let the wish it grants bring disaster" Diarmuid Ua Duibhne (Lancer)
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Old 2012-06-24, 03:36   Link #127
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yo Lancelot-chan, whats with all the rage? why don't you just have a threesome with both Arthur & Guine? i bet you will experience something beyond nirvana.....
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Old 2012-06-24, 03:45   Link #128
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by nawal View Post
"Let my blood taint your dreams , Let the Grail be cursed , Let the wish it grants bring disaster" Diarmuid Ua Duibhne (Lancer)
The grail was cursed to begin with since the third grail war.

I feel sorry for Rin and Sakura for having shitty parents.
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Old 2012-06-24, 03:51   Link #129
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How come Kerry was cursed by Holy Grail? Is it because of Lancer's curse?

I mean I know that and that he started losing his vision, magic circuits started to wear out, but why?
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Old 2012-06-24, 03:59   Link #130
Kimidori
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Originally Posted by Aqua Knight View Post
How come Kerry was cursed by Holy Grail? Is it because of Lancer's curse?

I mean I know that and that he started losing his vision, magic circuits started to wear out, but why?
watch episode 24, Irisviel who being possessed by Angra Mainyu cursed him when he choking her
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Old 2012-06-24, 04:01   Link #131
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Great finale. The only thing I was disappointed with was the lack of a scene for Gilgamesh overcoming the Grail, which was one of the scenes I was looking forward to the most since learning about a prequel to F/SN. It was disappointing when they just showed him already free of it and it made me think the novel glossed over the process too, but it seems such a scene did exist there, so it was probably just skipped and will be in the BDs (hopefully). Once again, much like in Season 1, Gil continues to be the primary sacrificial lamb for the TV edits of the episodes. Goddamn mongrels.

But while Gil was more of a supporting character here (despite the eye-catching nakedness), his partner Kirei received quite a bit of the spotlight, with a mighty powerful conclusion (Jouji Nakata's laughing was delicious) to the spiritual journey he underwent in Fate/Zero. And how fitting was it that he finally and fully accepted his inherently evil nature shortly after he'd become physically heartless as well. However, despite his gleeful laughter, it's clear to me that his emotional outburst was also one of hopeless resignation, hence his tearful expression and self-deprecating words, and I think Gilgamesh understood that as well, hence his own expression as he gazed upon Kirei, which seemed to be (partially) one of pity to me. Pity for the priest who could never find joy or pleasure in anything but that which he's been taught to scorn his entire life.

Going back to the BD talk though, it turns out that some of Lancelot's parts whose absence caused so much rage in the previous episode were simply moved over to this one. Not sure how wise a move that was, since, while it did make Saber's end here even more tragic, it still made his own abrupt death rather devoid of emotional impact at the time. Still, better late than never and I'm glad to get a handle on his character after all, though I do hope the BDs will still go more in-depth into him and Arturia and their past. Still, it was a good final speech by the fallen knight, though I wonder just how sincere he was being there when he called Saber the greatest of kings and said everyone at the Round Table felt the same way. Seems to me as if he was mostly just trying to cheer her up now that he'd found atonement at last, because the second part at last we know to be untrue, since Saber mentioned that one knight who left Camelot claiming Arthur didn't understand how others felt.

Still, a fitting sendoff for them, as was the case for the remaining cast as well. Kariya's fantasy didn't reveal anything we didn't already know about him, but it was hard-hitting nonetheless, and Waver finally recognizing the potential awesomeness of videogames was also nice. And, last but definitely not least, Kiritsugu also received a very touching conclusion, cementing his role as a great protagonist, even if that wasn't entirely clear at the start of the show. The scene of him finding Shirou was as poignant as I'd hoped, with the latter's narration being very accurate and very heartfelt. After an entire life of nothing but suffering and the end result of it all having been yet another tragedy, simply finding and rescuing one small life was salvation for Kiritsugu's weary and bloodstained heart and soul. Just like Shirou understood, Kiritsugu himself was the one who was truly saved at that moment, and in so many ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainz View Post
The only real sad side to Kirei's conclusion is how Kiritsugu totally ignored him at the end. Its as if he's not even worth noticing anymore. For someone that Kirei obsessed over throughout the war to do that to him, it must have hurt his pride quite a bit.
Indeed. It says a lot about his character when Kirei, whose character arc in Fate/Zero was all about him embracing his repressed tendency for schadenfreude, could not find pleasure in witnessing Kiritsugu's suffering.

It wasn't just about how Kiritsugu ignored him though. Kiritsugu's actions (searching for survivors) were what ticked him off. Kiritsugu had discarded everything and become seemingly empty like Kirei in his quest for the Grail, but at the end of it all, he not only rejected the Grail, but also tried to pick back up that which he'd discarded (his humanity) by looking for lives that could still be saved. After temporarily forcing himself to become like Kirei out of necessity, he went back to his old self (which was made all the more clear by the life he led with Shirou afterwards), which was a huge "fuck you" to Kirei, as it basically sent the message that his existence was wrong (and Kirei has been plagued by existential doubt throughout his entire life).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
All-in-all, a nice conclusion to this great series. I do wish they could have brought in Shiro's VA from FSN to do his voice in that last scene for nostalgia's sake, but meh.
Except that was his VA from FSN. Junko Noda has always voiced kid Shirou. Only teenage Shirou is voiced by Noriaki Sugiyama. And just like here it was the former that voiced him in his scenes with Kiritsugu in the VN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
I'm not quite sure of that, he believed he couldn't turn his back on the ideal, because in his mind, everything would he suffered would become meaningless unless he achieved world peace, but at the heart of the matter, the guy was just broken (remember how Natalia described his 'talent')and all he wanted was all this bad stuff to stop. So he ended up seeking the assumed 'quick fix button' called the Holy Grail. Unfortunately, he didn't seem to think this though quite hard enough.

Ideologies and personal desires aren't mutually exclusive from each other.
Uh, Kiritsugu already dreamed about becoming a hero before his suffering and quest for the Grail began. He may have not replied to Shirley back when she asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, but the ending of this episode makes it clear that the answer was "I want to become a hero" all along. And that desire/ideal/dream/whatever-you-wanna-call-it came before he started staining his hands with blood, so no, it wasn't about wanting the bad stuff to stop, because he already dreamed about it before the bad stuff even began.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I didn't like the inexplicable deus ex machina revival of Kirei - I would have preferred it if he hadn't been killed in the first place. And Aoi somehow surviving being seemingly choked to death was odd.
How was that DEM? He was saved by the Holy Grail, which was introduced in the first episode. And it was also made clear in episode 12, when Kirei gained new Command Spells shortly after losing Assassin, that the Grail likes Kirei.

As for Aoi, if she's alive, then clearly she wasn't choked to death. Granted, ufotable's depiction of the strangling scene did make it seem like she was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
yo Lancelot-chan, whats with all the rage? why don't you just have a threesome with both Arthur & Guine? i bet you will experience something beyond nirvana.....
That would require Guinevere wanting something to do with Arthur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Knight View Post
How come Kerry was cursed by Holy Grail? Is it because of Lancer's curse?

I mean I know that and that he started losing his vision, magic circuits started to wear out, but why?
Lancer's curse, as awesome as it was, had nothing to do with it. The Grail was already corrupt beforehand, which is why a "hero" like Caster was allowed to be summoned.

Kerry was cursed because he was bathed in the Grail's contents and offered a wish, but rejected it, which the Grail didn't take well, thus cursing him. Refer to his strangling of Grail!Irisviel in the previous episode. She actually says it out loud "I curse you. Lament until the day you die" etc.

Whereas Kirei, who in turn was very much fond of the Grail, was essentially brought back to life by it. You reap what you sow with Grail-kun.

Last edited by Vicious108; 2012-06-24 at 04:12.
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Old 2012-06-24, 04:01   Link #132
Haak
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That was a great finale that really tied up the loose threads. Naked Gil was pretty lolworthy, as was seeing Genki Taiga in the background. My favourite moment had to be Saber going back to her living hell and breaking down. That was quite shocking for me because i don;t think we ever saw that happen in the visual novel. This was the first time seeing her so anguished and it really drove home just how much she desired the Holy Grail. In end she never even understood why Kiritsugu ordered her to destroy which must've been even worse. It's bad enough that you put in everything you got and still lose but not even knowing why?

Kariya's dream was also kind of lolworthy because all that was going on in my mind was:
Spoiler for Clannad After Story:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I didn't like the inexplicable deus ex machina revival of Kirei - I would have preferred it if he hadn't been killed in the first place.
For the record, it's explained more in the Visual Novel. XP
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Old 2012-06-24, 04:31   Link #133
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by Rhystic View Post
So if Guinevere was Arthur's queen, does that make Saber a lesbian?
Merlin gave Arthuria a dick for a while.

Though Saber never did the act. So technically speaking she's still a virgin both ways till Shirou and Rin came along.
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Old 2012-06-24, 05:56   Link #134
MrTerrorist
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Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
yo Lancelot-chan, whats with all the rage? why don't you just have a threesome with both Arthur & Guine? i bet you will experience something beyond nirvana.....
You are a genius!

Now lets hope some fanfic writer/doujin artist does it!
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Old 2012-06-24, 07:00   Link #135
OPN
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Great finale. I really hope that UFOtable decides to do a heavens feel anime with F/Z being so successful preferably a TV anime .
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Old 2012-06-24, 07:20   Link #136
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
How was that DEM? He was saved by the Holy Grail, which was introduced in the first episode. And it was also made clear in episode 12, when Kirei gained new Command Spells shortly after losing Assassin, that the Grail likes Kirei.
The Grail itself is a bit of a DEM, but this is something I'm willing to overlook as long as its actions don't go much beyond "Surprise! You're not going to like the way I grant wishes." and the Command Spells bit you mentioned.

I also feel that character resurrection is a horribly overused trope (arguably cliche) in fiction in general, and so I generally don't like seeing it, period. There are exceptions, but this isn't one of them, as it's not like Kirei had to die in order for the plot to work. Kiritsugu could have just knocked him out, or tranquilized him, last episode.
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Old 2012-06-24, 07:41   Link #137
Kanon
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Great finale, although it was not perfect.

They badly handled Kariya's death scene. They made Sakura look like a heartless bitch rather than a confused and scared child. My other gripe is the absence of scene where Gil mindfucks the Grail. Hopefully, they'll add it in the BDs.

Moving Lancelot's dying speech to this episode is not a bad idea in retrospect. I'm glad the reasons for his madness were explained, even if it remains a bit muddy.

The scene where Kirei embraces his true nature was quite gripping. He has finally found the answer to his existential questions, however that answer was the worst possible. He realized he is exactly what he has been taught to loathe his whole life. He is actually quite a tragic character. A man who wished (and tried) to be good and yet can only revel in evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The Grail itself is a bit of a DEM, but this is something I'm willing to overlook as long as its actions don't go much beyond "Surprise! You're not going to like the way I grant wishes." and the Command Spells bit you mentioned.

I also feel that character resurrection is a horribly overused trope (arguably cliche) in fiction in general, and so I generally don't like seeing it, period. There are exceptions, but this isn't one of them, as it's not like Kirei had to die in order for the plot to work. Kiritsugu could have just knocked him out, or tranquilized him, last episode.
On the contrary, Kirei had to die in order the plot to work and tie in with F/SN. Don't forget Fate/Zero is a prequel. It was already asserted in Fate/Stay Night that Kirei had been killed and had been resurrected by the Grail. This is not something that could have been changed in a prequel. The writer was restrained by the pre-existing work.
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Old 2012-06-24, 08:16   Link #138
DragoZERO
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So much light novel talk...
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Old 2012-06-24, 11:57   Link #139
ksho
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
You are a genius!

Now lets hope some fanfic writer/doujin artist does it!
You guys should definitely read this fanfic then....

Behind Closed Doors

Prepare to be blown away by Lancelot & Guinevere's bedroom antics with Arturia!
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Old 2012-06-24, 12:10   Link #140
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Quote:
Uh, Kiritsugu already dreamed about becoming a hero before his suffering and quest for the Grail began. He may have not replied to Shirley back when she asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, but the ending of this episode makes it clear that the answer was "I want to become a hero" all along. And that desire/ideal/dream/whatever-you-wanna-call-it came before he started staining his hands with blood, so no, it wasn't about wanting the bad stuff to stop, because he already dreamed about it before the bad stuff even began.
I know he already aspired to it before the suffering, but the suffering is essentially what made him so desperate for it and how he went to such lengths to seek everlasting peace. It's an aspiration that is common, but the extent to which he follows it are brought about because of his sufferings, which was my point. It's the desperation of it that I highlighted in my post that was important, otherwise, can you really say he would go so far without those catalysts?
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