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Old 2012-06-24, 19:19   Link #961
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I actually knew that beforehand, but that just makes the new season worse in my eyes. Digimon changed its plans pretty fast when more episodes were announced. Why couldn't Korra?
Because Digimon is an anime, Korra is not. We are definitely talking about different production schedules here.

Nick also wanted a self contained story for each season this time not a long story like Avatar.

To explain this further they are almost done storyboarding for series 2 but we won't be seeing the series anytime soon. These things take time.
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Old 2012-06-24, 19:35   Link #962
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I think the only twist we saw that I really came to truly dislike were the circumstances behind Korra's sudden ability to airbend for the first time. Even though the plot established the fact that she trained enough to get down the basic foundation for airbending, we were lead to believe that to perform airbending techniques requires one to draw upon a more peaceful, calm, and serene state of mind. Korra on the other hand, was in a tight spot and she looked desperate and scared. So it was hard to understand why Korra was able to suddenly discover her first airbending technique during a circumstance where her present state of mind shouldn't have allowed her to do so at all. So to this extent, I kind of agree with Kaijo. It could've been handled a little better.

I know Aang was fully capable of using airbending techniques in similar situations all the time, but as a master air bender, at least Aang was familiar with the feelings and the mental state of mind he needs to tap into to airbend on a moments notice, regardless of the situation. Korra didn't have that advantage during her fight with Amon.

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Old 2012-06-24, 19:49   Link #963
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Because Digimon is an anime, Korra is not. We are definitely talking about different production schedules here.

Nick also wanted a self contained story for each season this time not a long story like Avatar.

To explain this further they are almost done storyboarding for series 2 but we won't be seeing the series anytime soon. These things take time.
Oh right, I forgot about the production schedule differences. The fact that there's a second season still makes things worse though. There was nothing in the finale that made me want a second season, the same way Shymalan's Last Airbender movie made me not want sequels to that abomination. I'll probably still see it though.
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Old 2012-06-24, 19:57   Link #964
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Oh right, I forgot about the production schedule differences. The fact that there's a second season still makes things worse though. There was nothing in the finale that made me want a second season, the same way Shymalan's Last Airbender movie made me not want sequels to that abomination. I'll probably still see it though.
Just to be clear I am definitely not defending the writing of the series at all. I was disappointed too. Even as a self contained story I felt Korra's writing was weak. And while I can argue they might have done better with more episodes, there are plenty of short anime series that do much better than Korra with the same number of episodes in my opinion.

I was only explaining why everything was wrapped up in the end, not that I felt things were wrapped up well.
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Old 2012-06-24, 20:10   Link #965
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I actually knew that beforehand, but that just makes the new season worse in my eyes. Digimon changed its plans pretty fast when more episodes were announced. Why couldn't Korra?
Because American audiences prob prefer a shorter arc with resolution. Not too many people prob want to put the time in for 3 seasons for everything to resolve.

Plus, who wants to wait 6 months to resolve a cliffhanger? I'm in a club that didn't want to wait 2 weeks for the next disc of a title to watch.
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Old 2012-06-24, 20:47   Link #966
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I think the only twist we saw that I really came to truly dislike were the circumstances behind Korra's sudden ability to airbend for the first time. Even though the plot established the fact that she trained enough to get down the basic foundation for airbending, we were lead to believe that to perform airbending techniques requires one to draw upon a more peaceful, calm, and serene state of mind. Korra on the other hand, was in a tight spot and she looked desperate and scared. So it was hard to understand why Korra was able to suddenly discover her first airbending technique during a circumstance where her present state of mind shouldn't have allowed her to do so at all. So to this extent, I kind of agree with Kaijo. It could've been handled a little better.

I know Aang was fully capable of using airbending techniques in similar situations all the time, but as a master air bender, at least Aang was familiar with the feelings and the mental state of mind he needs to tap into to airbend on a moments notice, regardless of the situation. Korra didn't have that advantage during her fight with Amon.
Nicely pointed out.
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Old 2012-06-25, 00:15   Link #967
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Originally Posted by fanty View Post
Unanswered questions are unanswered questions no matter how much opinion you inject into the matter. Same thing for asspulls.
Thank you for saying in two short sentences, what I tried to say with several paragraphs, heh.

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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Because American audiences prob prefer a shorter arc with resolution. Not too many people prob want to put the time in for 3 seasons for everything to resolve.

Plus, who wants to wait 6 months to resolve a cliffhanger? I'm in a club that didn't want to wait 2 weeks for the next disc of a title to watch.
The first avatar series was 3 seasons, and gained a ton of popularity despite that. I think you underestimate what audiences will sit through to see resolution... see: Lost, X-Files, etc. American audiences are more than willing to keep watching, if the show holds their interest. Most sci fi and drama shows tend to have breaks between seasons, when the previous season ended on a cliffhanger. Audiences would still tune back in, 6 or 12 months later, to see how the season finale cliffhanger was resolved.

Now, if they only had approval for 12 episodes, I can partially understand why they might have had pacing issues. But usually any show that does real well, a network is willing to let keep going. At the very least, Nikelodeon should have been willing to get another season of 20 episodes. I say this without knowing how negotiations went behind closed doors; it just feels odd to me that the writers wouldn't have had the option for more episodes to better flesh out and pace the series.

Then again, someone mentioned that most of the writing staff of the first series wasn't around, so....
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Old 2012-06-25, 06:32   Link #968
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They could have done well with the amount of episodes they had if they had chopped the romance.
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Old 2012-06-25, 10:38   Link #969
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Oh right, I forgot about the production schedule differences. The fact that there's a second season still makes things worse though. There was nothing in the finale that made me want a second season, the same way Shymalan's Last Airbender movie made me not want sequels to that abomination. I'll probably still see it though.
I disagree. The avatar is supposed to be the mediator of the spirit and physical worlds. How likely is it that the greatest conflicts for both avatars we've met are dealt with during the very early parts of their life? (well, for Aang technically he's old, but you know what I mean lol). I like that Amon's story is over, and I'd like to see a somewhat-appreciable timeskip with a whole new conflict. That way we can see more of the deeds of "Avatar Korra." Also, I know it's a kid's show, but if they timeskipped to an adult, married Korra, maybe with kids and some elder-style wisdom, I'd be all for that. The avatar stories need not all be coming-of-age tales.
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Old 2012-06-25, 11:21   Link #970
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I think the biggest problem with the finale is the sheer wasted potential. I'll chime in with everyone and say this was a big disappointment and needed more episodes to flesh it out. There were some really great twists in concept but few were handled well. Korra being able to airbend after losing her other bending powers was a great idea but wasn't executed well. Korra learning how to reverse Amon's doing by achieving the avatar state was the logical conclusion but was pretty much shoved into the final minutes with little thought. Amon's back story was pretty well thought out but his conclusion with his brother was far too sudden and needed more expansion.

Another massive problem lies with scale of the epic. Aang was fighting against an entire nation that was close to taking over the world, and Aang's adventures featured him travelling all across the world. In contrast, Amon's Equalist revolution was confined to a single city which is where most of the events take place, which is an incredible drop down.

And yeah...the romance wasn't great either.
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Old 2012-06-25, 11:21   Link #971
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Wasn't Book 1 also about her coming of age with her airbending as a sign her finally growing up? They even had Mako mature somewhat by letting Asami down(He kinda sucked at that but, eh. It's Mako) and finally settling that he loved Korra and that it wasn't right to stay with Asami and use Korra as a safety net in case Asami dumped him. I'm guessing the whole love triangle thing was also meant to represent that the supposedly perfect Mako was afraid of something as simple of being dumped by either girl. Though to be fair he didn't understand his feelings for Korra until after he was indebted to Asami's father and was dating her.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:15   Link #972
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Honestly, besides the pulpy ending and overall bad pacing, my biggest complaint in the last episode was Iroh the Seconds ability to fly a plane. Where did that come from? You can't just sit in a plane and know how to fly.
This is no stretch at all of common ordinary phenomenon. Flying an airplane is so simple that a 10 year old could do it, so why should a technically trained military officer have any problems even if he was unfamiliar with the theory behind the contraption. The reason that pilots get paid the big money is to land the plane and passengers in one piece, which Iroh never had any intention of doing.

Why is it a law in anime that if a couple starts dating that they must be tied together for the next 75 years when IRL some high school girls can change boyfriends every month before finding somebody they really like like? Asami is smart, brave, beautiful, loyal and more technically competent than the rest of the team put together. But face it, she was slumming, rebelling against her father before she had a good reason to do so by going out with a street-rat pro athlete. I think she may have developed feelings for Mako, but the real bummer is that nobody ever told her "no" before. Her next ship should be a luxury liner. Iroh II is a better fit for her in talent, class, lifestyle and they would look so good together in the society column. I think the dumpster stew may have opened her eyes to the differences in life experiences between her and Mako.

I also disagree with the nitpicking about the hostages and awakening air bending. When Tenzin flew off with his family, did anyone think "Well, they are safe now. Amon will never try to follow them." Even before we were certain Amon was not Bumi or Asami or Tarloc, it was obvious Aang's family was a target. Yes, for narrative value you could have shown a scene where Tenzin's cabin in the mountains was surrounded by chi blockers, but the shock of the reveal of the hostages was much more effective.

As for airbending, it is a nearly universal theme that new powers awaken during times of danger, from Aang's earthbending to Pokemon evolutions. This is only an "asspull" if something appears which the hero has never worked for. Korra indeed trained hard (mostly offscreen) to obtain airbending. She knew the forms better than Aang did when Katara started teaching him waterbending. I'll even contend (with no evidence) that Korra was only able to access airbending once she was not able to fall back on her normal bending styles.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:54   Link #973
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Nicely pointed out.
Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
As for airbending, it is a nearly universal theme that new powers awaken during times of danger, from Aang's earthbending to Pokemon evolutions. This is only an "asspull" if something appears which the hero has never worked for. Korra indeed trained hard (mostly offscreen) to obtain airbending. She knew the forms better than Aang did when Katara started teaching him waterbending. I'll even contend (with no evidence) that Korra was only able to access airbending once she was not able to fall back on her normal bending styles.
It may be a universal theme to a degree, but if done right, it should still be explainable. In Aang's case, he discovered his first earthbending technique *immediately* after enduring a couple of ordeals that put him in the proper mental state of mind to earthbend (as Toph made Aang realize). The ordeals in question pushed Aang to develop the mental fortitude necessary to man-up and stand-up against a beast and (more importantly) Toph. Once he could do that, he could earthbend. This is where the circumstances between Korra and Aang differ. There was nothing about the predicament she was in that would make it believable for her to be in the correct state of mind to discover and unlock an airbending technique for the first time. Fear, desperation, hopelessness, anger-- all of these are emotions we're lead to believe she felt. And though these types of emotions are where hidden abilities tend to reveal themselves for the first time in plenty of other fictional works, the circumstances in this situation don't make things as plausible. Because the emotions she had to have felt are all supposed to be counter-productive to using the power she discovered.
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Old 2012-06-25, 14:18   Link #974
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Another massive problem lies with scale of the epic. Aang was fighting against an entire nation that was close to taking over the world, and Aang's adventures featured him travelling all across the world. In contrast, Amon's Equalist revolution was confined to a single city which is where most of the events take place, which is an incredible drop down.
I felt the creators were striving for a story about people, in which case, the small scale of the 'adventure' was justified. Specifically, Book 1 (I forget which element it was. Air?), is really the story of Korra and Amon. They are the two most heavily featured characters (even when Amon is physically absent, his presence is felt throughout the series) and they are given the most definition. There struggle, however ill-defined and partially meaningless at times (there is definitely wasted potential in Amon being a bender. While the idea behind bloodbending was justifiable, the fact that Amon was a bender really weakened his entire story.), was the central focus of the series.

Consequently, since we have a more limited scope, the intimate nature of the characters rose to prominence, and the ideology of what was being fought over became important (one of the flaws of the first series was the lack of ambiguity for the Fire Nations actions; they were simply evil (or at least the leaders were) for no real reason other than they could be).

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And yeah...the romance wasn't great either.
I did not mind the idea of the romance, rather I found the execution to be very poor and not very well thought out. Mako and Bolin started out as interesting characters. I was very interested in hearing about their years living on the streets, how/where they lived, what they did, who trained them, and what kind of men they could become. But, besides their introductory episodes, they remained nebulous throughout the series, and, especially in Mako's case, ultimately uninteresting.
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Old 2012-06-25, 14:34   Link #975
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While the scope of "Korra" was much narrower, I actually found the first series to be much more "about people" and Korra much more about premise. The characters in A:TLA were much more interesting and relatable for me, and the ones in Korra basically came off as plot drivers more than people.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:15   Link #976
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While the scope of "Korra" was much narrower, I actually found the first series to be much more "about people" and Korra much more about premise.
It's the last 15 minutes that really mess things up. Until those last minutes, I read most of the series as being about Korra and her fears (fear of being irrelevant in a new age; fear of not begin a good Avatar; fear of not finding someone to love; fear of losing her main personal identifying quality - being the Avatar; fear of Amon; etc), but since none of these fears were really addressed in the finale (she never really overcame her fears), it's hard to argue that the show wasn't simply about premise. So, I will concede the point.

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The characters in A:TLA were much more interesting and relatable for me, and the ones in Korra basically came off as plot drivers more than people.
I definitely agree that, over time, the characters of Last Airbender were more interesting. But, just looking at the first 12 episodes side-by-side, besides Aang, and to a lesser extent Katara and Zuko, the characters in Last Airbender weren't particularly interesting. Similarly, besides Korra, and to a lesser extent Tenzin and Tarrlok, the characters weren't that interesting.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:16   Link #977
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I think everything I wanted to say about the finale and counter arguments for various nitpicks and complaints have already been said lol. Overall, I think it's worth a watch. Not the greatest show/season, but the creativity behind it is very good.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:44   Link #978
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I felt the creators were striving for a story about people, in which case, the small scale of the 'adventure' was justified. Specifically, Book 1 (I forget which element it was. Air?), is really the story of Korra and Amon. They are the two most heavily featured characters (even when Amon is physically absent, his presence is felt throughout the series) and they are given the most definition. There struggle, however ill-defined and partially meaningless at times (there is definitely wasted potential in Amon being a bender. While the idea behind bloodbending was justifiable, the fact that Amon was a bender really weakened his entire story.), was the central focus of the series.

Consequently, since we have a more limited scope, the intimate nature of the characters rose to prominence, and the ideology of what was being fought over became important (one of the flaws of the first series was the lack of ambiguity for the Fire Nations actions; they were simply evil (or at least the leaders were) for no real reason other than they could be).
That's actually the biggest of the reason why I thought it was no good just being small scale. It didn't seem to me that the ideologies of what they were fighting for were confined to just Republic city and that's exactly what the characters in the show thought as well (and not just after the United Nations Forces came into the picture), so it seemed to me like the entire story was leading to something on a much larger scale.

Quote:
I did not mind the idea of the romance, rather I found the execution to be very poor and not very well thought out. Mako and Bolin started out as interesting characters. I was very interested in hearing about their years living on the streets, how/where they lived, what they did, who trained them, and what kind of men they could become. But, besides their introductory episodes, they remained nebulous throughout the series, and, especially in Mako's case, ultimately uninteresting.
Yeah this.

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While the scope of "Korra" was much narrower, I actually found the first series to be much more "about people" and Korra much more about premise. The characters in A:TLA were much more interesting and relatable for me, and the ones in Korra basically came off as plot drivers more than people.
and definitely this...
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Old 2012-06-25, 16:54   Link #979
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It's the last 15 minutes that really mess things up. Until those last minutes, I read most of the series as being about Korra and her fears (fear of being irrelevant in a new age; fear of not begin a good Avatar; fear of not finding someone to love; fear of losing her main personal identifying quality - being the Avatar; fear of Amon; etc), but since none of these fears were really addressed in the finale (she never really overcame her fears), it's hard to argue that the show wasn't simply about premise. So, I will concede the point.



I definitely agree that, over time, the characters of Last Airbender were more interesting. But, just looking at the first 12 episodes side-by-side, besides Aang, and to a lesser extent Katara and Zuko, the characters in Last Airbender weren't particularly interesting. Similarly, besides Korra, and to a lesser extent Tenzin and Tarrlok, the characters weren't that interesting.
I had no connection to the characters for the most part - including Korra - for the entire series, so the last 15 minutes were moot for me in that respect. YMMV. As well, YMMV with TLA - I found Aang, Katara, Zuko and even Sokka (who probably grew most as a character over the series) more interesting even in the first 12 eps, because there was a real sense that the show was about them, and they weren't just there to move the story.
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Old 2012-06-25, 18:10   Link #980
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I actually did like Korra's character and thought she showed a lot of promise. For one thing she was flawed (definitely more so than a lot of the female characters in the original series except maybe Katara).

She rushed into things without thinking them through, she relied on strength and thought her bending was the answer to everything, & she put so much worth on herself solely about being the Avatar.

Unfortunately at the end of the series I don't really see how any of this has changed. And if it did the series did a really horrible job at showing it.

I mean there were so many opportunities. If Korra could have found an answer to the conflict between benders/non-benders that didn't involve bending/fighting that would have been amazing.

Heck even at the end if Korra understood there is more that makes her important than her bending and if she said she will make do with her friends I might have been more accepting of Aang giving her back her powers, because at least I would have seen that she learned something.

And the series makes it out that Korra losing her bending is so horrible, when Asami just got dumped and had her father try to kill her. It certainly doesn't help matters.

It also really doesn't help when the rest of the characters are so flat. I am fine with Bolin being comic relief...but why can't he be more than that. All the characters in ATLA could make me laugh hysterically, but I cared about them all deeply as well & they all grew as characters.

Mako as I said previously is just the worst because the story doesn't even acknowledge that he is doing anything wrong. Instead he has two girls after him (and I can't even explain it) and somehow gets to be a great fighter.

And the whole romance thing with Korra/Mako/Asami was just horrible. It's just the worst possible love triangle. We don't even really see why Mako & Korra care about each other, before they jump into a triangle. Why not develop the relationships between the characters first and then start on a romance, but to start it off with a love triangle immediately is just silly.


I think the best part of the finale was the Amon/Tarrlok back story but I wish the story actually explained why Amon thought bending was evil. Tarrlok saying he must really believe what he says, is not enough for me personally.

And heck couldn't they at least explain how blood bending can take someone's bending away? That still makes no sense to me. But to Korra's credit I will say Amon was a much better villain than Ozai.



edit: And after that long rant they just announced another comic series focusing on Zuko's mom

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=39354
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