AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-25, 01:17   Link #29281
Wanderer
Goat
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Is that the nine hours video? Is there a tl;dr version?
  • ShKanon is impossible, because it contradicts red.
  • ShKanon is a deception by RK07, to fool everyone except those who can see through it.
  • Shannon and Kanon really are two different people.
  • Rosa is Beatrice.
  • Yasu doesn't actually exist. She's fiction.
  • Yasu is the personification of Rosa's guilt for killing Kuwadorian Beatrice.
  • Rosa's Yasu/Beatrice persona took on Shannon's love for Battler in Rosa's own mind. Shannon does not even know this.
  • Rosa carries out the ritualistic murders in order to resurrect the Kuwadorian Beatrice (KnownNoMore is not entirely sure to what extent Rosa literally believes this) and to get Battler's acknowledgement. She'll kill herself, too, when the time comes, or halt the murders if the epitaph is solved. Basically the motive is exactly the same as it is in the most basic of Yasu-culprit-theories.
  • George is creepily obsessed with Shannon.
  • George plans on killing everyone else and taking all the gold to build a life with Shannon.
  • George and Rosa work together, but inevitably end up betraying each other.
  • Nanjo is also an accomplice, but he doesn't ever kill anyone himself. He's in it for the money to save his sick grandchild. He is also inevitably betrayed.

That's it in a nutshell. I've seen everything he's released, so if there are any questions I can summarize his solutions and explanations for the various twilights, the logic error, the love duel, Will's answers, etc.
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 01:38   Link #29282
Drifloon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Battler knows about Sakutaro because he obtained Ange's memories when she died in EP4:

Quote:
From Ange's arms that held him, ............the very painful, sad, and lonely days, ......that his little sister, who had been left all alone, had gone through...flowed into Battler......
......Because he had been playing around in a place like this, .........his little sister who had been left all alone, .........had lived through such, ............painful days............!!
Drifloon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 01:47   Link #29283
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
[list][*]George plans on killing everyone else and taking all the gold to build a life with Shannon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuka0NK View Post
the 2nd game 4-6th Twilight doesn't work because George would never kill Shannon.
I suppose this means that according to the theory George killed Gohda and Shannon in EP2 and then killed himself?

That seems to contradict his very motive, unless he did so on the spur of the moment after a quarrel or it was an accident. Besides why would he care to make it look like a closed room at that point? It's not like that could have happened while Shannon was sitting in front of a dresser. Why George would place her there? And why would he choose to die in that slow and horrible way? Didn't he know that nobody is stupid enough to commit seppuku without a "helper" ready with a katana behind you?

And of course this just assumes that the explanation that Ryuukishi provided directly isn't relevant. In other words this is a prime example of "death of the author" interpretation.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 02:20   Link #29284
bigemperor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
here are the 9 hours video, it start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHMta4YbjSM

Is amazing how deep he goes to defend his theory even quoting interviews in which r7 practically confirms shkannon and disapproves all that he says but even that he explained absolutely everything, twilight by twilligt how why who ALL, although i don't agree with him is was very entertaining to see some of his videos, i haven't see ANY fan to give away so much time to explain everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
In other words this is a prime example of "death of the author" interpretation.
Thats the main reason why i don't like it, he even believe that everything r7 said in the interviews are tramps to misguide the readers and i believe everything r7 said in the interviews.
bigemperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 03:51   Link #29285
GuestSpeaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Ryu would probably appreciate the irony of that.
GuestSpeaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 04:45   Link #29286
Captain Bluebeard
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
[*]Rosa is Beatrice.[*]Rosa's Yasu/Beatrice persona took on Shannon's love for Battler in Rosa's own mind. Shannon does not even know this.[*]Rosa carries out the ritualistic murders in order to resurrect the Kuwadorian Beatrice (KnownNoMore is not entirely sure to what extent Rosa literally believes this) and to get Battler's acknowledgement. She'll kill herself, too, when the time comes, or halt the murders if the epitaph is solved. Basically the motive is exactly the same as it is in the most basic of Yasu-culprit-theories.
The whole premise of this is so ridiculous that I don't know where to begin from...
If Yasu seemed far-fetched to most readers, then what would this.....In the first place, why the hell would Rosa want Battler's acknowldegment? I had watched the video in question some time ago, so pardon me if I'm wrong, but I think he argued that Rosa doesn't have romantic interest in Battler, but wants him to acknowledge her as a human being. I mean WTF man? Why would Rosa even.......care?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
And of course this just assumes that the explanation that Ryuukishi provided directly isn't relevant.
And it also assumes Ryukishi07 is a dick who would happily spend four years of his life writing complete bullcrap to mislead and trick a fandom which didn't even exist before Umineko was released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigemperor View Post
Is amazing how deep he goes to defend his theory even quoting interviews in which r7 practically confirms shkannon and disapproves all that he says but even that he explained absolutely everything, twilight by twilligt how why who ALL, although i don't agree with him is was very entertaining to see some of his videos, i haven't see ANY fan to give away so much time to explain everything.
I wouldn't say it's entertaining, it is rather a huge waste of time. Not that I have some kind of deep grudge against the guy, but making a nine hours video to explain a theory that's not even so complicated and fill in the spare time by saying the same thing a hundred times over and over again just makes one's mind foggy. Plus, he comes off as very bossy 'this might sound like blasphemy to fans of Umineko, but it's true, so if you disagree, fuck off and go play in your corner being wrong'.

There are many people, in this forum specifically, who have managed to put forward many theories, no less realistic than KnownNoMore's, in less than one page and without being 100% sure about something that's never going to get confirmed. Let's take Jan-Poo's missing candy theory for example. Of course, this was a joke theory and all, but it was fully supported as well as an actual theory would need to be, making much better use of our precious time. Why couldn't that guy do the same? Obviously because the nine hours have more prestige and plausibility.

Bottom line is, making a nine hour video analysis about a visual novel (even if it is DA UMINEKO) somehow seems to me like what a sore loser would do.

Quote:
Thats the main reason why i don't like it, he even believe that everything r7 said in the interviews are tramps to misguide the readers and i believe everything r7 said in the interviews.
I agree with you there. There are tons of red herrings and false hints in the entire Umineko, but Ryukishi07 never supported them in his interviews, rather, he just limited himself to nasty implies and dirty trollings, which is a different thing, provided that all of those were dispproven later on in the series.
__________________

It's tough to be blue...
Captain Bluebeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 04:52   Link #29287
haguruma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 30
Send a message via ICQ to haguruma Send a message via MSN to haguruma
What bothers me about the Rosa/George theory is that it basically stumbles at two places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
[list][*]Rosa's Yasu/Beatrice persona took on Shannon's love for Battler in Rosa's own mind. Shannon does not even know this.
If Shannon is not Yasu and therefore has no connection to the Beatrice's then why should Rosa take over her love for Battler? There is no indication for Rosa being motivated to do this at all, is there?!
Quote:
Rosa carries out the ritualistic murders in order to resurrect the Kuwadorian Beatrice (KnownNoMore is not entirely sure to what extent Rosa literally believes this) and to get Battler's acknowledgement. She'll kill herself, too, when the time comes, or halt the murders if the epitaph is solved. Basically the motive is exactly the same as it is in the most basic of Yasu-culprit-theories.
Then what exactly was the whole finale of EP2 about in his theory?!
Rosa basically tells us that there is someone named Beatrice on the island with whom she had at least some contact during those two days and who she is angry at for apparently not showing up at an appointed time or place. And what about the escape with Maria? Is this all just due to "the crazies"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan View Post
Another possibility is that everything to do with Sakutarou and Maria is completely fictionalized. This includes Alliance's 1998 scenes, the "Greatest Mom ever!" scenes. This destroys a lot of characterization.
I think that is something that hinders many of the readers when talking about Umineko. Dividing it into fiction and reality isn't that easy I'd say...I would go as far as saying that nothing is so fictional that it is actually impossible, it's rather to be understood in terms of PROBABILITY. Everything that we are told is equally "true" in a way, it is simply just not always reality.
The scenes in 1998 are not necessarily fictional depictions given to the people of 1998 by an author, but given to us by an author. There are so many narrative layers in Umineko that saying "it's fictional therefore it does not count towards the character" is the wrong approach I'd say.
Rosa is actually the best character to show this. We have two completely conflicting ways of depictions depending on who is telling and when we are told about it. This does not make one depiction a lie, we simply have to count together the different instances and create a bigger picture from it. Rosa is the woman who went crazy over finding the gold, the woman who wanted to sacrifice herself for her daughter, the woman who hated her daughter, the woman who loved her daughter...everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker View Post
Ryu would probably appreciate the irony of that.
It's basically a little bit of EP3-4 Battler combined with Erika
haguruma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 05:39   Link #29288
Asuka0NK
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear people who disagree with the Rosa/George Theory. I have gone against so many people who defended this theory while I defended mine and finally people who I can agree with. I love this forum so much. I've hated the theory since I first found out about it because he didn't seem to understand the Red. It is not mean't to be taken at face value. It is mean't to be bent and try to make sense of what it means. I do however believe in ShKanon and I don't really know how people feel about it but I will defend it till the day I die.

To Driftloon. We were talking about the Prime world not the fictional world.
__________________
Asuka0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 06:35   Link #29289
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
Bottom line is, making a nine hour video analysis about a visual novel (even if it is DA UMINEKO) somehow seems to me like what a sore loser would do.
This is actually what I would expect from a con artist, a conspiracy theorist or a religious sect missionary.
I don't mean to say that Knownomore is a con artist or that he even consciously used the same underhanded technique to make his point (I don't know). But the use of fact bombing and prolongued rhetoric with redundant repetions, introductions and selective quotations are all things that are abundantly used by the aforementioned people. It's a very well known strategy.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 07:02   Link #29290
Captain Bluebeard
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
I don't think he's using any of those techniques (consciously, at least), he's just trying way too hard to sound cool, using diagrams, pictures and stuff. But what you're saying is very interesting, since the way he puts it make him look an awful lot like a conspiracy theorist, but I guess he actually is one since he's exposing the dark conspiracy of Ryukishi07's deception, finally baring him in front of the world for the evil puppet muster he really is, *cacklecackle*.

Oh, but in the beggining of his nine hour analysis he promises (or threatens?) to upload a religion/atheist video very soon, so...stay tunned. The guy has also uploaded a video called 'Denying the desirability of religion'. I mean, okay man, we get it, you're very smart and you've got a great outlook in life, stop trying to shove it down everyone else's ass through YouTube.
__________________

It's tough to be blue...
Captain Bluebeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 07:35   Link #29291
GuestSpeaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
dirty trollings
Having only read his interviews post-knowing answers, I can't actually really appreciate or recognise where trolls. Got any good examples?

Quote:
Rosa is the woman who went crazy over finding the gold
I don't remember that OR the bit with her waiting to meet Beatrice at a specific point and time, I really need to reread ep 2.....
GuestSpeaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 10:24   Link #29292
Wanderer
Goat
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I suppose this means that according to the theory George killed Gohda and Shannon in EP2 and then killed himself?

That seems to contradict his very motive, unless he did so on the spur of the moment after a quarrel or it was an accident. Besides why would he care to make it look like a closed room at that point? It's not like that could have happened while Shannon was sitting in front of a dresser. Why George would place her there? And why would he choose to die in that slow and horrible way? Didn't he know that nobody is stupid enough to commit seppuku without a "helper" ready with a katana behind you?
He has the most trouble with this one, and with Kanon's death in EP1. For this one, he presents 3 possibilities:

1) The first is really awful- Shannon ended up learning about what George was doing and they got into a struggle (which George didn't want, obviously), killing each other simultaneously (with letter openers!).
2) The second is just like the first, except that George won the fight and killed Shannon (again, not what he wanted, and again, with a letter opener to the skull) then tried to fake his own death by faking the wound and using a "fake death drug", except that Rosa had already arranged for that drug to be poisoned so he actually died.
3) The third possibility is that Rosa actually committed the murders herself. When Genji knocked, it woke Battler from a nap, so it's possible Rosa, who had all the master keys, was off murdering while Battler was asleep. Best of the three, but it still doesn't jive well with what Will said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
The whole premise of this is so ridiculous that I don't know where to begin from...
If Yasu seemed far-fetched to most readers, then what would this.....In the first place, why the hell would Rosa want Battler's acknowldegment? I had watched the video in question some time ago, so pardon me if I'm wrong, but I think he argued that Rosa doesn't have romantic interest in Battler, but wants him to acknowledge her as a human being. I mean WTF man? Why would Rosa even.......care?
Indeed. His version of Rosa is even more batshit crazy than Yasu is in "the official explanation". Although you have to admit that Rosa shows more signs of mental instability than any other possible culprit. Certainly she shows a lot more signs of mental problems than Kanon and Shannon do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
Obviously because the nine hours have more prestige and plausibility.
I honestly think he just likes to be clear and thorough. But yeah he takes things to a level far beyond what is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
If Shannon is not Yasu and therefore has no connection to the Beatrice's then why should Rosa take over her love for Battler? There is no indication for Rosa being motivated to do this at all, is there?!
Not much, no. It's really all about psychological issues she got from getting Beatrice II killed. IIRC she used the idea of Yasu to try to "resurrect" Beatrice (II) and used Shannon as a kind of real life focal point for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Then what exactly was the whole finale of EP2 about in his theory?!
Rosa basically tells us that there is someone named Beatrice on the island with whom she had at least some contact during those two days and who she is angry at for apparently not showing up at an appointed time or place. And what about the escape with Maria? Is this all just due to "the crazies"?
It's basically the same kind of thing as when Shannon or Kanon battle Beatrice. It's metaphor, or something, where Rosa's original self is betrayed by her Beatrice self.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuka0NK View Post
I have gone against so many people who defended this theory while I defended mine and finally people who I can agree with.
Really? I never thought he had that many supporters. Where are they?
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 12:31   Link #29293
Asuka0NK
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Youtube mainly like whenever I post anything even remotely ShKanon I always get one of his supporters saying to me "SHKANON ISNT RAEL IT IS A LIE BY RYUKUSHI07 DUMBASSSSSSSSSSS!!! JST WATCH KNOWNOMORES VID TO NOW TRUTH!!!" of course I am exaggerating this but you get the point. I just really hate people telling me my theory is wrong when they never even took the time to actually make a theory and just blindly obeyed someone telling them what the answer so they are huge hypocrites.
__________________
Asuka0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 12:37   Link #29294
Drifloon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Oh, but in the beggining of his nine hour analysis he promises (or threatens?) to upload a religion/atheist video very soon, so...stay tunned. The guy has also uploaded a video called 'Denying the desirability of religion'. I mean, okay man, we get it, you're very smart and you've got a great outlook in life, stop trying to shove it down everyone else's ass through YouTube.
It's pretty ironic, he's obviously spent a huge amount of time on Umineko but its central message of not denying other people's beliefs, however irrational, as long as they're doing nothing to harm anyone else seems to have completely escaped him, doesn't it? I guess he just holds Ctrl through those scenes since they're just useless trolling that's irrelevant to the mystery.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise this guy really is like Erika. He can't handle just proposing his own theory and letting the Shkanon believers keep theirs, he has to actually say that Shkanon is a lie and present "evidence" for it (none of which actually disproves it in a convincing way, and all of which is approximately as twisted as Erika's Natsuhi culprit arguments). And from what I understand, his videos on religion are more or less equivalent to Erika crushing Maria's dreams in the name of truth.
Drifloon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:09   Link #29295
Lady_Bernkastel
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 22
I'm going over theories, Ryu's answer, EPs, etc... and there's something I don't understand about the shkanon theory.
*I'll treat Yasu as a male for now.. instead of writing he\she everytime (lazy... lol).

one day Yasu 'created' the shannon personality on 1976 (the year he arrived at the mansion and started working). I guess that on some point, when he wanted the Shannon personality to actually 'interact' with other people, he also changed his looks and not just used the name Shannon.
Then the thing I don't get is - what, since then, everyone who lived in 1976 and knew Yasu as Yasu (e.g. Genji and more servants) just forgot about that kid ever existing? like, *poof* he just disappeared and there's a Shannon girl in the mansion?

Something doesn't make sense to me... Maybe there's something I just didn't get right.
anyone?
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic92585_4.gif
Lady_Bernkastel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:20   Link #29296
RandomAvatarFan
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Yeah, I'm sorry, but once you start arguing about religion you become nothing but a douche just trying to pick a fight. And yes, I have started seeing the "You are wrong, watch KnownNoMore!" people.

We can all build our own theories. We can all disagree with each other for various reasons. We are also allowed to feel some degree of certainty in our theories. But since that certainty can never be 100%, we can't take a "my way or you're dumb" approach in arguing it.

Also, the post above is something I've struggled with too.

I think Kumasawa and Genji may have been "playing along", but as far as the rest go... maybe they were fooled like Battler was fooled into thinking they were two different people.
__________________

Without love this picture cannot be seen.
RandomAvatarFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:22   Link #29297
Asuka0NK
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Bernkastel View Post
I'm going over theories, Ryu's answer, EPs, etc... and there's something I don't understand about the shkanon theory.
*I'll treat Yasu as a male for now.. instead of writing he\she everytime (lazy... lol).

one day Yasu 'created' the shannon personality on 1976 (the year he arrived at the mansion and started working). I guess that on some point, when he wanted the Shannon personality to actually 'interact' with other people, he also changed his looks and not just used the name Shannon.
Then the thing I don't get is - what, since then, everyone who lived in 1976 and knew Yasu as Yasu (e.g. Genji and more servants) just forgot about that kid ever existing? like, *poof* he just disappeared and there's a Shannon girl in the mansion?

Something doesn't make sense to me... Maybe there's something I just didn't get right.
anyone?
I think that Shannon is the real Yasu. We never are told Yasu's servant name but because of this we can assume the her name is Shannon. So the Shannon we see before Beatrice is created is that perfect one while Yasu-Shannon or the real Shannon is the one we see in the story that is shy and clumsy. So pretty much Shannon to them has always been a clumsy person. It's hard to put in words but I think you will get the gist of what I'm saying. Let's just say Shannon is the real Yasu with a stuffed bra.
__________________
Asuka0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:27   Link #29298
Wanderer
Goat
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Bernkastel View Post
I'm going over theories, Ryu's answer, EPs, etc... and there's something I don't understand about the shkanon theory.
*I'll treat Yasu as a male for now.. instead of writing he\she everytime (lazy... lol).

one day Yasu 'created' the shannon personality on 1976 (the year he arrived at the mansion and started working). I guess that on some point, when he wanted the Shannon personality to actually 'interact' with other people, he also changed his looks and not just used the name Shannon.
Then the thing I don't get is - what, since then, everyone who lived in 1976 and knew Yasu as Yasu (e.g. Genji and more servants) just forgot about that kid ever existing? like, *poof* he just disappeared and there's a Shannon girl in the mansion?

Something doesn't make sense to me... Maybe there's something I just didn't get right.
anyone?
There's pretty much no doubt that Yasu was raised female, regardless of her original sex.

I tend to think that Yasu's real name was "Sayo Yasuda" with the blessed name of "Shannon". We learned that Shannon's (first) name was Sayo, in EP2 I think, and in EP7 we learned that Yasu's name was really a nickname from shortening her last name of "Yasuda" to "Yasu".

Basically, I tend to think that to the rest of the world "Yasu" and "Shannon" really are just two different names for the same person. "Shannon" to the young Yasu, though, was an ideal person she strived to be, and one day decided to let her human self become, while letting her Yasu self become a witch. But, again, to the outside observer it was always the same person (who perhaps just started to suddenly stop being so clumsy).
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:38   Link #29299
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
I'm siding with Wanderer here. It's likely that her name is Sayo Yasuda. Yet another one of those things that the reader really SHOULD know, since it's probably common knowledge to all the characters.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-25, 13:44   Link #29300
Lady_Bernkastel
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
There's pretty much no doubt that Yasu was raised female, regardless of her original sex.

I tend to think that Yasu's real name was "Sayo Yasuda" with the blessed name of "Shannon". We learned that Shannon's (first) name was Sayo, in EP2 I think, and in EP7 we learned that Yasu's name was really a nickname from shortening her last name of "Yasuda" to "Yasu".

Basically, I tend to think that to the rest of the world "Yasu" and "Shannon" really are just two different names for the same person. "Shannon" to the young Yasu, though, was an ideal person she strived to be, and one day decided to let her human self become, while letting her Yasu self become a witch. But, again, to the outside observer it was always the same person (who perhaps just started to suddenly stop being so clumsy).
oh! now it makes sense.. then, you mean Yasu always looked like Shannon does?
But how come people just completely stopped calling her Yasu one day? the scenes from 1976 showed that sometimes they called him by the name Yasu (if I remember correctly...), but on 1986 no one refers to her even *once* as Yasu. as if there's no trace for the name (which makes you doubt whether they are really connected).
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic92585_4.gif
Lady_Bernkastel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.