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Old 2012-06-24, 01:43   Link #61
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post

My only gripe with all female cast shows is the people who assume any girl/girl interaction is lesbian.
And then eventually it's the fans that dictates the direction of the series, heh...

*cough3rdNanohamangacough*

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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
@ Chaos2Frozen - maken-ki 's lead is Meeeh. he's not really strong as the female leads. But he has the ultimate power deep inside him.
Ahh, so he's those type...


EDIT:
But this is more towards their personality being strong and not any power, you know, just to be fair to non-fighting series.
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:46   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And then eventually it's the fans that dictates the direction of the series heh.



Ahh, so he's those type...
Yep, Also I don't know if Rosario to Vampire should be on your list, but its Lead is certainly the (Eh at first -> Super Bad Ass, who deserves more than what he's givin)
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:49   Link #63
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Yep, Also I don't know if Rosario to Vampire should be on your list, but its Lead is certainly the (Eh at first -> Super Bad Ass, who deserves more than what he's givin)
I'm keeping it simple and using only last year's Otherwise I'll be at it for a LONG time
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Old 2012-06-24, 01:50   Link #64
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Yuu, Tsukune and Tenshi are the kings of harem.
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Old 2012-06-24, 03:50   Link #65
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Spoiler for list:
I think I miss the nice guys and useless guys now...
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Old 2012-06-24, 04:37   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Spoiler for list:
What exactly is your criteria for making these judgements? You're going to have to be more specific than just saying it's their "personality". Especially for folks who haven't watched much of these shows.

Also, I recommend you look up what a "Yuuji Everylead" is and then try again. (Hint: It's not a good thing.)
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Old 2012-06-24, 05:02   Link #67
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
What exactly is your criteria for making these judgements? You're going to have to be more specific than just saying it's their "personality". Especially for folks who haven't watched much of these shows.

Also, I recommend you look up what a "Yuuji Everylead" is and then try again. (Hint: It's not a good thing.)

At the heart of it all I really only have one condition, when push comes to shove is that character reliable? Can you count on them? Whether or not you like their personality or agree with their decisions is not the issue. The post that I quote used the vague term 'strong male lead', and by my understanding that means someone you can rely on or maybe even respect, someone that stands up for himself when it counts the most.

That's all there is; no need to make it any more complicated than necessary, if you're going to start piling on conditions after conditions then where would it end? Until we find the perfect guy?
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Old 2012-06-24, 05:09   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Spoiler for list:
Hmmm... I kinda agree with ChaosFrozen here... Luckily I watched all of the anime he listed as strong.... Most of the guys here have scenes where in they stood up above the rest or in other words, out wittted/out lasted the girls.

We often see "super dense" lead that just act like an idiot... and get bullied by girls which kinda disappointing.... a strong harem anime is being ran by the lead guy and not the other way around.
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Old 2012-06-24, 05:16   Link #69
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Hmmm... I kinda agree with ChaosFrozen here... Luckily I watched all of the anime he listed as strong.... Most of the guys here have scenes where in they stood up above the rest or in other words, out wittted/out lasted the girls.

We often see "super dense" lead that just act like an idiot... and get bullied by girls which kinda disappointing.... a strong harem anime is being ran by the lead guy and not the other way around.
For me though I'm willing to let slide most of the harem romcom girls beat on guy jokes because well... Call it occupational hazard But when things get serious he has to know when to put his game face on, and hopefully those moments outshine the bads.

But long story short, my main point is shows with 'strong male lead' are hardly a rarity now... You just need to have better eyes to not pick the few bad ones lol I mean come on it's really not that difficult
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Old 2012-06-24, 05:18   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
For me though I'm willing to let slide most of the harem romcom girls beat on guy jokes because well... Call it occupational hazard But when things get serious he has to know when to put his game face on, and hopefully those moments outshine the bads.
Now I say we are at the same side...
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Old 2012-06-25, 02:26   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That's all there is; no need to make it any more complicated than necessary, if you're going to start piling on conditions after conditions then where would it end? Until we find the perfect guy?
It kind of goes without saying because harem shows require a certain combination of factors to work:

1. The protagonist has to attract multiple potential mates for whatever reason (whether it's judged to be "deserved" or "not deserved" is up to the author to suggest and the viewer to decide)

2. The protagonist has to act in such a way that will perpetuate the question of "who he will choose", which gives the potential mates a reason to continue their pursuit.

3. The protagonist's presence can't overshadow that of the potential mates, because they are just as important to the audience if not more so.

4. The protagonist must not "cross the line" with any potential mate unless they are the final choice (except if this is a melodrama or a tragedy). (Where the "line" is can sometimes be one of the points.)

So based on all these factors, the protagonist basically has to be flawed in some way, and possibly in a certain specific set of ways to perpetuate the fantasy.

Still, though, when they talk about a "Yuuji Everylead", the issue isn't whether or not they're reliable when push comes to shove (even Yuuji himself doesn't remain powerless), but how bland/dull their personality otherwise is. If the protagonist just goes with the flow most of the time and, when the time comes, saves the day simply because they're the protagonist and it's back to the status quo... it's not very distinctive or memorable. The oft-quoted theory here is that these sorts of male lead characters are ostensibly easier for the target audience to relate to (because their lack of distinctiveness gives them more in common with as many people as possible), but people who don't want to see the protagonist as a "sit-in" for themselves argue that this is too "pandering" and/or plain.

I think that, regardless of the protagonist's other traits, the more the show emphasizes the protagonist's inability to make a romantic decision, the more frustrated some people will be with both the show and the protagonist. But of course, the fact the protagonist won't choose is the point because, once the protagonist chooses, the story ends. That's the genre. Anecdotally, I have in fact seen some people whose frustration with this issue inherent to the genre is what causes them to prefer the "All Girls" anime the OP is proposing, because they can see it as "all great heroines, no annoying male lead". So I guess there can be a link between the two styles of shows, even though they're otherwise also quite different.
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Old 2012-06-25, 07:10   Link #72
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There also seems to be a bigger tolerance of annoying female leads because of their ... well gender, appearance or sexuallity. Never have I heard anyone talk about a "Stupid yuri anime/manga" from people other than people who just down right hate the stuff.
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:09   Link #73
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Relentlessflame's expositiont there is one reason I don't classify "harem anime" as a romance any more except for a few outlier exceptions:
1) adaptation is constructed as a triangle only from the outset (Canvas 2, Petopetosan)
2) adaptation of the VN is a one route all the way (e.g. Lamune)
3) adaptation is of a specific romance and not "harem" to begin with (Love Complex, Toradora!, REC, Wallflower, etc)
4) adaptation is of an ensemble group (Honey&Clover, etc)
5) adaptation is of the recent omnibus presentation short story style

Otherwise ... Horse race? maybe. Now, they may have designed compelling and attractive characters for which I'll watch - but I've become totally disengaged from the "who is chosen" frenzy.
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:14   Link #74
Chaos2Frozen
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Just one question because I keep getting the strange feeling that I'm on a different wavelength here...

When you guys talk about Harem Animes, are you talking about Pure Harem-Focused Animes only (eg. Haganai, Mayo Chiki!) or do you also include Animes with Harem elements (eg. Persona 4, Horizon)
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:28   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
When you guys talk about Harem Animes, are you talking about Pure Harem-Focused Animes only (eg. Haganai, Mayo Chiki!) or do you also include Animes with Harem elements (eg. Persona 4, Horizon)
Easy there chief. I don't think the distinction is as black and white as you insinuate it to be (Bakemonogatari comes to mind). However, even if a label can match a show, if there's a better way to describe the series then I'll use another classification instead.

Of course there's always the caveat of something not really belonging to any one genre but how many writers can actually pull that off?
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:33   Link #76
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Aye.. categorization is a sludgy grey Venn Diagram with no hard lines. For instance, my decision described above to remove "harem of the week" anime from my "romance" tagging is purely a personal one, not something I'm foisting on anyone else.
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:40   Link #77
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One thing I hate to hear about people may said about an anime where 90% of the characters are female, especially teenage girls and they quickly thought it going to be moe or ecchi "craps". How "crappy" is Taishou Yakyuu Musume for example? TYM is one of the few shows that isn't ends up as neither moe(except perhaps for Koumei though but she acts just like a normal 14-years old girl) or ecchi crap. Expect no bouncy breasts and pantyshots in that show. Despite all that it also quite obvious that the show's main target audiences are 20-something men and this can be explain with marketing alone, as it may sell better as seinen than shoujo or josei, as it lacked of romance(and most likely bishies). However in the West, outside the internet in can be considered as a failure for lacking any 'commercial values'.
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:46   Link #78
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I've been a fan of Rance games since like, 14 years ago.

That's my answer.
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Old 2012-06-25, 08:48   Link #79
Chaos2Frozen
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Easy there chief. I don't think the distinction is as black and white as you insinuate it to be (Bakemonogatari comes to mind). However, even if a label can match a show, if there's a better way to describe the series then I'll use another classification instead.

Of course there's always the caveat of something not really belonging to any one genre but how many writers can actually pull that off?
Right but for simplicity sake, humor me Or better yet, I'm open to your suggestions on how to label them more accurately to avoid further misunderstandings

In any case, with a title like [Harem Vs. "All Girls" Anime Debate] I don't think we're aiming for political correctness here
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Old 2012-06-25, 09:03   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Right but for simplicity sake, humor me Or better yet, I'm open to your suggestions on how to label them more accurately to avoid further misunderstandings

In any case, with a title like [Harem Vs. "All Girls" Anime Debate] I don't think we're aiming for political correctness here
Opening the possibility for discussion while claiming there isn't any partisanship. Which office would you like to run for?

More seriously, I suggest people read Iono the Fanatics. Yuri harem shenanigans will make a lot of the perspectives on "Harem" and "All Girls" titles asplode.
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